• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Fist of the North Star General CRT

Status
Not open for further replies.
What is the calculation basis for the 5-C statistics?
 
Antvasima said:
What is the calculation basis for the 5-C statistics?
Click to expand...
Using the scaling @Twellas made:

Pre-Seals, Pre-Awakening 30% Kenshiro=the Hokuto Ryuken statement, this is because he outright tanked a blast from Kaioh's Matouki, which was, in turn, stated to be able to perform the Multi-Continental feat

Kaioh>Pre-Seals, Pre-Awakening 100% Kenshiro, it's fairly self-explainatory, Kaioh stomped him

Hyoh with his Matouki>=Kaioh via reasons I've explained above

Pre-Seals, Post-Awakening 30% Kenshiro>Matouki Hyoh as I've shown above, which means that the Awakening procedure is at least a 3.3x boost to power, as Kenshiro went from being Weaker than Kaioh while at 100% to being superior to Hyoh, who is equal if not stronger than Kaioh, while at 30%

Post-Awakening Hyoh>Matouki Hyoh>=Kaioh, as Hyoh went through the same awakening as Ken, which means that he should have received the same boost

Pre-Seals, Post-Awakening 30% Ken>=Post-Awakening Hyoh

So, it ultimately goes like this

Pre-Seals, Pre-Awakening 30% Ken (Scales to the Multi-Continent statement)<3.3x<Pre-Seals, Pre-Awakening 100% Ken<Kaioh<=Matouki Hyoh<at least 3.3x<Post-Awakening Hyoh<=Pre-Seals, Post-Awakening 30% Ken

So, Pre-seals, Pre-Awakening 30% Ken = 849.677 petatons

Pre-Seals, Pre-Awakening 100% Ken = 2.832 exatons

Pre-Seals, Post-Awakening 30% Ken >= Post-Awakening Hyoh which is (10/3) times above Matoki Hyoh due to unlocking his full potential, putting it at 9.44 exatons.

Post-Seals, Post-Awakening 100% Ken = (10/3) times Post-Awakening 30% Ken, which equals 31.4695 exatons (Moon Level).

The only Moon Level people are Post-Awakening 100% Kenshiro and probably Post-Awakening 100% Kasumi Kenshiro. Just those 2.
 
Hmm. If you are just speculating about most of those numbers, it seems safer to just place him at "At least High 6-A, likely higher" instead.
 
Where are those multipliers derived from? We generally do not accept using them unless they are linear and stated outright for a series.
 
Antvasima said:
Where are those multipliers derived from? We generally do not accept using them unless they are linear and stated outright for a series.
Click to expand...
The only "debateable" one is for Hyoh's unlocking potential, and even then @Twellas has already stated why he believes it is a similar multiplier to Tenryu Kokyu Ho in terms of its power multiplier.
 
the Tenryu Kokyu Oh multiplier is already accepted and used on the wiki, and the Awakening multiplier is derived from it directly
 
Eseseso said:
The only "debateable" one is for Hyoh's unlocking potential, and even then @Twellas has already stated why he believes it is a similar multiplier to Tenryu Kokyu Ho in terms of its power multiplier.
Click to expand...
It's not even that "I believe" it's comparable to Tenryu, it's shown, Ken at 100% is weaker than Kaioh, then he gets the awakening boost and he's stronger than a guy who is equal to Kaioh while at 30%, it's extremely straight forward
 
Can somebody write a post with easy to understand (but sufficiently thorough) explanations for the multipliers, including exactly what all of them are based on, so I can call some other staff members to help take a look at this please?
 
Antvasima said:
Can somebody write a post with easy to understand (but sufficiently thorough) explanations for the multipliers, including exactly what all of them are based on, so I can call some other staff members to help take a look at this please?
Click to expand...
@Twellas can do a much better job of this than I can.
 
Antvasima said:
Can somebody write a post with easy to understand (but sufficiently thorough) explanations for the multipliers, including exactly what all of them are based on, so I can call some other staff members to help take a look at this please?
Click to expand...
Tenryu Kokyu Oh boosts Ken's power by 3.3 times, we know this is due to explicit statements from Ken himself that his base uses 30% of his power while Tenryu Kokyu Oh allows him to achieve 100%. This is already accepted by the wiki.

when it comes to the Awakening multiplier, it's directly derived from Tenryu Kokyu Oh: Ken fights Kaioh while at 100% and gets stomped
Hyoh is presented, and he's shown to be equal if not superior to Kaioh, he's stated to have the same aura as him and Kaioh considers him to be superior to post-awakening Kenshiro, who Kaioh himself deemed "a worthy opponent", now, while Kaioh is wrong in thinking so, it doesn't matter to our scaling, since the most important point is the fact that he considered himself to be relative to post-awakening Ken while he considers Hyoh to be decisely superior, meaning that Kaioh considers Hyoh to be at least as strong as himself.
Ken ragdolls Hyoh while using 30% of his power (We know for a fact that he's only using 30% because he has his shirt on, going Tenryu is consistently shown to bust it up)

TL;DR: Pre-Awakening 100% Kenshiro got stomped by Kaioh
Post-Awakening 30% Kenshiro stomped a guy equal to Kaioh

Seems like a very straight-forward multiplier, a direct application of an already consolidated multiplier

Now, Hyoh goes through the same process, we know it's exactly the same because we are told so, on top of Hyoh and Ken being blood brothers, as such, it's more than fair to assume that Hyoh received the same power boost due to it, after which, he's shown to be equal (if slightly weaker) to 30% Kenshiro (He doesn't have a shirt here, but only because one of Hyoh's attacks destroyed it, you can clearly see that he never powers up)

TL;DR: Hyoh's Awakening should grant him a boost equal to Ken's due to the process being the exact same
 
