[FINALS] Asuna Kamakura & Javen vs Laser Frogman and Dr. Hecate [0-0-0]

[SSB64]

That is absolute bs, you know Asuna is nowhere close to being close to as smart as Hecate

How is this bullcrap? I did the research, found the evidence, and discovered this detail. What evidence do you have to debunk this?

Hecate has the higher IQ (IE, Hecate has a higher intellect ceiling), but Asuna can make many more calculations than Hecate, and thus close that gap to some degree.

Also, I didn't say Asuna was smarter. I said she has faster processing speed, and could close that several hundred times gap of intellect with it. In other words, Hecate can make one intelligent calc in the time in takes Asuna to make hundreds of less intelligent calcs (I'm not saying Asuna is dumb, far from it.)

 

[SSB64]

Also if you feel so strongly that they’ll win, clearly they are more op and the better team, why don’t you call for their dq now

As everyone has been saying, that's behind us now.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Nice dodge, you could be a politician

How is this bullcrap? I did the research, found the evidence, and discovered this detail. What evidence do you have to debunk this?

Compare their intelligence sections

Also, I didn't say Asuna was smarter. I said she has faster processing speed, and could close that several hundred times gap of intellect with it. In other words, Hecate can make one intelligent calc in the time in takes Asuna to make hundreds of less intelligent calcs (I'm not saying Asuna is dumb, far from it.)

Massive reach, she isn’t anywhere close to Hecate in any facet of the mind

 

[Rayfire]

I did some research, and uh..... Funny story Venefica. Turns out, her brain speed of sextillions of calculations per second..... Actually isn't as impressive as may of us (Including myself), actually thought it'd be. She'd only be several hundred to several thousand times faster than the average human processing speed. Meanwhile, Asuna dodging hundreds of thousands of projectiles alongside her speed amps would actually make Asuna faster in processing speed than Hecate, and especially Frogman (Who caps at trillions from what I know). So oddly enough, Hecate has the higher IQ (IE, Hecate has a higher intellect ceiling), but Asuna can make many more calculations than Hecate, and thus close that gap to some degree. I had no idea about this until I did research into the potential of the human brain.

There is simply no way Asuna is as smart as Hecate.

It’s true she’d be able to think and react faster with speed amps, obviously, but this source doesn’t literally mean we can do a bajillion calculations per second like a NASA supercomputer. It sounds more like neuron activity than anything considering humans have craploads of them. As a human myself, i can confirm that there's no way i could even take in this amount of information consciously let alone calculate it all lol, Why do you think humans can't beat top-tier chess bots anymore for example... I can barely beat some of the intermediate bots lol

Hecate is compared to supercomputers because, well, she can do all of it better than any supercomputer, because hecate is beyond any real world human Asuna is pretty well into genius in terms of battle iq, yeah, but she's nowhere near top-tier in PoW yet, nor does she have a neuron chip like hecate does. Saying that she's extraordinary genius is also kinda disingenious to her character, since with this sort of intelligence she'd have no problem developing new skills at all and her character development would be kinda crappy if she's op and doesn't struggle with anything from the start

That said, intelligence is only one piece of the puzzle here...

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Hecate processes faster/better than a whole room of advanced super computers, so…

 

[Rayfire]

Saying that she's extraordinary genius is also kinda disingenious to her character, since with this sort of intelligence she'd have no problem developing new skills at all and her character development would be kinda crappy if she's op and doesn't struggle with anything from the start

In fact this was kinda why haruka was introduced. She'll do way more later on, but she is a reminder that asuna still isn't invincible, as gifted in terms of willpower she is in a world that runs on it Asuna beat her by a hair.

 

[SSB64]

Nice dodge, you could be a politician

If anyone is trying to engage in an argument now, it's you. I've already stopped. So let's just ease ourselves, okay?

 

[SSB64]

Hecate is compared to supercomputers because, well, she can do all of it better than any supercomputer, because hecate is beyond any real world human Asuna is pretty well into genius in terms of battle iq, yeah, but she's nowhere near top-tier in PoW yet, nor does she have a neuron chip like hecate does. Saying that she's extraordinary genius is also kinda disingenious to her character, since with this sort of intelligence she'd have no problem developing new skills at all and her character development would be kinda crappy if she's op and doesn't struggle with anything from the start

That said, intelligence is only one piece of the puzzle here...

Can Asuna massively upscale dodging thousands of projectiles within a very short timeframe not counting her speed boosts?

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

If anyone is trying to engage in an argument now, it's you. I've already stopped. So let's just ease ourselves, okay?

