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Fist of the North Star General CRT

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Also, I went back and checked, and turns out that assuming that it only took 1/220th of a second for the cloud split at 2100 meters, then the original calc was right and it was 3.11732 petatons, my mistake. That makes it Continent Level+, but IMO since Raoh did this near death with nearly no power, his 30% should definitely upscale to 4.435 petatons (baseline Multi-Continent Level), as should 30% Kenshiro.
 
Twellas said:
Re-reading the Hyoh vs Ken fight, I think it's also quite clear that Hyoh after obtaining his matouki and awakening the blood of Hokuto scales above Kaioh. Ken beat him casually at 30% power before lifting his seals

Upon obtaining his matouki, it's noted that Hyoh's is the same as Kaioh's, Kaioh was sure that Hyoh was superior to Ken and would kill him, despite calling Ken "a worthy opponent" a few pages prior. Hyoh then goes on to unlock the "infinite power" of the Hokuto main lineage, the same power that terrorises Kaioh, who claims that "no matter how strong I get, I'm afraid of that unlimited potential".
Ken low-diffs Matouki Hyoh while at 30%, being FTE to him and being able to send him flying with casual punches. When Hyoh unlocks his potential, he's stated and shown as being equal to 30% Ken, but he himself claims that Ken would have defeated him regardless.
Click to expand...
Okay. I suppose that it is probably fine then.
 
Twellas said:
Re-reading the Hyoh vs Ken fight, I think it's also quite clear that Hyoh after obtaining his matouki and awakening the blood of Hokuto scales above Kaioh. Ken beat him casually at 30% power before lifting his seals

Upon obtaining his matouki, it's noted that Hyoh's is the same as Kaioh's, Kaioh was sure that Hyoh was superior to Ken and would kill him, despite calling Ken "a worthy opponent" a few pages prior. Hyoh then goes on to unlock the "infinite power" of the Hokuto main lineage, the same power that terrorises Kaioh, who claims that "no matter how strong I get, I'm afraid of that unlimited potential".
Ken low-diffs Matouki Hyoh while at 30%, being FTE to him and being able to send him flying with casual punches. When Hyoh unlocks his potential, he's stated and shown as being equal to 30% Ken, but he himself claims that Ken would have defeated him regardless.
Click to expand...
Wait, so 30% pre-seals Kenshiro>Full Power Hyoh>Matouki Hyoh (not sure if the 30% to 100% multiplier is in effect here)>Restrained Kaioh=849.677 petatons.

If we don't assume that Hyoh unlocking full potential is the same as Tenryū Kokyū Hō (since I have no idea whether it is or isn't), then 30% Kenshiro pre-seals scales to 849.677 petatons, making 100% pre-seals Kenshiro 2.832 exatons, and making 100% Post-seals Kenshiro 9.4408 exatons if we assume that 100% post-seals Kenshiro=30% pre-seals Kenshiro.

Actually, why do we say that pre-seals 100% Kenshiro=Post-seals 30% Kenshiro. Post-seals 30% Kenshiro matched a semi-serious Kaioh, when a heavily restrained Kaioh stomped 100% post-seals Kenshiro. 30% Post-seals Kenshiro is clearly far stronger, although I don't know if we can determine a multiplier for it.
 
Eseseso said:
Post-seals 30% Kenshiro matched a semi-serious Kaioh, when a heavily restrained Kaioh stomped 100% post-seals Kenshiro
Click to expand...
I don't really think Kaioh was "restrained" at all during his first fight with Ken, and he was most definitely amped during the second fight
 
Twellas said:
I don't really think Kaioh was "restrained" at all during his first fight with Ken, and he was most definitely amped during the second fight
Click to expand...
IIRC, he was heavily restrained with the armor during the first fight, then he took off the armor and got a big buff, and then got an even bigger boost with his 100% multiplier.

30% Post-Seals Kenshiro is clearly above 100% pre-seals Kenshiro

Also, would you say that Hyoh "unlocking the infinite potential of Hokuto" or whatever it said is similar to Tenryū Kokyū Hō? After all, Kaioh himself did something similar to Tenryū Kokyū Hō against Ken.

If so, then full-power Hyoh (which would be 10/3 times above 30% Hyoh) would scale to 2.832 exatons, and 30% pre-seals Ken would be above him, which would make 100% Pre-seals Ken and 30% Post-seal Ken 9.44 exatons, and make 100% Post-seals Ken a whopping 31.47 exatons. If this is true, that is.

What do you think?
 
