Fire Emblem 7/6 and Warriors Upgrades Thread.

[The_real_cal_howard]

Considering how lighting up the universe is 5.6028 hundred septillio times weaker than universe level (and that's if the result of said feat was at the peak of the tier it's in (being 4-A), in which it's nowhere close), I wouldn't be too surprised.

Size=/=level. A Dwarf Star isn't gonna output Dwarf Star level energy. Plus, most of the stars visible from earth are/were (given how light works) more powerful than our sun, and the (admittedly very rough) calc already assumes what's needed as well, in that all of the stars got boosted to give the same output as our sun.

As I said before, luminosity would grant something far higher, but I'm not sold anymore on the stars of the night sky being impacted anyway. I still need to reply to the rest of your previous message.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

This is just, really odd.

But i guess i´ll trust you on that one for now.

How would Luminosity go?


I guess the best scenario now is the luminosity output is at least somewhat higher than 6-A, maybe it could also give them some reality warping and Light Manipulation abilities.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Except it's not combat applicable or able to be controlled in any way (like the entirety of the Ending Winter)

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Its weather manipulation and at least some degree of reality manipulation for literallt breaking the laws of physics that goes to an output of force, the weapon had to had an output to liberate the energy needed to acomplish the feat.


If weather manipulation is "not combat applicable in any way" for you, then you should be preparing yourself to nerf Tellius to tier 8.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

What Ashunera is able to actually kill people and be used in combat, unlike the Ending Winter, which was

1. Caused by the combined power of the weapons

2. Wasn't controlled in any way shape, or form

and 3. Didn't hit people and just kinda happened

These events aren't even comparable to each other in anyway outside of falling under the same tier

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

1.-I dont see how that is relevant in any way, even so, the Sword of Seals is stated to be stronger than the 8 Holy weapons combined.

2.-Does the output change by the lack of control?

3.-Are you implying no one was affected by the Ending Winter?

The dialogue above crearly proves dragons were forced into human form by the sudden change of the rules of nature.

Annd the sudden changes obviously got at least one person killed.

-


Not to mention the Ending Winter is clearly Reality Warping by statements and lore.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Oh yeah, was it Roy shaking the continent was plain 6-A rating come from?

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

I dunno, ask JSW.

Also, why is it 6-A when Elibe is a pangean continent?

Hell, the Fire Dragons from FE7 were stated by Athos to be able to destroy the entire continent over time.

People ignore that Elibe is a pangean contient.


We should wait for the luminosity calc now.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

It comes from the Ending Winter

It's the justification on their pages

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Ending Winter on itself should have an upgrade (Abilities like Reality Manipulation) based on the topics seen above.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Thats why its fiction.

Do you think messing up with the laws of physics makes sense? No.

Its a game were dragons and magic tomes exist.

For one, reality warping (what I think it is) easily falls into the realm of fiction, especially in a realm with magic and physics breaking.

Secondly, being fiction doesn't mean that the most logical answer would be overwritten by the most literal one. And from a logical, storytelling, and contextual standpoint, an eternal night is definitely more plausible. There's what I said comparing the first half of the sentence to the second, with making Summer become Winter being analogous to making day become night, yes, but there's more:

• One, the sentence is flowery from the getgo, as "making it snow in the summer" is a fancier way of saying summer became winter (it's called the Ending Winter, after all), and changing style mid conversation, let alone mid sentence, is bad writing, so the second half of the sentence is clearly not made to be taken at 100% face value.
• Two, the event is about the collapse of natural law. Snow when it was supposed to be summer is unnatural, because they're opposites. Daytime and other stars' luminosity don't share that correlation. The sun is a star, and other stars can occasionally be viewed while it's still light. But daytime and nighttime are opposites.
• Three, why would an event talked about negatively, and represented as dark times for all, be noticeably brighter than usual? Wouldn't it make far more sense to be darker?
• Four, how was there snow and winter weather with more sunlight from other suns, and therefore heat on the earth? It's contradictory. Keep in mind that these things happened at the same time, and continued on together as a calamity. As alluded to earlier, darkness, even more, darkness and cold together, like eternal night and winter, are commonly used as signs of foreboding times, and would fit the bill.
• Five, speaking of calamities, an increase in visible stars and/or daylight isn't seen as calamitous unless it's a drought, and because it's simultaneously snowing if your hypothesis is correct, it's not. Meanwhile unending night always is.
• Six, and final, even if point two is debunked and for some reason, daytime and star visibility are interrelated, or it doesn't matter, and if point five is debunked, and superluminous stars can be a calamity (and I'm pretty sure UV radiation poisoning isn't a known concept in the FE verse), increased luminosity of stars in the day wouldn't be seen as something I'd like to call a "nature taboo", and thus wouldn't be associated with the fall of it. It won't stop being winter when it's supposed to be the dead of summer? Yes. That's something people would notice and care about and it'd affect their lives and the life of nature. Same with an eternal night. Stars being brighter? Not quite. Remember, this was something big and bad enough that humanity angrily claimed it was the dragon's doing, and that was the story passed down. It was that big a deal. Roy immediately guessed the apocalyptic Ending Winter, which happened pre-Roy, because Jahn listed two things that are noticeably wrong and dangerous be associated with the collapse of nature, as opposed to one that's inherently wrong and dangerous, and another that's kinda-sorta wrong and currently unassociated with danger.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Also, wanted to say that the Ending Winter's nature screwery sapped most of the energy from the Dragons and the Divine Weapons, and the Dragons took on human form because it required the least amount of energy, as the event made it so instead of their true forms being the least strenuous to maintain, it was the human form, while true forms became difficult. The Dragons weren't magically forced to take that form all of a sudden. They chose to out of necessity, and sealed their powers in their stones. It was better to live a life where they were less powerful than one where literally, the laws of nature made it difficult to so much as exist.

