Fire Emblem 7/6 and Warriors Upgrades Thread.

[Kyle_Ramos]

Fire Emblem 7/6: Making the Stars Shine in the Middle of the day.

"At 6:32, it's stated that the Divine Weapons of Elibe had caused stars to be shining in the middle of the day"

Calcs needed of the energy necessary to make stars shine as much as the sun.

http://www.skyandtelescope.com/astronomy-resources/how-many-stars-night-sky-09172014/

9096 Stars are visible at night in average.

https://youtu.be/AlBGOBJcmYc?t=11m1s

Sword of Seals/Binding Blade confirmed superior to all other Holy Weapons, who made the feat above.

Imo, # of Stars multiplied by Difference between dawrf star and Star Level = Our new AP and Durability.

Distance between the earth´s surface= New Range.

-

Fire Emblem Warriors

Chaos Dragon has:

Space-Time Manipulation (Can create Outrealm Gates, his death caused everyone to return to their proper space and time), Portal Creation (Outrealm Gates), Darkness Manipulation or Energy Projection via "Weapons", Flight, Electricity Manipulation

Glaring weaknesses: Doesn't fight seriously for quite a while, Loses his ability to create Outrealm Gates upon taking enough damage

Warriors Lyn has:

https://youtu.be/Y36Taf1OYBY?t=41m16s

Lyn literally summons the Chaos Dragon on her own.

So Warriors Lyn should have summoning and possibly an AP advantage.


Best Girl

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

Wasn't the ending winter caused by the combined power of the weapons overwriting the laws of physics or something?If you're gonna apply a DC value to something like that I imagine it'd be higher than star or solar system level anyway.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Well, it is also the Ending Winter that gave FE7/6 their current AP ratings.

This is just an straight upgrade imo.

But the total result should be divided by 8 since that is the number of holy weapons.

The Sword of Seals is considered stronger than all of them, so Roy and Hartmut get the full upgrade.

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

Pretty sure their current ratings are based on the false premise that the weapons just screwed up the climate as opposed to that merely being a side effect to what they really did.As the intro to Binding Blade puts it "the very laws of nature itself were twisted and distorted".

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Well, The stars shining that much is also a side effect of that.

How much power do you need for that?

And the SoS is stronger than than all of them.

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

• Shrugs*If I were to apply an AP rating for completely overturning the laws of physics I'd guess somewhere around 3-A personally.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

What?

Woah, i think that might be a bit too much. I mean, the dragon boy said only the stars they could see were as bright as the sun.


But, Universe Level? Thats...Thats incredible...!

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

I mean,if you're gonna apply AP to overwriting the fundamental laws of reality at all what else would you put it at?

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Well, you´ve raised my outcome tier list.


S - 3-A

A- 4-B

B- 4-C


Lets just see how stuff goes, but if they do agree that would be the AP, well, that,ll be the AP.


Damn, Universal Fire Emblem? Sounds dreamlike.

 

[Antvasima]

You should check here for people knowledgeable about this verse, and ask them to evaluate this and reply here.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm rather tired at the moment, but I'll come back in the morning to check. But yeah, there seems to be a lot of iffy things here. I don't think the Divine weapons actually caused the stars to glow; it's more so it manipulation the Earth's atmosphere, clouds, and weather, to the point where those stars were visible; that was already calc'd at Multi-Continent level. Although, it is true that the Divine Weapons caused it and the Sealed Sword should outrank their combined powers. But @JustSomeWeirdo kinda thought it was all 9 of them that manipulated, but iirc, the Sealed Sword wasn't made till later, and it single handedly ended the Ending Winter, but there could be something I'm missing. And either way, 53 Petatons / 9 = 5.889 petatons, which is still High 6-A as opposed to just 6-A so that should be changed again.

Anyway, as I said, I'm rather tired, but you guys could politely ask Reppuza, JustSomeWeirdo, or DarkAnine, for input.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

>They did not make the stars shine in the middle of the day Dude, the dragon boy literally says they did it jut as they did it with the other weather manipulation stuff.

You cant just say it was because of manipulating the earth's atnosphere if that is not referenced at all in the game.

If he said "The Holy weapons moved the clouds and changed the atmosphere to the point it looked like the stars were shining in the middle of the day", i would agree.

But no, i strongly think they did increase the energy of those stars, thus, i want an ap upgrade, since both ap ratings are based on the same thing, the ending winter.

