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Fire Force Higher-Dimensional Existence Discussion/Possible Removal
- Thread starter Deceived3596
- Start date
- Status
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what
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I am changing my stance to leave HDE on the profile.
Sniper670
He/Him- 6,409
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The MVP is here!!
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i was going to say something about it,well,i have to quite it,anyway it is not important,just alot of text.
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No one is even trying to upgrade the verse to low 1-C...
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then leave the higher dimensional existence if no one is trying the low 1-C,me against alot of people in this forum is not good
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I really agree with Deceived
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what, did you ignore the staff input completely-
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maybe,because i was occupaded taking care of my sister and not touch the pc
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- Thread starter
- #94
We necessarily need to do so Duedate, that's the logical consequence of allowing HDE to stay, the fact you're actively arguing we should just ignore this consequence because "someone above said they wish to make a full CRT about it later" doesn't make sense, and honestly is shocking coming from a mod. We shouldn't, and in actuality, we don't allow direct misinformation of this level to exist on our profiles. We can't just hand-wave it away like it doesn't matter, that's bullshit. Also the guy, @Maitreya, who said he'd make a full CRT about it later literally agrees with removing it currently because he actually understands you can't just leave blatant misinformation on the profiles just because he's revising it eventually in the future.
We can't just leave it, it's our obligation to remove, or correct misinformation on our profiles, the fact you're fighting against me on this is something else.
If the HDE itself is accurate, then the logical consequence of that accuracy is the upgrading of 2-C characters to Low 1-C, there's literally no logical way to bypass that entailment Duedate, unless you believe this doesn't scale to one's stats, that's the only way.
Sure, it just isn't a good look homie, like not at all.
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Yall are talking about logical consequence... but are kinda wrong
We don't accept higher dimensional beings to automatically go to higher tiers strictly cause of dimensionality.
Just like how we don't just call any and everybody who goes into tier 2 4d
We don't accept higher dimensional beings to automatically go to higher tiers strictly cause of dimensionality.
Just like how we don't just call any and everybody who goes into tier 2 4d
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- Thread starter
- #96
Literally no one's saying that having HDE makes you that tier statistically.
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Literally pain is implying that
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- Thread starter
- #98
Ignore pain then, her opinion doesn't matter, just stick with what i'm saying in the OP and in my rebuttals, please.
I'm actually malding at the fact none of y'all are understanding what i'm saying.
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Actually I'm curious, how does the structure being 4-D equate into those who inhabit it 4-D?
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They're not saying they inhabit it, they're saying they embody it and can freely manipulate the entirety of it
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Hmmm
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,100
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Dread, I know you have a problem with reading my posts recently
wtf??
I literally said you can be 4D and still be weaker than 3D beings AP wise, you can be 5D and still not be low 2-C AP wise.
Like please read my posts properly
I never implied that.
My whole post is how there need to be qualitative difference between the characters for there to be HDE and you butchered that by saying nonsense to say the least and kept on with it since you obviously do not know much about it and wish to claim you do.
Also @Deceived3596 like I said qualitative superiority or HDE has nothing to do with AP, I will make a proper CRT to remove the HDE if this falls through.
Also, the reason for HDE is cause the adolla is supposed to be a higher plane to humans and not the universe, so being 5-D in itself is wrong
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This thread is gonna teach @Deceived3596 a life-long lesson
….never make a Fire Force CRT. Of any kind
….never make a Fire Force CRT. Of any kind
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- Thread starter
- #104
Animated depiction on what i'm going to do to you IRL after telling you the 50th time I already know this.
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No, I have absolutely no damn reading comprehension issues. Your requirements are literally implying the necessity of having low 1-C cosmology which me and @Duedate8898 are already opposing this in two factors:
- It has nothing to do with AP, so your requirements has no treatment here
- And since your requirements has no meaning here, the character can get HDE.
This is your requirements, Pein. There is absolutely no reason to think it has nothing related to AP, because if any of them are met, then there is no reason to oppose against low 1-C.
So stop constantly antagonize me that I can't read shit. Read your requirements at least, if the verse proved any of them, there is absolutely no damn reason not to upgrade the verse to low 1-C
And since @Deceived3596 kindly ask to respond to his OP, here.
I don't find it here an issue, if this is being implied and proved, the verse deserves low 1-C comparison. Also in other side, you are implying a conditional argument where we both agreed, that it should not be the case as HDE has nothing to do with AP.
Not of necessity as they are not related to each other.
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You're misunderstanding what i'm calling an "issue" here Dread, i'm not saying Low 1-C in itself is the issue, or even an issue at all. The "issue" i'm referencing would be how we currently scale the verse's AP and how it's affected by Adolla's HDE. If we continue to accept Adolla being a mathematically higher dimension, then we necessarily need to upgrade the verse's AP, full stop. We can't have one but not the other in this situation since the AP scaling for 2-C is inherently contingent on Adolla, if Adolla's 5-D, then manipulating it, which is currently accepted to be an AP feat, would be a 5-D/Low 1-C AP feat. Similar how it's currently considered to be a 4-D/Low 2-C AP feat individually.
HDE within this instance does matter to AP since the HDE in question is in reference to a dimension, not a physical entity. The Evangelist just has HDE because she's the physical embodiment of that dimension, if she's capable of manipulating that higher dimension with her power, she'd scale in AP to that dimension's dimensionality, exactly how she does currently. I'm ******* flabbergasted that people are this incapable of understanding this basic entailment of their own arguments.
It's a necessity in this situation Dread, if you don't believe it would, then we gotta remove 2-C from the profiles.
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The premise of the argument is that due to its mathematical higher dimension (which should qualify for low 1-C), the verse should be given a low 1-C rating. However, we have countered that the two statistics are completely orthogonal, and as a result, a 2-C rating was created. It seems illogical to not upgrade the low 1-C rating based on this reasoning.