Eseseso said:
IIRC, he was heavily restrained with the armor during the first fight, then he took off the armor and got a big buff, and then got an even bigger boost with his 100% multiplier.
Click to expand...
nah, it's never stated or shown that he was restrained, if anything, he was amped, as I've already shown. In the second fight he got an amp due to the location, which was the place where his mother died
Eseseso said:
Also, would you say that Hyoh "unlocking the infinite potential of Hokuto" or whatever it said is similar to Tenryū Kokyū Hō?
Click to expand...
I think it's a flat amp, the same way Ken became stronger after he got Musou Tensei, he got stronger after unlocking the infinite potential, strong enough to low-diff a guy who scales relative to someone who stomped him while he was 100%, so I think it's fair to assume it's at least a 3x boost, which would also apply to Hyoh aswell.
Even with the amp, Kaioh got kinda low-diffed by Ken in their second fight

I think I already explained that I don't agree with Kaioh or any non-Shinken Hokuto user having Tenryu Kokyu Oh.
 
Twellas said:
nah, it's never stated or shown that he was restrained, if anything, he was amped, as I've already shown. In the second fight he got an amp due to the location, which was the place where his mother died

I think it's a flat amp, the same way Ken became stronger after he got Musou Tensei, he got stronger after unlocking the infinite potential, strong enough to low-diff a guy who scales relative to someone who stomped him while he was 100%, so I think it's fair to assume it's at least a 3x boost, which would also apply to Hyoh aswell.
Even with the amp, Kaioh got kinda low-diffed by Ken in their second fight

I think I already explained that I don't agree with Kaioh or any non-Shinken Hokuto user having Tenryu Kokyu Oh.
Click to expand...
1. First point makes sense.

2. So 30% pre-seals Ken >= 100% Hyoh who is (10/3) times above 30% Hyoh who is >= Kaioh who is 849.677 petatons. Putting 30% pre-seals Ken at 2.832 exatons (since he upscales from that). 100% pre-seals Ken is 9.44 exatons, and 100% post-seals Ken is 31.4695 exatons (Moon level).
 
I have a rough draft ready, and my re-done ends range from Island level to Country level depending upon timeframe and cloud height.
 
Eseseso said:
1. First point makes sense.

2. So 30% pre-seals Ken >= 100% Hyoh who is (10/3) times above 30% Hyoh who is >= Kaioh who is 849.677 petatons. Putting 30% pre-seals Ken at 2.832 exatons (since he upscales from that). 100% pre-seals Ken is 9.44 exatons, and 100% post-seals Ken is 31.4695 exatons (Moon level).
Click to expand...
30% Post-Awakening, pre-seals Ken>= Post-Awakening Hyoh, who's at least 3x> Matouki Hyoh who's=Kaioh>100% pre-seals, pre-awakening Ken who is 3x> 30% pre-seals, pre-awakening Ken who would still scale to the 849 petatons feat via tanking a matouki blast
 
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Twellas said:
30% Post-Awakening, pre-seals Ken>= Post-Awakening Hyoh, who's at least 3x> Matouki Hyoh who's=Kaioh who is 849 petatons
Click to expand...
Wait, how do we know that it is 3 times?

And by changing the multiplier for Hyoh from 3.33 to 3, that lowers 100% post-seals Ken to 28.322 exatons, yanking him down from Moon Level.
 
Eseseso said:
Wait, how do we know that it is 3 times?
Click to expand...
we know Ken's boost was at least 3x due to him being superior to matouki Hyoh (who is equal if not stronger than Kaioh) while at 30%, while before awakening his potential Kaioh was superior to his 100% form. What Hyoh went through is the same as Ken, so the boost should be equal
 
Isn't it weird how the nuke calc used to be the biggest FOTNS calc, and now it's not even important to scaling?
 
Twellas said:
we know Ken's boost was at least 3x due to him being superior to matouki Hyoh (who is equal if not stronger than Kaioh) while at 30%, while before awakening his potential Kaioh was superior to his 100% form. What Hyoh went through is the same as Ken, so the boost should be equal
Click to expand...
Then shouldn't it just be at least 3.33x since it is (100%/30%), which comes out to 3.33x?
 
Twellas said:
it would be more, since Kaioh was stomping 100% Ken and 30% Ken was ragdolling Hyoh casually
Click to expand...
Ok, it's just that you said 3x, which is lower than 3.33x and thus messes up the multiplier scaling.

Phew, Moon Level 100% Post-Seals Kenshiro is safe!
 
Eseseso said:
Some of it looks fine...but I'm not sure. I mean, there are multiple factors in Jasonsith's calcs that aren't here (never mind that the calc didn't include the split, which I checked and it would make the total high-end result about 163.68 teratons).

I think we need more opinions on this.
Click to expand...
Ah, the split.

That one's outta my expertise.
 
KLOL506 said:
Ah, the split.