No this isn’t any argument kinda thing I was just under the impression that we were doing things fair here and that the tourney rules gotta be fair and all, and with the word DQ being thrown around a lot lately I was just wondering… You clearly don’t think of frogate as the most op group anymore considering you voted for the other team, so I was just kinda wondering where all that went, you know, the whole sentiment is sort of lacking consistency right now

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

To be fair they did say they were gonna vote for the other team before the match even started lol

 

[SSB64]

Compare their intelligence sections

Read my point again. "Actually isn't as impressive as many of us (Including myself), actually thought it'd be."

In fact this was kinda why haruka was introduced. She'll do way more later on, but she is a reminder that asuna still isn't invincible, as gifted in terms of willpower she is in a world that runs on it Asuna beat her by a hair.

This would just upscale Haruka to Asuna.

Massive reach, she isn’t anywhere close to Hecate in any facet of the mind

Evidence? Simply saying "No" isn't evidence.

You clearly don’t think of frogate as the most op group anymore considering you voted for the other team, so I was just kinda wondering where all that went, you know, the whole sentiment is sort of lacking consistency right now

That's just one piece of it. I'm looking for an Asunaven W since if Frogate win, it means that the duo who cheated the Tourney and threw me to the curb, won, which would not be fair in the slightest.

 

[SSB64]

To be fair they did say they were gonna vote for the other team before the match even started lol

Actually.....

It doesn't exactly matter. Even after the arguments, I'm voting Asunaven anyways.

Yeah you're right, Eden.

 

[Rayfire]

Can Asuna massively upscale dodging thousands of projectiles within a very short timeframe not counting her speed boosts?

I mean, there's always Reactive Evolution if we don't count her other ways of defending. I think if she tried she definitely could, but it's not instant. It'll still take her a bit of time. This fight might be pretty quick anyway if Asuna & Javen bring out their trump cards in response to all these moves from frogate though, which is why i haven't brought it up. I think it could be a factor if Frogate somehow survive a good use of [Fortune] though

This would just upscale Haruka to Asuna.

It was more of a writing-based thing, it's cool if you didn't mean she was smarter necesarily btw although i've been saying that Reaction Speed isn't really the same as Processing speed since the latter is usually derivative of brain power in fiction. Hecate's whole thing in V.Verse is intelligence and it's hard for me to see asuna having faster processing speed in this case

 

[SSB64]

I mean, there's always Reactive Evolution if we don't count her other ways of defending. I think if she tried she definitely could, but it's not instant. It'll still take her a bit of time. This fight might be pretty quick anyway if Asuna & Javen bring out their trump cards in response to all these moves from frogate though, which is why i haven't brought it up. I think it could be a factor if Frogate somehow survive a good use of [Fortune] though

I say this because if Asuna doesn't have relative processing speeds to Hecate, she's getting instantly smoked by the Golden Laser Storm the moment Hecate uses it (Not even taking into account Frogman's kit), because Asuna wouldn't be able to process it fast enough. And yes. Instinct originates from the brain much like intelligence does. Part of instinct is that you're able to register something coming through your brain and then avoid it accordingly. Without that, Asuna would crash into walls and the ground from not being able to process her own speed, and she especially can't register the Golden Laser Storm coming at her within a fraction of a second. And remember. Simply dodging it isn't enough. You need to be well clear of every single laser for it to not immediately kill Asuna, all while they can home in on her. The only thing that's able to process things this fast is a supercomputer, if not, more than such.

In other words, her being at or above supercomputer processing speed is a necessity in order for this fight not to be a Frogate STOMP due to the Golden Laser Storm outpacing her.

 

[Rayfire]

I say this because if Asuna doesn't have relative processing speeds to Hecate, she's getting instantly smoked by the Golden Laser Storm the moment Hecate uses it (Not even taking into account Frogman's kit), because Asuna wouldn't be able to process it fast enough. And yes. Instinct originates from the brain much like intelligence does. Part of instinct is that you're able to register something coming through your brain and then avoid it accordingly. Without that, Asuna would crash into walls and the ground from not being able to process her own speed, and she especially can't register the Golden Laser Storm coming at her within a fraction of a second. And remember. Simply dodging it isn't enough. You need to be well clear of every single laser for it to not immediately kill Asuna, all while they can home in on her. The only thing that's able to process things this fast is a supercomputer, if not, more than such.

In other words, her being at or above supercomputer processing speed is a necessity in order for this fight not to be a Frogate STOMP due to the Golden Laser Storm outpacing her.

Bruh it's not like she's completely screwed, she'd still have some great reaction speeds plus precog, since i believe frogman is the only one who negates it (And even then frogman has never negated instinctive action, nor can he mask killing intent...)

I don't know what you mean by she'd crash into walls lol, in canon she's never had that happen, she's more than capable of moving that fast with her amps active...

Ignoring other defenses like [Intangible], [Fortune], or clones using [Reversal], it's also not even in-character for hecate to use them straight away. It's implied she only uses them against someone who reminds her of the people who sent her to the insitution

Hecate calls them her 'ultimate revenge' on anyone who reminds her of the ones who sent her to the institution, destroying at a sub-atomic level.

