• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Final Fantasy 7 Fix Part 3: Hax and The Power of the Lifestream

Status
Not open for further replies.
5,658
4,892
Welcome to the final part of the ff7 verse fix. Today we will be discussing some minor hax additions, and some controversial. Without further ado:

Hax

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Cyberblader9/Will_and_Emotions_in_FF7

  • All first-class Soldiers have Memory Manipulation and Empowerment via being able to tap into their memories and past experiences to gain abilities and increased power.

Sephiroth gains Spatial manipulation by destroying the dimension he creates with Supernova. He also shows this ability by making a portal to the singularity by cutting space itself, which is another dimension "between" the Lifestream. Sephiroth most likely used this ability to enter Ifrit's dimension in order to save Zack, well before he entered the Lifestream.
  • Here, upon summons, Ifrit drags Zack Fair into its own dimension.
  • Here, Sephiroth intercepts and slices through Ifrit's thrown fireball after breaking his way into Ifrit's dimension.
Furthermore, the cast should gain Resistance to Spatial Manipulation for being able to survive it (Supernova). This is supported by Sephiroth being able to survive hits from Knights of the Round, who also have Spatial Manipulation for destroying their pocket dimension with the shockwaves of their strikes alone.


All summons gain BFR for being able to draw foes into their own dimensions, and characters gain Low Multiversal range via summoning. It should be noted that all summons have these dimensions, not just the ones shown in the Original Game.

https://thelifestream.net/lifestrea...risis-core-complete-guide-keyword-collection/
Summoned Beasts
Beings which are called forth from summon materia, many of which outwardly resemble monsters. As seen in the original game of FFVII, many of the summon beasts draw their targets into their own unique space in order to attack.



As is already accepted on the pages, the Remove spell sends foes into the Void. For this reason, characters should gain Low Multiversal range with BFR.


Magic is 4D

I was asked to add this part to the crt a while back. Please read this part VERY CAREFULLY


So, thanks to the FF7 Ultimania Omega, we know that Spirit Energy is not just a concept that exists on Planet Gaia. Rather, it is actually a concept that permeates throughout the entirety of the Final Fantasy 7 universe.

20210317_143529.jpg
20210404_151710.jpg


As confirmed here, the Universe itself is a large body of spiritual energy, much like the planet itself. As has been established as well, a body of spiritual energy constantly grows over time due to its natural cycle, and this is something that is also stated within the scan. The universe, once it gains enough energy, creates a smaller mass that causes a big bang and creates a new universe. It should also be noted that the different dimensions of Final Fantasy are already established and accepted to be separate space-times. The lifestream itself isn't special from normal spirit energy, either. It's just the total of spirit energy that exists within the planet itself.

But let's go a bit further.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...24660/Sledgeworm_from_FFVII_Remake_render.jpg

This is the Sledgeworm, a rather non-descript enemy. But its bestiary entry is quite interesting.

"An autonomous antipersonnel weapon manufactured by Shinra's Advanced Weaponry Division. Able to warp space-time and seemingly disappear into thin air. It warps close to targets and strikes with its hammer."

Even the fodder machinery created by Shinra utilizes Spirit Energy, which is able to warp space and time itself. But, there's more. Let's talk about the Lifestream. This comes from the novel, "The Maiden who Travels the Planet", which is considered to be canon by this wiki.

20210321_103947.jpg


The Lifestream here is stated to have different concepts of time and distance, as well as the passing of time having no meaning in the first place. The narration also states things like events recorded within the Lifestream surpassing time itself, lending even more credence to the main thesis. As noted before, the Lifestream isn't special from other spirit energy, this is just its natural properties.

This qualifies for several things.

  • All spirit energy-based abilities become inherently 4D by nature, scaling both to the potency of their Hax and Resistances.
  • The cast gains Acausality (Type 4) for their usage of spirit energy and inherent connection to the Lifestream.
  • All magic inherently gains:
    • Soul Manipulation, Information Manipulation, Memory Manipulation, and Space-Time Manipulation: Magic is powered by Spirit Energy, which is made up of souls, knowledge, and memories crystallized into materia or condensed into mako energy. Spirit Energy is capable of causing big bangs and creating pocket dimensions in a large enough quantity and can be used to warp space and time. (Explained above).