That one's outta my expertise.
Click to expand...
Don't worry, I checked, and by your 4000m high-end calc that brings it up to about 163.68 teratons (Large Country Level)

Though other people should give their opinions since some things about this are...different from Jasonsith's calcs for this.
 
Eseseso said:
Don't worry, I checked, and by your 4000m high-end calc that brings it up to about 163.68 teratons (Large Country Level)

Though other people should give their opinions since some things about this are...different from Jasonsith's calcs for this.
Click to expand...
Basically I don't make my calc overtly complicated with ang-sizing because there's no need to. The hole in the cloud should give us everything we need. From there on it's basic pixel-scaling.
 
KLOL506 said:
Basically I don't make my calc overtly complicated with ang-sizing because there's no need to. The hole in the cloud should give us everything we need. From there on it's basic pixel-scaling.
Click to expand...
1. Actually you may need to do some pixel-scaling on the distance between the cloud bottom to Raoh on the ground to check if the assumption is actually valid.

Nothing can be approved unless queries are cleared.

2. Hokuto Ryuken statement applies to only restricted Kaioh?

3. Anyone reorganize the scaling chains please?
 
Jasonsith said:
1. Actually you may need to do some pixel-scaling on the distance between the cloud bottom to Raoh on the ground to check if the assumption is actually valid.
Click to expand...
Couldn't one just assume that the clouds are already well above 200-400 meters given that they are high enough to make skyscrapers look visually small in comparison? Also I fail to see how the distance between cloud bottom to Raoh would even affect the cloud thickness at this point.
 
KLOL506 and Jasonsith:

Thank you for helping out.
 
Jasonsith said:
3. Anyone reorganize the scaling chains please?
Click to expand...
1) there is no such thing as "restrained Kaioh", Kaioh doesn't have access to Tenry kokyu oh and he was explicitely shown and stated to be both amped above his normal levels and bloodlusted during his first fight with Ken

Pre-Seals, Pre-Awakening 30% Kenshiro=the Hokuto Ryuken statement, this is because he outright tanked a blast from Kaioh's Matouki, which was, in turn, stated to be able to perform the Multi-Continental feat

Kaioh>Pre-Seals, Pre-Awakening 100% Kenshiro, it's fairly self-explainatory, Kaioh stomped him

Hyoh with his Matouki>=Kaioh via reasons I've explained above

Pre-Seals, Post-Awakening 30% Kenshiro>Matouki Hyoh as I've shown above, which means that the Awakening procedure is at least a 3.3x boost to power, as Kenshiro went from being Weaker than Kaioh while at 100% to being superior to Hyoh, who is equal if not stronger than Kaioh, while at 30%

Post-Awakening Hyoh>Matouki Hyoh>=Kaioh, as Hyoh went through the same awakening as Ken, which means that he should have received the same boost

Pre-Seals, Post-Awakening 30% Ken>=Post-Awakening Hyoh

So, it ultimately goes like this

Pre-Seals, Pre-Awakening 30% Ken (Scales to the Multi-Continent statement)<3.3x<Pre-Seals, Pre-Awakening 100% Ken<Kaioh<=Matouki Hyoh<at least 3.3x<Post-Awakening Hyoh<=Pre-Seals, Post-Awakening 30% Ken
 
Twellas said:
1) there is no such thing as "restrained Kaioh", Kaioh doesn't have access to Tenry kokyu oh and he was explicitely shown and stated to be both amped above his normal levels and bloodlusted during his first fight with Ken

Pre-Seals, Pre-Awakening 30% Kenshiro=the Hokuto Ryuken statement, this is because he outright tanked a blast from Kaioh's Matouki, which was, in turn, stated to be able to perform the Multi-Continental feat

Kaioh>Pre-Seals, Pre-Awakening 100% Kenshiro, it's fairly self-explainatory, Kaioh stomped him

Hyoh with his Matouki>=Kaioh via reasons I've explained above

Pre-Seals, Post-Awakening 30% Kenshiro>Matouki Hyoh as I've shown above, which means that the Awakening procedure is at least a 3.3x boost to power, as Kenshiro went from being Weaker than Kaioh while at 100% to being superior to Hyoh, who is equal if not stronger than Kaioh, while at 30%

Post-Awakening Hyoh>Matouki Hyoh>=Kaioh, as Hyoh went through the same awakening as Ken, which means that he should have received the same boost

Pre-Seals, Post-Awakening 30% Ken>=Post-Awakening Hyoh

So, it ultimately goes like this

Pre-Seals, Pre-Awakening 30% Ken (Scales to the Multi-Continent statement)<3.3x<Pre-Seals, Pre-Awakening 100% Ken<Kaioh<=Matouki Hyoh<at least 3.3x<Post-Awakening Hyoh<=Pre-Seals, Post-Awakening 30% Ken
Click to expand...
Scaling power values:

