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Fissionism Ability Addition (Trying This Again!)

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Arnoldstone18 said:
Ant Sir, please you have to understand how this is important. This will solve a lot of issues.

Benefits

1. Further limiting texts without categories on profiles.
2. Further limiting the redundant use of "Durability Negation" in both AP section and P&A section, thus only limiting it to AP section where it is most commonly used.

I understand that a part of it is similar to duplication, but please acknoledge that splitting into unidentical parts also exist in fiction. And we can't ignore that. Have you seen my draft Sir?
Click to expand...
My apologies, but the issue, as DontTalk explained earlier, is that several of these abilities work based on very different premises. Undoing fusions, creating nuclear explosions, and cutting entities in half on a spiritual level are not really the same thing, so unless somebody can provide a very good definition of a defining mechanic, the page in question does not seem relevant to our purposes.
 
I mean

Agree: @KLOL506 (@Flashlight237 @Arnoldstone18 @Pikaman @Greatsage13th @XSOULOFCINDERX @Axxtentacle)

Disagree: @DontTalkDT @Antvasima

Don’t have an issue with: @DarkDragonMedeus @Confluctor

So we have 1 staff agreement, 2 staff who don’t have an issue with it, and 6 members who agree, vs 2 staff members against the proposition

I do not think it would be reflective of the wiki’s staff nor overall membership to reject the proposition based on the input that has currently been amassed
 
Well, with two bureaucrats against the suggested revision and one calc group member for it, it is currently extremely unlikely to be applied, but I can send a notification request to the rest of our administrators if you want to receive further input.
 
Antvasima said:
Well, with two bureaucrats against the suggested revision and one calc group member for it, it is currently extremely unlikely to be applied, but I can send a notification request to the rest of our administrators if you want to receive further input.
Click to expand...
That would be great, I don’t think 2 bureaucrats (not to discredit the fact they are extremely trusted, important and knowledgable members of the community) should overrule 9 other people, 3 of those staff, who either don’t have issues with the addition or outright approve it, there’s only so much extra weight you can give to certain votes (again, not to go against the importance of staff and bureaucrat opinion in discussions like these, which is always going to be of extreme importance and influence)
 
Antvasima said:
My apologies, but the issue, as DontTalk explained earlier, is that several of these abilities work based on very different premises. Undoing fusions, creating nuclear explosions, and cutting entities in half on a spiritual level are not really the same thing, so unless somebody can provide a very good definition of a defining mechanic, the page in question does not seem relevant to our purposes.
Click to expand...

The premises all revolve around the concept of fission.

PREMISES THAT REVOLVE AROUND FISSION

- Undoing fusions ✅ -fission

- creating nuclear explosions ❌- a mere byproduct of fission, it’s not fission itself. So this will not be a criteria of fission. Splitting atoms*✅ will be considered instead because an atom is a fusion of its respective subatomic particles.

- Cutting entities in half ❌ - this isn’t Fissionism, it’s an AP feat. One is destroying an entity not creating a new one. Fission is only relevant to fusions. A solution to this is simply adding a note that cutting entities in half doesn’t count as fusion. Would this be okay?

- Seperating fusions of physiology ✅ - One can seperate a being of dragon, demon, human physiologies into 3 seperate entities with each physiology. Perfect.

- Seperating fusions of DNA ✅ - In a perfect scenario, separation of a fusion of other different nucleic acids will sometimes cure mutation.

- Seperating a fusion of weapons or machines ✅ - eg a user can undo Megazords

- Seperation of body, soul and/or mind, other fused entities etc ✅- literally seperating the Mind from body, not instinctive reactions. Separating demonic soul from body to undo possession. Etc. This also includes fission of fused memories, emotions, and other concepts

Solution

Add all the “❌” to limitations or emphasize in definition that it doesn’t count as Fissionism

All the “✅” added under types to give a general idea of what counts. Because they all fall under the same premise.
 
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Arnoldstone18 said:
The premises all revolve around the concept of fission.

PREMISES THAT REVOLVE AROUND FISSION

- Undoing fusions ✅ -fission

- creating nuclear explosions ❌- a mere byproduct of fission, it’s not fission itself. So this will not be a criteria of fission. Splitting atoms*✅ will be considered instead because an atom is a fusion of its respective subatomic particles.

