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Okay. I suppose that it is probably fine then.Re-reading the Hyoh vs Ken fight, I think it's also quite clear that Hyoh after obtaining his matouki and awakening the blood of Hokuto scales above Kaioh. Ken beat him casually at 30% power before lifting his seals
Upon obtaining his matouki, it's noted that Hyoh's is the same as Kaioh's, Kaioh was sure that Hyoh was superior to Ken and would kill him, despite calling Ken "a worthy opponent" a few pages prior. Hyoh then goes on to unlock the "infinite power" of the Hokuto main lineage, the same power that terrorises Kaioh, who claims that "no matter how strong I get, I'm afraid of that unlimited potential".
Ken low-diffs Matouki Hyoh while at 30%, being FTE to him and being able to send him flying with casual punches. When Hyoh unlocks his potential, he's stated and shown as being equal to 30% Ken, but he himself claims that Ken would have defeated him regardless.
Can somebody link to the visual evidence for this feat please?Also, like @Twellas said, we really should calc Souther's feat.
Souther creates a big hole in the clouds with his aura in the span of 1 pannel. This is what the clouds look likeCan somebody link to the visual evidence for this feat please?
Thank you.
Wait, so 30% pre-seals Kenshiro>Full Power Hyoh>Matouki Hyoh (not sure if the 30% to 100% multiplier is in effect here)>Restrained Kaioh=849.677 petatons.Re-reading the Hyoh vs Ken fight, I think it's also quite clear that Hyoh after obtaining his matouki and awakening the blood of Hokuto scales above Kaioh. Ken beat him casually at 30% power before lifting his seals
Upon obtaining his matouki, it's noted that Hyoh's is the same as Kaioh's, Kaioh was sure that Hyoh was superior to Ken and would kill him, despite calling Ken "a worthy opponent" a few pages prior. Hyoh then goes on to unlock the "infinite power" of the Hokuto main lineage, the same power that terrorises Kaioh, who claims that "no matter how strong I get, I'm afraid of that unlimited potential".
Ken low-diffs Matouki Hyoh while at 30%, being FTE to him and being able to send him flying with casual punches. When Hyoh unlocks his potential, he's stated and shown as being equal to 30% Ken, but he himself claims that Ken would have defeated him regardless.
I don't really think Kaioh was "restrained" at all during his first fight with Ken, and he was most definitely amped during the second fightPost-seals 30% Kenshiro matched a semi-serious Kaioh, when a heavily restrained Kaioh stomped 100% post-seals Kenshiro
IIRC, he was heavily restrained with the armor during the first fight, then he took off the armor and got a big buff, and then got an even bigger boost with his 100% multiplier.I don't really think Kaioh was "restrained" at all during his first fight with Ken, and he was most definitely amped during the second fight
nah, it's never stated or shown that he was restrained, if anything, he was amped, as I've already shown. In the second fight he got an amp due to the location, which was the place where his mother diedIIRC, he was heavily restrained with the armor during the first fight, then he took off the armor and got a big buff, and then got an even bigger boost with his 100% multiplier.
I think it's a flat amp, the same way Ken became stronger after he got Musou Tensei, he got stronger after unlocking the infinite potential, strong enough to low-diff a guy who scales relative to someone who stomped him while he was 100%, so I think it's fair to assume it's at least a 3x boost, which would also apply to Hyoh aswell.Also, would you say that Hyoh "unlocking the infinite potential of Hokuto" or whatever it said is similar to Tenryū Kokyū Hō?
1. First point makes sense.nah, it's never stated or shown that he was restrained, if anything, he was amped, as I've already shown. In the second fight he got an amp due to the location, which was the place where his mother died
I think it's a flat amp, the same way Ken became stronger after he got Musou Tensei, he got stronger after unlocking the infinite potential, strong enough to low-diff a guy who scales relative to someone who stomped him while he was 100%, so I think it's fair to assume it's at least a 3x boost, which would also apply to Hyoh aswell.