849.677 petatons (Multi-Continent Level): Pre-Seals, Pre-Awakening 30% Ken

2.832 exatons (Multi-Continent Level): Pre-Seals, Pre-Awakening 100% Ken, Restrained Kaioh, Matouki Hyoh

9.44 exatons (Multi-Continent Level): Post-Awakening Hyoh, Pre-Seals Post-Awakening 30% Ken

31.4695 exatons (Moon Level): Post-Seals, Post Awakening 100% Ken, 100% Kaioh (IIRC, 100% Kaioh was either equal or not far behind 100% Ken)
 
Twellas said:
1) there is no such thing as "restrained Kaioh", Kaioh doesn't have access to Tenry kokyu oh and he was explicitely shown and stated to be both amped above his normal levels and bloodlusted during his first fight with Ken
Click to expand...
I cannot stress this enough

100% KAIOH DOESN'T EXIST, NEITHER DOES 30% KAIOH
 
Also, if the 1/220th of a second feat for Raoh with the clouds being 2100 feet above him is accepted (as done by Jasonsith), then since a virtually powerless Raoh did a 3.117 petaton feat (which is Continent Level+), it could be an excellent supporting feat for why Kenshiro at the start of the 2nd series is multi-continent (since he'd be scaling to a guy who did a petaton feat with a tiny % of power), and could also be used as a scaling chain for the first series.

30% Raoh would almost certainly upscale from this to be Baseline Multi-Continent Level (4.435 petatons), so 30% First Series Ken and 30% Raoh (and anyone who scales to them) would be 4.435 petatons, and 100% 1st series Ken and Raoh (and anyone who scales to them) would be at least 14.783 petatons.

That is, if we don't think 100% First-Series Ken scales to 30% Pre-Seals, Pre-Awakening 2nd-Series Ken. If he does, then 100% Ken and Raoh would be 849.677 petatons, while 30% Ken and Raoh would be 254.9 petatons.
 
Eseseso said:
Are you sure? Because IIRC, during the 2nd fight, Kaioh Went 100% in his fight with Seals Lifted Kenshiro, who also went 100%.

And isn't his armor stated to be a power limiter?
Click to expand...
Yes, I'm sure, during their second fight Kaioh was just amped due to the location in which the fight happened. And no, the armor is not a limiter, it's a way to keep his Matouki from just destroying everything around him, but it's never stated that it nerfs him.

Ken, Raoh, Toki and Kasumi are the only characters who are ever shown using Tenryu Kokyu Oh, there's no indication other schools of Hokuto can, nor is it ever shown
 
Twellas said:
Yes, I'm sure, during their second fight Kaioh was just amped due to the location in which the fight happened. And no, the armor is not a limiter, it's a way to keep his Matouki from just destroying everything around him, but it's never stated that it nerfs him.

Ken, Raoh, Toki and Kasumi are the only characters who are ever shown using Tenryu Kokyu Oh, there's no indication other schools of Hokuto can, nor is it ever shown
Click to expand...
I see. So would Kaioh only scale to 100% Kenshiro when he is in that certain place?

Also, is it safe to assume that Post Seals 100% Kasumi is also Moon Level due to being the same as Post Seals 100% Ken?
 
Eseseso said:
I see. So would Kaioh only scale to 100% Kenshiro when he is in that certain place?

Also, is it safe to assume that Post Seals 100% Kasumi is also Moon Level due to being the same as Post Seals 100% Ken?
Click to expand...
I don't really know how to scale Amped Kaioh to Ken, tbh. While Ken did seemingly go 100% and was taking damage, he was heavily suppressed, outright face-tanking everything Kaioh was throwing, once he got serious, he incapacitated him fairly casually

I also don't know what to make of Kasumi, there are a ton of statements across the board that imply that Ken surpassed Kasumi as soon as he got Musou Tensei and that he scales above Kasumi in general, but then there is a statement in REGENESIS according to which Kasumi is the strongest man of Hokuto and Ken is heavily implied to be a reincarnation of Kasumi
 
NotoriouSoda said:
So what are the new tiers going to be for all the characters?
Click to expand...
Anyone who scales to 30% First-Series Ken, 100% First-Series Ken, or 30% Post-Seals Ken will be High 6-A.

Jagi will probably only scale to the nuke feat, since Kenshiro roflstomped him, so depending on how that turns out he could be as low as a 6-C or only as high as a Low 6-B.

The only 5-C people will be 100% Post-Seals Ken and probably 100% Post-Seals Kasumi Kenshiro.
 
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