- Cutting entities in half ❌ - this isn’t Fissionism, it’s an AP feat. One is destroying an entity not creating a new one. Fission is only relevant to fusions, mixtures and those who can duplication. A solution to this is simply adding a note that cutting entities in half doesn’t count as fusion. Would this be okay?

- Seperating fusions of physiology ✅ - One can seperate a being of dragon, demon, human physiologies into 3 seperate entities with each physiology. Perfect.

- Seperating fusions of DNA ✅ - In a perfect scenario, separation of a fusion of other different nucleic acids will sometimes cure mutation.

- Seperating a fusion of weapons or machines ✅ - eg a user can undo Megazords

- Seperation of body, soul and/or mind ✅❓- literally seperating the Mind from body, not instinctive reactions. Separating demonic soul from body to undo possession. Etc.

Solution

Add all the “❌” to limitations or emphasize in definition that it doesn’t count as Fissionism

All the “✅” added under types to give a general idea of what counts. Because they all fall under the same premise.
Click to expand...
Body, soul, mind, even the underlying concepts like emotions, memories and stuff.
 
Antvasima said:
@AKM sama @SomebodyData @Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan @Andytrenom @Mr._Bambu @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @GyroNutz

Would you be willing to help out with evaluating this thread please?
Click to expand...

4iaLITlsPAiggC0qPXu-OceefpeoYLJGmv2JNMlsWYA.png


@Flashlight237 and I

ive always wanted to do this sir
 
I'm fine with fissionism as a concept. As long as it's clear it's about separating aspects of something making up a whole rather than cloning.

A lot of powers have variations in their mechanism and working but are united by the general concept. Such as mind manipulation having the possibility of being biological or metaphysical. So I don't see that point being very relevant.
That said it shouldn't be worded in a way that these seem like general abilities people with Fissionism have, but rather that they are different varieties of Fissionism that appear in fiction
 
Andytrenom said:
As long as it's clear it's about separating aspects of something making up a whole rather than cloning.
Click to expand...

Fissionism

A character's ability to separate anything into two or more parts. The user can undo fusions of objects, powers, emotions, concepts, living beings, etc. turning them into multiple units. Identical units should warrant a Duplication rating instead. Some Fission attacks negate durability.
Click to expand...
 
Just cases like nuclear fission sound like matter manipulation and seem redundant as Fissionism.
If such redundant cases are taken care of, I am fine with Fissionism. I guess characters like Rimuru and Yuuki would be good examples of ability via Venom's ability.
 
Seems good, as it applies to quite a lot of situations, and currently the wiki doesn't even have a solution to things like this, and even similar cases of people splitting fusions, materials etc.. end up being circumveneted by half-solutions.


We must be careful to not mistake blatant examples of matter manip, body control and duplication for this, but I think quite some characters can just split people, materials, entire locations and immaterial things via an ability that either doesn't really qualify for other powers we have or is covered by something else just because we don't have a clear answer.
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
2. Bruno Bucciarati (the ability to open zippers in almost anything solid thus splitting the solid into its constituents. He was able to split his own body into its parts)
10. Buggy's Devil Fruit
Click to expand...
These two are just biological and body control, for example.
 
Pikaman said:
Agree: @KLOL506 @Elizhaa (sans nuclear fission) @Confluctor @LordTracer @Andytrenom @SamanPatou (@Flashlight237 @Arnoldstone18 @Pikaman @Greatsage13th @XSOULOFCINDERX @Axxtentacle)

Disagree: @DontTalkDT @Antvasima

Don’t have an issue with: @DarkDragonMedeus

6:2 (12:2) with DDM not having an issue with the addition

some extra input needed ofc but I think this might just push through and get added
Click to expand...
Well actually with that vote above, 3:1 staff input, 6:1 Overall input, 9 staff have given input, can this be applied?
 
SamanPatou said:
These two are just biological and body control, for example.
Click to expand...
Wait I realized you copied Bruno

What ability is putting a zipper on almost anything to split them apart? I know you said Bio manipulation because he used the ability on his own body. but shouldn't putting a zipper to separate anything count as fissionism?
 
This is definitely the strongest attempt at Fissionism as an ability. Where would it go? I wouldn't know.
 