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

Yeah,saying it was just screwing with the climate is blatant downplay just because you don't like how strong it makes the verse.There is literally no way to alter the atmosphere so that stars shine in the damn daytime without literally breaking physics in half.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

You said it pal.

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

Honestly,FE as a whole is a complete mess on this site.It's mired by double standards(5+low kiloton feats are apparently all outliers whereas 2 arguable star level feats in Zelda,one of which is based on a mistranslation,are apparently 100% legit and scale to everyone despite no other feats coming even within the same general ball park)intentional downplaying because guys don't like the idea of it being strong(see Anankos reality warping an entire planet in a different universe being city level because the world had a city in it.Yeah,and king Piccolo is building level for destroying a city which had a building in it)and so called "FE Experts" which I'm pretty sure just translates to "I 100%'d Awakening,a game that's pretty loose with established lore so I'm obviously an expert on the entire series".(See literally Medeus's entire profile and to a lesser degree Tiki's too.)


Truth be told,I was actually in the process of gathering screenshots for a massive series wide revision thread(Because no way would any of the good stuff get accepted without overwhelming proof in favor of it.)so this actually makes things easier for me.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Well, I agree. They do ban people who directly argue with the "Experts".

But i really dont think Anankos should be Universe level, no other feat in the game goes even close to it and it could just be a pocket dimension, which can vary in size, i mean, can we be sure there is something else in there aside from the final boss stage?

But lets not change the subject for now, lets make a Fates revision thread later, alright?

And well, i do remember a friend of mine had a calc that made FE6/7 MFTL due to dodging Aureola, but it was rejected because she was banned.

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

It being in a different universe is only really indicative of range tbh.Also pretty sure Aureola can only ever be used against the cast in a noncanon multiplayer mode.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Well, yeah. But it could also be potentially dodged by enemies, thats why it should obviously scale. imo.


Anyways. I think we should focus on the 4-B to 3-A Upgrade for FE7/6 for now.

If we just add more topics, it will just cause chaos.


Also, i think i missed that. Does Anankos or anyone wise in fates claim it is an alternate universe or is it just based on the design of the room you fight him in?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@12cheeper and @Kyle Ramos, please don't accuse people of not liking the idea; it isn't about that, it's merely concern and consistency. Anyway, it simply says, "The stars were shining midday, there is actually no proof one way or the other that the Divine Weapons actually manipulated the stars. Nor is their any proof that it bends all laws of physics.

No, we don't necessarily ban users for debating with the staff/experts, it's more so that we ban them for harassing/insulting those said members and staff whether it's on or off site. Anyway, I do feel your opinions of Fire Emblem character ratings seems a bit too inconsistent @12cheeper. Looking at history, you once tried to upgrade Medeus and Grima to Planet level a long time ago and called everyone who disagreed downplayers, and then you started cussing people up and calling people who upgraded City level Grima to Country level wankers? And now you're back to saying FE 6 and 7 god tiers are 4-B to 3-A, despite you suggesting a while back that you thought High 6-A divine weapons were wanked? Hope it's not too offensive to bring it up, but calling people wankers or downplayers is extremely rude, and you've already got multiple warnings about that.

Anyway, a lot of us actually really like the series, so I'd be all for an upgrade if it was what I actually liked; but the fact is, that's not how it works. The description I made just makes much more sense; why would a causing an ice age on a global scale be a Solar System level feat let alone a Universe level feat? I've yet to play Fire Emblem Warriors, so I got nothing at that just yet; but Ashunera is supposedly the most powerful character in any of the main universes of Fire Emblem, and her best feat is only High 6-A to Low 5-B; in which the low end was accepted more.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

I never, ever said High 6-A was wanked.

Never.

JSW is the one who got every FE7/6 character with holy weapons down to 6-A with his own calc. (I dont wanna start a fight, but he considered the calc at Narutoforums wrong yet he is using that same page for the High 6-A rankings for Ike and the Tellius god tiers without question.)


And well, making aprox 9093 stars shine as bright as the point of being visible thru the day is very likely to enter the star to solar system range.

And 12chep stated breaking the laws of physics on that scale could also be 3-A. (Ask him for more details, im the 4-B guy here)

Thats why there is a range. He says maybe 3-A and i say maybe 4-B.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It wasn't you, but 12cheeper said something about that on another thread; the thought the Fire Emblem Fodder should just be street level because "it takes them multiple hits on a cracked wall to knock it down". And also mentioned that then Ending Winter lost their power overtime and wanted to downgrade Idoun a long time ago; then again, his opinions on FE characters have been very inconsistent.