Asuven have came this far without being cooked, i've already addressed this ability before I'm sure this won't happen.

 

[SSB64]

she'd still have some great reaction speeds plus precog

Reaction speeds are based on processing speeds or Instinct, and they both counter Precog so hard, it's not even funny.

I don't know what you mean by she'd crash into walls lol, in canon she's never had that happen, she's more than capable of moving that fast with her amps active...

In order for this to be true, she needs the processing speeds necessary to acknowledge the wall and not hit it by dodging. Without it, she'd crash into it.

Asuven have came this far without being cooked, i've already addressed this ability before I'm sure this won't happen.

If that's the case, then how do Frogate even hope to win? The laser weapon that could be made to be Anti-Fortune? Because according to you, Asunaven should easily be able to put a stop to it. But then again, if she can't, she's instantly screwed.....

Basically, now that I think about it, it just sounds like they both STOMP each other out, and the result is simply all up to interpretation of the contestants. No matter how good of arguments there seems to be, the other side has a perfect counter to it. This is also part of why I've been constantly ping-ponging back and forth between either side winning.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Basically, now that I think about it, it just sounds like they both STOMP each other out, and the result is simply all up to interpretation of the contestants. No matter how good of arguments there seems to be, the other side has a perfect counter to it. This is also part of why I've been constantly ping-ponging back and forth between either side winning.

It’s just wincons

 

[SSB64]

It’s just wincons

It certainly doesn't feel that way. It feels like when a character here has their perfect wincon, they have to negate the opponent's advantages in order for it to work. Otherwise, the other side gets their perfect wincon. That's how it feels to me, and hence why my thoughts on the winner keep radically changing constantly.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

It certainly doesn't feel that way. It feels like when a character here has their perfect wincon, they have to negate the opponent's advantages in order for it to work. Otherwise, the other side gets their perfect wincon. That's how it feels to me, and hence why my thoughts on the winner keep radically changing constantly.

In that case isn’t it incon

 

[Rayfire]

It certainly doesn't feel that way. It feels like when a character here has their perfect wincon, they have to negate the opponent's advantages in order for it to work. Otherwise, the other side gets their perfect wincon. That's how it feels to me, and hence why my thoughts on the winner keep radically changing constantly.

Isn’t this just every vs debate ever lol, I feel like you have to point out a problem with an opponent strategy/wincon if you see one, otherwise it’s not really a debate… If I didn’t try to justify why I think X from frogate wouldn’t work and why X from asuven would, this would have ended in like 6 replies or something lol

Froggy is not going to be happy at all at this rate. I’ll likely refrain from replying soon cause the amount of replies here that is accumulating is unfathomable

I feel like people should draw their own conclusions about this rather than going straight to incon. Incon is certainly possible with Hecate having at least some form of immediate probability manipulation of her own even if I feel it’s fairly limited in terms of range and whatnot, as well as the sandbox thing (Although if Hecate using her processing power, Asuna will instantly know what’s up, since she doesn’t resist info analysis) although nobody else seems to be going in this direction, cause so far it’s 3 votes to asuven and 2 to frogate. I think there’d have to be some pretty good weight behind incon other than some scenario’s out of countless others for everyone to vote for it.

 

[SSB64]

Isn’t this just every vs debate ever lol, I feel like you have to point out a problem with an opponent strategy/wincon if you see one, otherwise it’s not really a debate… If I didn’t try to justify why I think X from frogate wouldn’t work and why X from asuven would, this would have ended in like 6 replies or something lol

Froggy is not going to be happy at all at this rate. I’ll likely refrain from replying soon cause the amount of replies here that is accumulating is unfathomable

I feel like people should draw their own conclusions about this rather than going straight to incon. Incon is certainly possible with Hecate having at least some form of immediate probability manipulation of her own even if I feel it’s fairly limited in terms of range and whatnot, as well as the sandbox thing (Although if Hecate using her processing power, Asuna will instantly know what’s up, since she doesn’t resist info analysis) although nobody else seems to be going in this direction, cause so far it’s 3 votes to asuven and 2 to frogate. I think there’d have to be some pretty good weight behind incon other than some scenario’s out of countless others for everyone to vote for it.

I'm sticking with Asunaven based on what was mentioned before regardless.

 

[SSB64]

Isn’t this just every vs debate ever lol, I feel like you have to point out a problem with an opponent strategy/wincon if you see one, otherwise it’s not really a debate… If I didn’t try to justify why I think X from frogate wouldn’t work and why X from asuven would, this would have ended in like 6 replies or something lol

The issue with this is that, from personal debating experience, I've usually had opinion fluctuations during one rarely, if ever, even in Asunaven Vs Cold Destiny.

In this specific one however, I feel like my opinion keeps changing every message or two, and IDK why.