Andytrenom said:
I'm fine with fissionism as a concept. As long as it's clear it's about separating aspects of something making up a whole rather than cloning.

A lot of powers have variations in their mechanism and working but are united by the general concept. Such as mind manipulation having the possibility of being biological or metaphysical. So I don't see that point being very relevant.

That said it shouldn't be worded in a way that these seem like general abilities people with Fissionism have, but rather that they are different varieties of Fissionism that appear in fiction
Click to expand...
Elizhaa said:
Just cases like nuclear fission sound like matter manipulation and seem redundant as Fissionism.
If such redundant cases are taken care of, I am fine with Fissionism. I guess characters like Rimuru and Yuuki would be good examples of ability via Venom's ability.
Click to expand...
SamanPatou said:
Seems good, as it applies to quite a lot of situations, and currently the wiki doesn't even have a solution to things like this, and even similar cases of people splitting fusions, materials etc.. end up being circumveneted by half-solutions.

We must be careful to not mistake blatant examples of matter manip, body control and duplication for this, but I think quite some characters can just split people, materials, entire locations and immaterial things via an ability that either doesn't really qualify for other powers we have or is covered by something else just because we don't have a clear answer.
Click to expand...
Well, if somebody can write a draft in which all of the above concerns are taken into account, I suppose that it is probably fine.

What do you think, @DontTalkDT ?
 
Personally I still not like it. I think it makes as much sense as having a "destruction" page.
Arnoldstone18 said:
Vegeta

He can literally undo fusions. That is literally fission.

Bruno Bucciarati

Bruno literally splits solid and himself using a zipper. WHAT ABILITY WOULD YOU CALL THIS? There is nothing on the P&A to describe his ability on his page so a text was used instead. This problem is easily solved with "Fissionism".

Captain Atom

His ability is literally nuclear fission.

Ben 10

The Omnitrix can literally split and extract DNA from a literal hybrid made up of fused DNAs. It is the fission of biological fusion.


Ydrat people

They taught Vegeta fission

Josuke

capable of reverting mixtures back into their constituents. Like food into its ingredients.


Wonder Woman (Capable of splitting atoms with her sword)

Can perform atomic fission with her sword. What else would you call that if not fission?

Dr. Manhatten

Can literally perform atomic fission too.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All of these characters perform fission.
Click to expand...
I meant 'red object manipulation' in my example if you wanna get nitpicky.

To your examples:
Vegeta: I call it powernull of fusions.
Bruno: Zipper creation? His zippers don't simply split things apart. Their effect is more complex, like how he can make a zipper on a floor and slip inside.
Atom: Matter manipulation, as splitting atoms is a primary effect of that ability.
Ben: Biological Manipulation.
Josuke: That is actually misrepresenting his ability, which is actually to revert thing to their prior state, not to split things.
Wonder Woman: Matter manipulation.
Dr. Manhattan: Matter Manipulation, too.
Buggy: I call it body control.

By what's suggested here I can claim that I have fissionism for my ability to separate an egg into egg white, yolk and shell.

Also
A character's ability to separate anything into two or more parts. The user can undo fusions of objects, powers, emotions, concepts, living beings, etc. turning them into multiple units.
Click to expand...
None of the examples fulfils this definition of the power, as none of them can do all of the listed applications. In general saying 'separate anything' is hasty generalization waiting to happen.
 
DontTalkDT said:
Personally I still not like it. I think it makes as much sense as having a "destruction" page.

I meant 'red object manipulation' in my example if you wanna get nitpicky.

To your examples:
Vegeta: I call it powernull of fusions.
Bruno: Zipper creation? His zippers don't simply split things apart. Their effect is more complex, like how he can make a zipper on a floor and slip inside.
Atom: Matter manipulation, as splitting atoms is a primary effect of that ability.
Ben: Biological Manipulation.
Josuke: That is actually misrepresenting his ability, which is actually to revert thing to their prior state, not to split things.
Wonder Woman: Matter manipulation.
Dr. Manhattan: Matter Manipulation, too.
Buggy: I call it body control.

By what's suggested here I can claim that I have fissionism for my ability to separate an egg into egg white, yolk and shell.