I don't know (or care ovo jk) who this vindicates though: Kyle or JSW.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with Cal

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

The fact of summer and winter being opposites is true, for a normal functioning world.

The holy weapons literally changed the foundation the world´s climate and even the ennergy it relied on, so, comparing the post-Ending Winter effects to the real world or even its logic may be flawed.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm just gonna call the Ending Winter "the event" from now on to save time lol.

The FE-verse does function like a normal world on a functional level though. afaik, the only effect proven to keep hold after the event was the switch of energy, which mostly impacted the Dragons, as opposed to affecting humanity. Every nature taboo left with the end of the event, given that well...it's not snowing.

I'm kinda not entirely following you on your points here, nor did it change anyone's mindset of how things should be. The event didn't change up the definition of the words or anything. It simply made the climate wintertime when it should've been summer weather. And the collapse of the laws of nature was temporary. Seasons work normally, and either of the two scenarios, superluminous stars or eternal night, stopped since the end of the event.

Heck, the final weapons were sealed so they wouldn't start another event. You can't recreate an event that's still in progress.

Actually, now that I started, I should probably lead into something else. Saying it distorted physics is a bit misleading in this case, as laws of nature doesn't mean laws of physics here. Nothing learned in a physics class became untrue because of the event, and what we see change is more magically distorting how things should be, as opposed to distorting how things should work. Plus, was the event confirmed to extend past Elibe? It'd be remiss to assume so without evidence. And while it did affect the energy the world relies on, it didn't change it functionally. It drained the energy from things, and changed up the energy required to do certain things.

Basically, post-event Elibe should be no functionally different than pre-event Elibe, which, other than the existence of magic, magical beings, and superhumans, established nothing that would make us consider it run by different laws of physics than our own, and the only thing that would've was a temporary calamitous phenomenon for the humans, and for the species it did affect long lasting, how things should work for them was a constant.

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

So downgrades when?

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Well, i just stated my points.


So, well, do what you must.

Imo literally breaking laws of physics is an obvious case of reality warping, but pushing this over and over wont get me anywhere, will it?

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Is there a point to this thread anymore? If not, i should just close this,...

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Didn't know why you were saying that at first, so I just looked at the NF calc.

I did say afaik. As far as I know. And I didn't. I don't exactly have easy access to a game not released in my country, and it's been a pain to emulate for me. Either way, I'll admit to being wrong about how far the Ending Winter reached.

Although, good thing I did, as checking the text quoted in the calc solidified my point about it being day becoming night rather than this star shining deal. Day becoming night is stated right along with summer becoming winter. The same two examples I proposed. No mention of stars shining at all. Roy heard that version first, so of course the day shining like night line meant day becoming night, as Roy recognized the disasters in the story from the legend.

I also stand by this not being messing with the laws of physics.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

The dragon dude himself said so, and he is like...a witness of the whole thing.

But you know, stuff.

I would still push for reality warpinng and weather manipulation for the fe7 & 6 cast that have used holy weapons, but i guess that isnt the popular opinion right now.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Well, that quote and all of the work of translating and searching...wasted.


It makes me sad, no upgrades makes me sad.

I guess this thread has no reason to be now.


See you all, you can open it againn later if you want, but ill have nothing to do with it.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

What happened to the darn ilumination calcs?

Dont tell me you are freaking afraid of Low 5-C FE6.

 

[KinkiestSins]

I guess I am fine with Large Island Level charas.

Even small planet level is okay, but Cal and JSW made this thread hard to read. Can I get a summary in bullet points? (Asking Cal and JSW or basically anyone)

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

They are already Continent Level.

The upgrades come from the illumination calc being made.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

They are already Continent Level.
The upgrades come from the illumination calc being made.

BUUUUMP

 

[Dark649]

The illumination calcs does not wield results that surpasses their current ratings.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Considering how lighting up the universe is 5.6028 hundred septillio times weaker than universe level (and that's if the result of said feat was at the peak of the tier it's in (being 4-A), in which it's nowhere close), I wouldn't be too surprised.