Twellas said:
Tenryu Kokyu Oh boosts Ken's power by 3.3 times, we know this is due to explicit statements from Ken himself that his base uses 30% of his power while Tenryu Kokyu Oh allows him to achieve 100%. This is already accepted by the wiki.

when it comes to the Awakening multiplier, it's directly derived from Tenryu Kokyu Oh: Ken fights Kaioh while at 100% and gets stomped
Hyoh is presented, and he's shown to be equal if not superior to Kaioh, he's stated to have the same aura as him and Kaioh considers him to be superior to post-awakening Kenshiro, who Kaioh himself deemed "a worthy opponent", now, while Kaioh is wrong in thinking so, it doesn't matter to our scaling, since the most important point is the fact that he considered himself to be relative to post-awakening Ken while he considers Hyoh to be decisely superior, meaning that Kaioh considers Hyoh to be at least as strong as himself.
Ken ragdolls Hyoh while using 30% of his power (We know for a fact that he's only using 30% because he has his shirt on, going Tenryu is consistently shown to bust it up)

TL;DR: Pre-Awakening 100% Kenshiro got stomped by Kaioh
Post-Awakening 30% Kenshiro stomped a guy equal to Kaioh

Seems like a very straight-forward multiplier, a direct application of an already consolidated multiplier

Now, Hyoh goes through the same process, we know it's exactly the same because we are told so, on top of Hyoh and Ken being blood brothers, as such, it's more than fair to assume that Hyoh received the same power boost due to it, after which, he's shown to be equal (if slightly weaker) to 30% Kenshiro (He doesn't have a shirt here, but only because one of Hyoh's attacks destroyed it, you can clearly see that he never powers up)

TL;DR: Hyoh's Awakening should grant him a boost equal to Ken's due to the process being the exact same
Click to expand...
@Promestein @SomebodyData @Dragonmasterxyz @Celestial_Pegasus @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Ogbunabali

Would any of you be willing to help evaluate this please?
 
And now after what @Twellas said, some scaling values:

849.677 petatons: Pre-Awakening 30% Ken

2.832 exatons (via 3.33x multiplier): Pre-Awakening 100% Ken, Kaioh, 30% Hyoh

9.44 exatons (via a 2nd 3.33x multiplier): Post-Awakening 30% Ken, 100% Hyoh

31.4695 exatons (via a 3rd 3.33x multiplier): Post-Seals 100% Ken


As for Raoh, he can either scale to pre-awakening Ken, or if we use the 2100 meter cloud-splitting calc that is 1/220th of a second, he can upscale from the 3.117 petaton result to be baseline multi-continent level at 30%. Or we can use both and put him at "At least High 6-A, likely higher"

Kasumi Kenshiro probably scales to Ken himself.
 
But the multipliers are stated in the story, and it doesn't make sense to keep a bunch of people at the same level (oh, sorry, "far higher than each other but with same power values") when there are clear reasons for there to be multipliers.

Isn't the speed for DBS characters just a bunch of stacked multipliers?
 
I trust Ogbunabali's sense of judgement regarding this.
 
I am not certain what our exact standards for this particular type of situation are, so it is best to wait for further information.
 
Antvasima said:
Do you have any information about this?
Click to expand...
Our policy on multiplier stacking is that the total increase that is happening after stacking, would require as much burden of proof.

For example, if you have an accepted multiplier of x5 and x10, and you want to stack them together to make it x50, then the burden of proof you need to prove such a number also becomes much higher.

If there is nothing to substantiate that the increase of x50 took place, then it wouldn't work. In DB's case, I think the argument was that since speed and AP are increased by the same amount, even though they have no speed feats, they had AP feats that backed up such increases nicely.
 
Okay. Thank you for the information. Do we have that policy written down anywhere? If not, we preferably should.
 
From the Multipliers page:

If multiple multipliers are to be stacked, that are used upon each other, the evidence for the end result is equal to the total multiplier applied to the best feat. That means that if, for example, a character has a times 10 multiplier and later on gets another times 50 multiplier, than the evidence necessary to use both multipliers to get a statistic, is like that of a times 500 multiplier, as the best feat would be increased by a factor of 500 in that case.

In regards to multiplier stacking one should also pay attention to whether a multiplier applies to the strength of the character without the other multipliers applied or with the other multipliers already applied.
 
Eseseso said:
Do you have any thoughts about this?
Click to expand...
For me to be able to give any thoughts, I would need:

1. The accepted multiplier.
2. The total multiplier that comes from stacking.
3. The base feat upon which the total multiplier is being used on.
4. And any evidence that can fulfill the burden of proof needed to accept the total multiplier.
 
AKM sama said:
For me to be able to give any thoughts, I would need:

1. The accepted multiplier.
2. The total multiplier that comes from stacking.
3. The base feat upon which the total multiplier is being used on.
4. And any evidence that can fulfill the burden of proof needed to accept the total multiplier.
Click to expand...
@Twellas can do a much better job with that than I can.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Lynieryz
[Hokuto No Ken] Martial Arts for Kenshiro
Replies
0
Views
426
Lynieryz
Lynieryz
Stefano4444
Fist Of The North Star Revision Part 2 (Scaling and Multipliers)
2 3 4
Replies
146
Views
9K
Hagane_no_Saiyajin
Hagane_no_Saiyajin
FoxySonicMaster108
Reid VS Kenshiro (Re:Zero VS Fist of the North Star) (7-7-2)
9 10 11
Replies
413
Views
29K
noninho
noninho
Eseseso
Kenshiro speed mega-upgrade
Replies
6
Views
2K
Jasonsith
Jasonsith
TheUnshakableOne
Does this suggest the speed of light has Infinite velocity in this verse?
Replies
10
Views
1K
Jaakor48
Back
Top