Also

None of the examples fulfils this definition of the power, as none of them can do all of the listed applications. In general saying 'separate anything' is hasty generalization waiting to happen.
Click to expand...
What about Vergil?
KLOL506 said:
Devil May Cry's Vergil, especially his Yamato, also comes to mind, which is straight up conceptual, since he separated his two halves, human and demon, to gain more power in DMC5 by stabbing himself with the Yamato. The Yamato can even separate power from heart, and restore people from being melted into with other souls, it also straight up allows changing of one's memories and even gives them a full physical body and form.
Click to expand...
Oh, Souls are conceptual in nature in DMC.
 
KLOL506 said:
What about Vergil?

Oh, Souls are conceptual in nature in DMC.
Click to expand...
Concept Manipulation for splitting concepts I guess? Given, I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to imagine under splitting concepts. Splitting himself into a demon part and a human part would be biological manipulation, I guess.

Also, counter question: Would having fissionism mean that his concept manipulation gets deleted form the page and characters who resist the blades concept splitting stuff will not have resistance to concept manipulation, but just fissionism resistance instead? And, if we do replace it, would you say Fissionism is self-explanatory enough that parts of the explanations can be left out?
 
DontTalkDT said:
Concept Manipulation for splitting concepts I guess?
Click to expand...
That works perfectly for how the ability works, thanks.
DontTalkDT said:
Also, counter question: Would having fissionism mean that his concept manipulation gets deleted form the page and characters who resist the blades concept splitting stuff will not have resistance to concept manipulation, but just fissionism resistance instead? And, if we do replace it, would you say Fissionism is self-explanatory enough that parts of the explanations can be left out?
Click to expand...
Nah, if anything fissionism gets the "conceptual nature" boost as it works on concepts and all that shit. Idk about ya'all but I rather have a very good explanation of the ability and how it works than let parts out.
 
Tony_di_bugalu said:
Nah, if anything fissionism gets the "conceptual nature" boost as it works on concepts and all that shit. Idk about ya'all but I rather have a very good explanation of the ability and how it works than let parts out.
Click to expand...
And that's kinda the thing isn't it? Fissionism is so vague, we will need to retain all the explanations we currently have on the pages when adding the ability. It's questionable if it should replace the existing abilities at all and it makes the resistance situation more complicated.

In other words we kinda gain nothing by having such a page.
 
DontTalkDT said:
And that's kinda the thing isn't it? Fissionism is so vague, we will need to retain all the explanations we currently have on the pages when adding the ability. It's questionable if it should replace the existing abilities at all and it makes the resistance situation more complicated.

In other words we kinda gain nothing by having such a page.
Click to expand...
From my PoV is like how other abilities can achieve similar results. Law hax and concept hax to mind hax people for example. If anything us, like the indexing forum we are supposed to be, should have this ability and apply it to the verses that fit the bill to what is proposed.
 
DontTalkDT said:
And that's kinda the thing isn't it? Fissionism is so vague, we will need to retain all the explanations we currently have on the pages when adding the ability. It's questionable if it should replace the existing abilities at all and it makes the resistance situation more complicated.

In other words we kinda gain nothing by having such a page.
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. From what I understand the page isn't about an ability that just splits stuff into baser components.

It does it in such a say that resultant products are their own self contained objects/characters.

Say for example if you split Gogeta or Vegito into Goku and Vegeta, then that would be Fissionism. Since the baser parts have their own physical form/attributes, souls, minds, identities etc. A simple type of matter separation, soul cutting and/or mind fracturing combined wouldn't achive this feat for example.
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
Not necessarily. From what I understand the page isn't about an ability that just splits stuff into baser components.

It does it in such a say that resultant products are their own self contained objects/characters.
Click to expand...
Splitting atoms is supposed to be part of this. Splitting an atom into two halfs is literally just cutting in small. Heck, anything that splits something into two halfs splits it into two self-contained objects. Cutting a hand off of someone splits it into the two self-contained objects of person and hand.

GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
Say for example if you split Gogeta or Vegito into Goku and Vegeta, then that would be Fissionism. Since the baser parts have their own physical form/attributes, souls, minds, identities etc. A simple type of matter separation, soul cutting and/or mind fracturing combined wouldn't achive this feat for example.
Click to expand...
That example still just sounds like nullifying a fusion to me.

Also gotta disagree. In my eyes physically, spiritually and mentally separating them would achieve that result.