I know it was JSW who slightly downgraded the Divine Weapons, and it was because Continent as opposed to Multi-Continent was mention of the NF blog; calc was made before Multi-Continent level existed as an official tier might be why. But still, dividing that resulted number by 9 would still be slightly above baseline High 6-A, but I'll link the thread to him.

There's still no proof that the Divine Weapons effecting things beyond the planetary scale, plus the Continent to Planet surface statements are far more consistent. It clearly refers to the Dark Dragon as being a planetary threat rather than a universal/solar system threat. And even the, it's more so the dragons wipe out all life on the planet rather than blow up the entire planet all the way to the core. Bending all laws of physics on a universal scale? As much as I want to see it, it seems very highly doubtful.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

I dont really see the problem with 4-B FE6/7 at least imo.

They do say Idoun is at least a threat to the (pangea sized) continent of Elibe. This could be ranged from Continent level to basically infinity.

What i am saying is, Multi Continent Level swords and Solar System swords pretty much behave the same way in the plot.

A "threat" to anything basically ranges from what can destroy it or damage it all the way to infinity.

-

And FE6/7´s technology is limited and Roy and pals mostly only know about one continent, why would they care about the solar system being destroyed over the continent?

Its pretty much the same imo.

God Goku blowing up the conntinent (Alongside the universe) and the ending winter have the same amounnt of "threatness" in the eyes of the FE6/7 gang imo, since they would only care about the little they know.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Actually

The original calc did put the individual weapons at 6-A

 

[Dark649]

Agree with Weirdo, also tier 6 is the best tier i can allow for canon Fire Emblem.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Well, the Naruto Forums blog was 53 point something Petatons or 5.3 * 10^16 tons; which is High 6-A for the high end; and like Low 6-B for the low end. Continent level is 760 teratons to 4.435 petatons; dividing the calc by 8 or 9 would still be above 4.435, which is the requirement for High 6-A as opposed to 6-A. Unless there's another calc not linked on the verses page that was only 6-A.

But yeah, the Tier 4 to Tier 3 stuff is way too exaggerated.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

(The link is broken for the ashunera and elibe weapons.)

The Sword of Seals is stated in the video on the OP to be stronger than all of the 8 weapons combined, so at least Roy should be upgraded back to High 6-A.


But aside from that, i dont really see tier 4 to be exaggerated. It is as much as a threat to the continent as Multi Continent Level is, and it was directly stated ingame.

The stars did shine to the poinnt of being visible during the day due to the power of the Holy weapons. And the video in the OP proves it.


I think that it is necessary to have this calced asap.

(Power needed to make a single star shine as much as our normal sun) * 9096 (Average stars visible at night) / 8 (Holy Weapons)

Sword of Seals ignores the last division, since it is also stated to be stronger than all of the holy weapons combined.


@Dark

What do you mean with "allow"?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

It'd be planetary at best. And that's being very optimistic.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

We need to do a calc, then.

I am optimistic it is gonna be higher than just planetary.

Does anybody have any ideas on how to calc this?

 

[Dark649]

The stars thing is likely bad translation or referring that their chance to win shone, i also think that's an outlier.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Do you even have a reason to doubt the translation is right? Were did you get the "Chance to win" stuf? Why would it be an outlier when the weapons are already continent level?

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

https://youtu.be/b2nBZAyopNY?t=9m23s

Looking thru the Japanese versionn of the conversation.

Edit-

Changed the URL to the moment the line is actually said. "Sekai wo katachi zukuru "Chitsujo" ga kuzure hajimeta no da"

The "Order" to form the world began to collapse (Google Translate)

"Sono Yuka natsu ni yuki ga ori hiru ga yoru ni naru."

As a result, it will snow in the summer and daytime will shine like night. (Google Translate)

English Transcript for FE6

https://www.gamefaqs.com/gba/563015-fire-emblem-fuuin-no-tsurugi/faqs/26673

Chapter 24, after capturing the Third pillar.


Well, Good games.