Even with the amp, Kaioh got kinda low-diffed by Ken in their second fight
I think I already explained that I don't agree with Kaioh or any non-Shinken Hokuto user having Tenryu Kokyu Oh.
30% Post-Awakening, pre-seals Ken>= Post-Awakening Hyoh, who's at least 3x> Matouki Hyoh who's=Kaioh>100% pre-seals, pre-awakening Ken who is 3x> 30% pre-seals, pre-awakening Ken who would still scale to the 849 petatons feat via tanking a matouki blast1. First point makes sense.
2. So 30% pre-seals Ken >= 100% Hyoh who is (10/3) times above 30% Hyoh who is >= Kaioh who is 849.677 petatons. Putting 30% pre-seals Ken at 2.832 exatons (since he upscales from that). 100% pre-seals Ken is 9.44 exatons, and 100% post-seals Ken is 31.4695 exatons (Moon level).
Wait, how do we know that it is 3 times?30% Post-Awakening, pre-seals Ken>= Post-Awakening Hyoh, who's at least 3x> Matouki Hyoh who's=Kaioh who is 849 petatons
Can we see it?I have a rough draft ready, and my re-done ends range from Island level to Country level depending upon timeframe and cloud height.
we know Ken's boost was at least 3x due to him being superior to matouki Hyoh (who is equal if not stronger than Kaioh) while at 30%, while before awakening his potential Kaioh was superior to his 100% form. What Hyoh went through is the same as Ken, so the boost should be equalWait, how do we know that it is 3 times?
I'll post it in a new sandbox eventually. Gimme a few minutes.Can we see it?
Also, where is the nuke feat you said Demon Mitch did for you?
Then shouldn't it just be at least 3.33x since it is (100%/30%), which comes out to 3.33x?we know Ken's boost was at least 3x due to him being superior to matouki Hyoh (who is equal if not stronger than Kaioh) while at 30%, while before awakening his potential Kaioh was superior to his 100% form. What Hyoh went through is the same as Ken, so the boost should be equal
it would be more, since Kaioh was stomping 100% Ken and 30% Ken was ragdolling Hyoh casuallyThen shouldn't it just be at least 3.33x since it is (100%/30%), which comes out to 3.33x?
Ok, it's just that you said 3x, which is lower than 3.33x and thus messes up the multiplier scaling.it would be more, since Kaioh was stomping 100% Ken and 30% Ken was ragdolling Hyoh casually
Some of it looks fine...but I'm not sure. I mean, there are multiple factors in Jasonsith's calcs that aren't here (never mind that the calc didn't include the split, which I checked and it would make the total high-end result about 163.68 teratons).Here's my new draft on the Raoh Cloud conundrum: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:KLOL506/RaohNewSandbox
Ah, the split.Some of it looks fine...but I'm not sure. I mean, there are multiple factors in Jasonsith's calcs that aren't here (never mind that the calc didn't include the split, which I checked and it would make the total high-end result about 163.68 teratons).
I think we need more opinions on this.
Don't worry, I checked, and by your 4000m high-end calc that brings it up to about 163.68 teratons (Large Country Level)Ah, the split.
That one's outta my expertise.
Basically I don't make my calc overtly complicated with ang-sizing because there's no need to. The hole in the cloud should give us everything we need. From there on it's basic pixel-scaling.Don't worry, I checked, and by your 4000m high-end calc that brings it up to about 163.68 teratons (Large Country Level)
Though other people should give their opinions since some things about this are...different from Jasonsith's calcs for this.
Let's see what the others think.Basically I don't make my calc overtly complicated with ang-sizing because there's no need to. The hole in the cloud should give us everything we need. From there on it's basic pixel-scaling.
1. Actually you may need to do some pixel-scaling on the distance between the cloud bottom to Raoh on the ground to check if the assumption is actually valid.Basically I don't make my calc overtly complicated with ang-sizing because there's no need to. The hole in the cloud should give us everything we need. From there on it's basic pixel-scaling.