Tony_di_bugalu said:
From my PoV is like how other abilities can achieve similar results. Law hax and concept hax to mind hax people for example. If anything us, like the indexing forum we are supposed to be, should have this ability and apply it to the verses that fit the bill to what is proposed.
Click to expand...
There is such a thing as being to general. As said, by that logic "red object manipulation" should be a thing because lots of characters can manipulate red objects and there even are some red objects that are somewhat hard to precisely fit into other abilities (red balloons for example). Or take sphere manipulation as an example that would be equally (in)valid.

I mean really as it stands this ability makes no clear distinction that wouldn't allow me to list fissionism for every fire manipulator that can split flames in two non-identical parts.

What 'Indexing Forum' is concerned I remind that we are not the superpower wiki. Our goal is not to list every possible superpower. We always aimed at keeping it to the most essential powers that are in common use, as they help with explaining what characters can do. We have no interest in the power pages beyond them aiding in explaining the characters. Which this power IMO fails to do.
 
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DontTalk makes the most sense above, as usual. My apologies to other members here.

Do you also agree with DontTalk, @DarkDragonMedeus ? I saw that you liked his post above.
 
DontTalkDT said:
Personally I still not like it. I think it makes as much sense as having a "destruction" page.

I meant 'red object manipulation' in my example if you wanna get nitpicky.

To your examples:
Vegeta: I call it powernull of fusions.
Bruno: Zipper creation? His zippers don't simply split things apart. Their effect is more complex, like how he can make a zipper on a floor and slip inside.
Atom: Matter manipulation, as splitting atoms is a primary effect of that ability.
Ben: Biological Manipulation.
Josuke: That is actually misrepresenting his ability, which is actually to revert thing to their prior state, not to split things.
Wonder Woman: Matter manipulation.
Dr. Manhattan: Matter Manipulation, too.
Buggy: I call it body control.

By what's suggested here I can claim that I have fissionism for my ability to separate an egg into egg white, yolk and shell.

Also

None of the examples fulfils this definition of the power, as none of them can do all of the listed applications. In general saying 'separate anything' is hasty generalization waiting to happen.
Click to expand...
I just woke up, and I have a ton of stuff to do today.

so can you look at this message below, I noticed you haven’t addressed it yet.

I will respond to everything in another post later today.


Arnoldstone18 said:
The premises all revolve around the concept of fission.

PREMISES THAT REVOLVE AROUND FISSION

- Undoing fusions ✅ -fission

- creating nuclear explosions ❌- a mere byproduct of fission, it’s not fission itself. So this will not be a criteria of fission. Splitting atoms*✅ will be considered instead because an atom is a fusion of its respective subatomic particles.

- Cutting entities in half ❌ - this isn’t Fissionism, it’s an AP feat. One is destroying an entity not creating a new one. Fission is only relevant to fusions. A solution to this is simply adding a note that cutting entities in half doesn’t count as fusion. Would this be okay?

- Seperating fusions of physiology ✅ - One can seperate a being of dragon, demon, human physiologies into 3 seperate entities with each physiology. Perfect.

- Seperating fusions of DNA ✅ - In a perfect scenario, separation of a fusion of other different nucleic acids will sometimes cure mutation.

- Seperating a fusion of weapons or machines ✅ - eg a user can undo Megazords

- Seperation of body, soul and/or mind, other fused entities etc ✅- literally seperating the Mind from body, not instinctive reactions. Separating demonic soul from body to undo possession. Etc. This also includes fission of fused memories, emotions, and other concepts

Solution

Add all the “❌” to limitations or emphasize in definition that it doesn’t count as Fissionism

All the “✅” added under types to give a general idea of what counts. Because they all fall under the same premise.
Click to expand...

Edit: I also want to mention that a lot of our P&A are vague/broad, which contains other P&A under “types” For example. Mind Manipulation is under Madness manipulation (type 2), possession, biological manipulation (physically controlling the brain directly), technology manipulation (hacking AI), Conceptual manipulation and so on.

So some Fission feats being similar to some (insert broad term) manipulation is perfectly fine and and should be listed under types too just like mind manipulation. Fusionism also has this “problem” but we casually ignore it for the sake of disagreeing with Fissionism

If that is a problem then so many of our power and abilities should not exist. Brb.
 
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