Confirmed not a mistranslation.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

bump

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

@12cheeper and @Kyle Ramos, please don't accuse people of not liking the idea; it isn't about that, it's merely concern and consistency. Anyway, it simply says, "The stars were shining midday, there is actually no proof one way or the other that the Divine Weapons actually manipulated the stars. Nor is their any proof that it bends all laws of physics.
No, we don't necessarily ban users for debating with the staff/experts, it's more so that we ban them for harassing/insulting those said members and staff whether it's on or off site. Anyway, I do feel your opinions of Fire Emblem character ratings seems a bit too inconsistent @12cheeper. Looking at history, you once tried to upgrade Medeus and Grima to Planet level a long time ago and called everyone who disagreed downplayers, and then you started cussing people up and calling people who upgraded City level Grima to Country level wankers? And now you're back to saying FE 6 and 7 god tiers are 4-B to 3-A, despite you suggesting a while back that you thought High 6-A divine weapons were wanked? Hope it's not too offensive to bring it up, but calling people wankers or downplayers is extremely rude, and you've already got multiple warnings about that.

Anyway, a lot of us actually really like the series, so I'd be all for an upgrade if it was what I actually liked; but the fact is, that's not how it works. The description I made just makes much more sense; why would a causing an ice age on a global scale be a Solar System level feat let alone a Universe level feat? I've yet to play Fire Emblem Warriors, so I got nothing at that just yet; but Ashunera is supposedly the most powerful character in any of the main universes of Fire Emblem, and her best feat is only High 6-A to Low 5-B; in which the low end was accepted more.

Honestly?Given how inconsistent the standards on this site are I was just seeing if you'd actually accept that stuff.Also?Causing a global winter is not what the legendary weapons did.If it was,the dragons wouldn't have lost their ability to maintain their draconic forms.As in,the reason that humanity won the scouring.It is explicitly mentioned that it was because they distorted the laws of nature.

And yes,I'm sorry.Truly the knowledgable members really do understand the series.Looking back at Medeus's profile again it really is accurate and consistent with the lore.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Also, like i said above, it is not a mistranslation.


Where in the hell did you get stuff about victory, Dark?

The dragon literally talked about the order of the world collapsing.

I think you are intentionally trying to deceive people.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Know he's not, it has been discussed and debunked numerous times on previous threads. So anything above Tier 6 is not going to happen anytime soon, sorry. Anyway, Dark649 is a very hard working Admin here who helps out with many verses and profiles, so we'd really appreciate it if you drop the assumptions/attacks towards the staff.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

I dont want to attack him.

But i will ask him about that stuff about how their "chance to win" shone.

Where did he get that from? why did he assume it was a mistranslation?


I have given proof beyond doubt that the game was not mistranslated and that his claims seem to have the intent to create doubt about the proof provided.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

If giving the same energy output, then few hundred gigtons. I multiplied the value of the joules/second of energy the sun released on the earth and multiplied it by the number given (nothing implies all the stars in the night sky, btw, so I gave you the benefit of the doubt). Luminosity would be different, however, and would yield something in tier 5 maybe (literally just going off of the Srtemis calc for that one)

Yet, looking at the translation, seems more like unquantifiable reality warping to make eternal night, as it implies that the more macabre elements (like the cold and the night) are taking over when they shouldn't. Note how in the same sentence, it says it's snowing in the summer. For that to happen, the snow doesn't need to be cold enough to withstand the heat. It just has to be 0 degrees Celsius or lower. It's the same case for the second half of the sentence: you don't need to make the stars bright enough to surpass the sun's luminosity. You just need it to be dark, which can be done in a plethora of ways. Heck, it says that daytime will shine like night, which...doesn't shine brighter than daytime, which then implies that the shine is going down.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Thats why its fiction.

Do you think messing up with the laws of physics makes sense? No.

Its a game were dragons and magic tomes exist.


Also, i do wish to see the calculation you made.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

The sun releases 3.8e+26 Joules of energy every second.

Energy that hits the Earth = 3.8e26* half of the surface area of Earth / Surface area of a sphere with radius equal to 1 AU

E = 3.8e26* 2¤Çr^2 / 4¤ÇR^2 = 3.8e26* 1/2* (r/R)^2 = 1.9e26* (6371000/149600000000)^2

E = 1.9e26*0.0000000018

E = 3.42e17 Joules per second, 81.73 Megatons

(Everything from up above was taken from another accepted calc)

81.73*9096=743416 Megatons=743.42 Gigatons

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Wouldnt the stars shining as much as the sun also asume all stars visible from earth became as powerful as the sun?

Wouldnt most of these stars be at least dawrf star level before the Ending Winter inncreased their luminosity/Power?

It just seems way too fishy that increasing the power of around 9000 stars is not even small counntry level.

How much is the difference between Dwarf Star level and regular star level again?