Alright, now since you already said this:
Ya, I don't mind. Upgrade the verse to low 1-C, and the relevant characters that are effected by the change. I don't see any anti-feats for this.
Specially the counter-argument is “higher dimension is only implied to humans”, like this can be interpreted in a logical sense.
Alright, now since you already said this:
Then we are both concede that HDE has nothing to do with AP, but within this verse mechanics, it is relevant. Agreed with the premise.
Ya, I don't mind. Upgrade the verse to low 1-C, and the relevant characters that are effected by the change. I don't see any anti-feats for this.
Specially the counter-argument is “higher dimension is only implied to humans”, like this can be interpreted in a logical sense.
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yall are gonna break decieved one of these days
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,100
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Oh the Strawmann. Again you have absolutely no knowledge in this and cannot read it or you just cannot comprehend it, either way it is bad.
A character can fulfil all the wiki's requirements and still be weaker than a lower D. Read the FAQ page
And also none of the requirements are met here so there is no problem about that.
You have a reading comprehension and a pride and joy in saying things you do not understand. You literally said the HDE page is based on theology, when it is pure maths and physics. So you think you comprehended that?
I literally said, it three times that higher D does not mean higher AP, but you neglected that part and only saw what you want, same way you saw theology in maths equations
Since you cannot read let me help you bold it out
A CHARACTER CAN BE HIGHER DIMENSIONAL AND STILL BE WEAKER THAN A LOWER DIMENSIONAL BEING. ACCORDING TO OUR STANDARDS, BEING CALLED HIGHER DIMENSIONAL DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MAKE YOU A HIGHER DIMENSIONAL BEING WITH EQUAL POWERS TO AN HIGHER TIER FITTING THAT DIMENSION, IF YOU DO NOT FULFILL THE REQUIREMENTS.
Well at least that is bold enough for you to understand
which is the problem here, since the HDE is supposed to be in reference to humans and not the universe. Also there should be no HDE at all, making a thread at this point, in Judge Judy voice "it is bellony"
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Pain, theres no need to throw insults at people over a vsbw fire force thead
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,100
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That is not an insult, they actually have a reading comprehension and I am pointing it out. Since I am tired of the same nonsense over and over again
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It was insult
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I think the low 1c stuff should be ok based on what im seeing
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,100
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Not if it is true
1. You said the FAQ page was based on Theology and philosopy, a page that is purely maths and physics and I called you out on it and you disappeared. So tell me how you read a page that was based on maths and said the page was based on theology?
It is either you did not read the page or you could not comprehend it, the latter is even worse.
2. You said I implied that HDE means higher AP, when I explicitly said "Higher D does not give you higher AP and you can still be weaker than the lower D"
So how did you comprehend that statement to mean that I am saying Higher D means Higher AP
3. You said HDE and AE are related also, I cannot even begin to actually get the mind behind this since it is just plain wrong
And this is for this thread alone aside other various instances of such behaviours outside this thread. it is either of these
- You do not read these things and try to prove you are knowledgeable on them based on innate knowledge even though you are not
- You read them but you do not comprehend or understand them
- You are just being dishonest on purpose
1 and 3 are bad and I do not think that is the case here, but it is 2
My advice, when you see a post or page take a step back and read it twice before responding
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In favor of removing it entirely there must be feats to back up such tierHigher D
We currently give both Shinra and Haumea Higher-Dimensional Existence because Haumea's the physical embodiment of Adolla, with Adolla "embodying the very idea of 'higher dimensions' and 'mathematics' itself". And Shinra scaling from this because he "Is the true god of all of creation in the verse, even greater than The Evangelist".
There's an issue with this, see, Adolla's stated to be a "higher dimension" in comparison to the main Fire Force universe, which is a 4-D structure, with it having its own universal space-time continuum. Meaning, Adolla would be 5-D since it's qualitatively superior to a 4-D structure.
Haumea's the physical embodiment of this supposed 5-D dimension, with her having the capabilities of manipulating it fully with her power. Which would mean she would scale to this level of dimensionality in terms of existence and power.
Everyone else who currently scales to 2-C would, of course, scale to this level of power since their scaling is derived from scaling below, to, or above Adolla.
So the conundrum we're given is if we should remove this higher-dimensional existence from Adolla, and such these profiles because of the inconsistency of Low 1-C within Fire Force (at least with what's currently outline within the cosmology blog), or we upgrade every single 2-C character to Low 1-C.
This thread will discuss and rectify this problem. I'm personally in favor of removing it entirely because of the current inconsistencies with these characters scaling to Low 1-C, but i'm open to discussion and having my mind changed.
Voting:
Keep higher-dimensional existence and upgrade 2-C characters to Low 1-C - @Duedate8898 (Doesn't believe this is an either or scenario, believes the HDE can stay without affecting the AP scaling of the verse, doesn't currently agree with Low 1-C)
Remove higher-dimensional existence from the profiles - @KingTempest
Neutral -
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"If it is true, then I am allowed to insult"
Someone call staff members to moderate him and stop strawmanning
Someone call staff members to moderate him and stop strawmanning
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,100
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I will like to think of it as constructive criticism. I am giving you something you can work on, which is the way you comprehend or understand people's post and the wiki pages.
Bold of you to mention strawmann, when that is all you have done in this thread.
This will be my last post on this matter, I am tired of your strawmanning and misrepresentation of my posts repeatedly even after I explained over and over again and I just had to call you out on it,
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I kindly ask you guys to stop the arguments because I’d rather than see someone get RvR’d because of this thread.
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I will tell you why it is strawmanning once I am back home.
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