Couldn't one just assume that the clouds are already well above 200-400 meters given that they are high enough to make skyscrapers look visually small in comparison? Also I fail to see how the distance between cloud bottom to Raoh would even affect the cloud thickness at this point.1. Actually you may need to do some pixel-scaling on the distance between the cloud bottom to Raoh on the ground to check if the assumption is actually valid.
1) there is no such thing as "restrained Kaioh", Kaioh doesn't have access to Tenry kokyu oh and he was explicitely shown and stated to be both amped above his normal levels and bloodlusted during his first fight with Ken3. Anyone reorganize the scaling chains please?
Scaling power values:1) there is no such thing as "restrained Kaioh", Kaioh doesn't have access to Tenry kokyu oh and he was explicitely shown and stated to be both amped above his normal levels and bloodlusted during his first fight with Ken
Pre-Seals, Pre-Awakening 30% Kenshiro=the Hokuto Ryuken statement, this is because he outright tanked a blast from Kaioh's Matouki, which was, in turn, stated to be able to perform the Multi-Continental feat
Kaioh>Pre-Seals, Pre-Awakening 100% Kenshiro, it's fairly self-explainatory, Kaioh stomped him
Hyoh with his Matouki>=Kaioh via reasons I've explained above
Pre-Seals, Post-Awakening 30% Kenshiro>Matouki Hyoh as I've shown above, which means that the Awakening procedure is at least a 3.3x boost to power, as Kenshiro went from being Weaker than Kaioh while at 100% to being superior to Hyoh, who is equal if not stronger than Kaioh, while at 30%
Post-Awakening Hyoh>Matouki Hyoh>=Kaioh, as Hyoh went through the same awakening as Ken, which means that he should have received the same boost
Pre-Seals, Post-Awakening 30% Ken>=Post-Awakening Hyoh
So, it ultimately goes like this
Pre-Seals, Pre-Awakening 30% Ken (Scales to the Multi-Continent statement)<3.3x<Pre-Seals, Pre-Awakening 100% Ken<Kaioh<=Matouki Hyoh<at least 3.3x<Post-Awakening Hyoh<=Pre-Seals, Post-Awakening 30% Ken
I cannot stress this enough1) there is no such thing as "restrained Kaioh", Kaioh doesn't have access to Tenry kokyu oh and he was explicitely shown and stated to be both amped above his normal levels and bloodlusted during his first fight with Ken
Are you sure? Because IIRC, during the 2nd fight, Kaioh Went 100% in his fight with Seals Lifted Kenshiro, who also went 100%.I cannot stress this enough
100% KAIOH DOESN'T EXIST, NEITHER DOES 30% KAIOH
Yes, I'm sure, during their second fight Kaioh was just amped due to the location in which the fight happened. And no, the armor is not a limiter, it's a way to keep his Matouki from just destroying everything around him, but it's never stated that it nerfs him.Are you sure? Because IIRC, during the 2nd fight, Kaioh Went 100% in his fight with Seals Lifted Kenshiro, who also went 100%.
And isn't his armor stated to be a power limiter?
I see. So would Kaioh only scale to 100% Kenshiro when he is in that certain place?Yes, I'm sure, during their second fight Kaioh was just amped due to the location in which the fight happened. And no, the armor is not a limiter, it's a way to keep his Matouki from just destroying everything around him, but it's never stated that it nerfs him.
Ken, Raoh, Toki and Kasumi are the only characters who are ever shown using Tenryu Kokyu Oh, there's no indication other schools of Hokuto can, nor is it ever shown
I don't really know how to scale Amped Kaioh to Ken, tbh. While Ken did seemingly go 100% and was taking damage, he was heavily suppressed, outright face-tanking everything Kaioh was throwing, once he got serious, he incapacitated him fairly casuallyI see. So would Kaioh only scale to 100% Kenshiro when he is in that certain place?
Also, is it safe to assume that Post Seals 100% Kasumi is also Moon Level due to being the same as Post Seals 100% Ken?
Anyone who scales to 30% First-Series Ken, 100% First-Series Ken, or 30% Post-Seals Ken will be High 6-A.So what are the new tiers going to be for all the characters?