Size=/=level. A Dwarf Star isn't gonna output Dwarf Star level energy. Plus, most of the stars visible from earth are/were (given how light works) more powerful than our sun, and the (admittedly very rough) calc already assumes what's needed as well, in that all of the stars got boosted to give the same output as our sun.

As I said before, luminosity would grant something far higher, but I'm not sold anymore on the stars of the night sky being impacted anyway. I still need to reply to the rest of your previous message.

Disagreed.

I want the calc made.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Just checked Roy's page.


He is put at Continent Level while listing the old Narutoforums calc, that puts him on Multi Continent instead of JSW's calc.

 

[Dark649]

Because he divided the results since Multi-Continent is the combined powers of all the weapons.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Kyle

I heavily suggest you drop your confrontational tone.

Firstly, you're in no position to bargain or make demands. This is far from your first time causing a ruckus and I do not appreciate the way you've been speaking to everyone on this thread.

Second, Cal's reasoning makes sense. There's no reason to assume that the effects of the Ending Winter extended past Elibe. Aside from the manakete going mad and losing their ability to actively keep up their dragon forms, there was no lasting change to the "laws of nature".

 

[Dark649]

I agree with Ruppuzan, i would suggest you as well to drop your behaviour since is annoying me and the staff.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

SORE WA CHIGAU YO!


In the video in OP, red dragon dude says the sword of seals is more powerful than the 8 weapons that caused the Ending Winter.


Remember. The sword of seals is technically not a holy weapon like the rest, but it is still stronger than the other 8 combined.


Its exactly the same scenario as the Mani Katti anf the Sol Katti for Lyn, which is not counted as a holy weapon by still being comparable to them.

 

[Kepekley23]

Alright, I'll do it. Just stop bothering people for a moment, please.

What's the feat?

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Correction.


The sword of seals is stronger than the other SEVEN Holy weapons.


Miscounted.


And adding some proof. https://youtu.be/AlBGOBJcmYc (and 10:50) so, wathever a single holy weapon AP is, the Sword of Seals is at least 7 times that.

And Elibe is a Pangean Continent.

Woah, to think Roy will probably get back at Multi Continent if JSW really only just divided the original feat by 7/8.

If that's the case, then Roy should be upgraded to At least High 6-A again, because the dragon dude said Stronger than the combined might of the holy weapons and not "a blade with the same power/comparable to the Divine Weapons", which leaves ambiguous how much stronger it is.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

And with that, Roy should get an uograde that would put him in multi continent.

And Zephiel / Idunn too by being able to fight him.

And the Binding Blade is technically NOT a holy weapon, but its power surpasses the rest as shown above.

Mani Katti and Sol Katti should be equal to the other Divine Weapons.

 

[Dark649]

If the other Admins agrees and if the original jap version mentions as well that the weapon is stronger than the others, then it will be added as it affects only three characters.

 

[Reppuzan]

I don't mind placing Roy with the Sword of Seals above the Legendary Weapons as well as Zephiel (due to wielding Eckesachs, the Sword of Seals' counterpart), and Idunn.

Scaling the Sol Katti should be fine, but I disagree with scaling the Mani Katti, since it is clearly weaker than the Holy Weapons or else Athos would not have provided her with the Sol Katti.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Yahn only says that it's above the other weapons, he never says "all together" or "combined" though, Roy should honestly just get an "At least" added

Sol Katti already scales, look at Lyn's page

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Indeed, Reppuzan.

Mani Katti should be, i dunno, at least 8-C?


And no, JSW.

Seriosly, SoS being > All Divine Weapons has already been accepted by the wikia for a while now, Roy is Continent Level because someone divided his power by 7 or 8 without respecting that fact.

Anyways, i will go look for the quote in the Japanese version, there should be a nico nico link above in this thread somewhere.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

https://youtu.be/b2nBZAyopNY?t=15m10s

Exact moment of dialogue in the Japanese Version.

"Harutomuto wa yamu wo ezu"

Hartmut was unavoidable.

""Ma (Demon) ryuu (Dragon)" to tatakau utame (In order to fight the demon dragon) ni tsukuridashita (Used) "shinshou-Ki" o mo koerususamajii narika o motsu ken de (A sword with a trememdous success exceeding the Divine Instruments) "Shin "Maryuu" wo kitta." (Slashed the Demon Dragon)

Literally "In order to fight the Demon Dragon, He slashed the Demon Dragon with a Sword with a tremendous might that exceeds the Holy Instruments."

(Remember Japanese doesnt have a particular form to determine quantity on a single word like English does, they use concepts as themselves. like in Dragon Ball with "Galaxy")

"Fuuin no Tsurugi da..."

Its the Sword of Seals...


Use Google Translate or literally ask anyone who knows Japanese if im making it up if you dont believe me.

And there you go, High 6-A Roy, Zephiel and Iduun.

Seriously, its annoying how people who are against FE6´s last resort is ALWAYS "Does the Japanese version say this?", its very annoying to look thru hours of footage just to find that its the same thing as the translated version.