Potential issues:

1.

This is the early version of the lore of FFVII that went unused. Some things do coincide with the final version of the story, such as the cycle of life and the process repeating through the universe, but the big escalation that the Lifestream eventually births new universes or how people have such potential is not necessarily present in the finished story.

Despite this, the elements may actually be present to a degree:

Summons make their entire realms from spirit energy, which includes bahamut fury creating a multi solar sized realm from it:

The novel shown above incorporates elements from the early material, on how the life stream works.

Remake may also support this, as it shows time being interconnected via the lifestream, as made evident with kadaj, loz, and yazoo being in the present as whispers:
EXvkHoFXsAQ1dx1


The Ultimania implies that these three are probably Kadaj, Loz, & Yazoo as they are beings that come to exist in the future, not present.
IMG_20210520_004917.jpg


2. Acausality (Type 4) may not be correct for the cast, besides maybe Sephiroth. The whole point of the remake was to show cloud and co are bound by the inverse system of fate, the Whispers. Sephiroth himself seems immune to their regulation of fate, and has come to seemingly control them (even absorbing them) at the end of the remake.

Context for this in this thread:

Explained here why this isnt an issue:



Conclusion

Sephiroth and the main ff7 party (cloud and co) get resistance to spatial hax.
Sephiroth gains spatial hax.
First class soldiers Memory Manipulation and Empowerment
Summons gain bfr, and users of the remove materia and summons gain low multiversal range for bfr.

The potency of magic needs to be discussed, and decided what hax is given to characters from the recommended list.


Huge thanks to Tarta and Corrin

Add on:

Resistance to fate manipulation for cloud and co and sephiroth:
 
Last edited:
On the Acausality thing;

The whispers being able to affect them shouldn't be a reason to debunk them; fate manipulation that works on acausals is a relatively common thing, archie sonic and persona both come to mind. Also the party ends up defeating the whispers at the end of the remake anyway.

That said, I agree on everything present, especially the 4D magic and Type 4 acausality as I'm the one who wrote that in the first place.
 
Hmmm

Would the cast being able to murder The whispers in the remake Grant some sort of resistance to fate manipulation?
 
Depends if there are any statements for fated to live forever or something yet are killed. Or they have some job/fate manip that must require them to be alive but that was prevented from materializing by being killed.

Otherwise no.
 
Depends if there are any statements for fated to live forever or something yet are killed. Or they have some job/fate manip that must require them to be alive but that was prevented from materializing by being killed.

Otherwise no.
Well the ways whispers work is that they dictate fate how fate goes.

Barret being killed by sephiroth was undone by him because he was not fated to die. Likewise, remake reveals they are responsible for zack's death:


When cloud kills the arbiters of fate, it seemingly changes events, which is later proven true when zack survives his encounter with shinra. (Whispers are even scene here, observing so everything goes as fated.)

Whispers/Feelers: An accretion of Whispers, the so-called arbiters of fate. The creatures appear when someone tries to alter destiny's course. They are connected to all the threads of time and space that shape the planet's fate.

Whispers (フィーラー, Fīrā?, lit. Feeler), also known as the arbiters of fate (運命の番人, Unmei no Banin?, lit. keepers of fate), are beings born of the planet said to enforce the course of destiny. They appear in large gatherings whenever events stray too far from fate's intended path.

The Whispers appear whenever events start to diverge from the original plot of Final Fantasy VII. According to Whisper Harbinger's description, they appear "when someone tries to alter destiny's course"; that someone is implied to be Sephiroth. The only person who seems to understand what the beings are is Aerith. Because of the apparent connection between the Whispers and Aerith, she seems to have knowledge of the original Final Fantasy VII timeline; she knew Cloud Strife was a mercenary, but she hid this knowledge by claiming she guessed from his weapon. She knew Cloud was in SOLDIER even though he had not told her yet and knew Marlene's name without Tifa telling her. She knew Barret was Marlene's father when she called out for "daddy", and even warned Cloud from falling in love with her because it would only cause him pain. She knew Red XIII was their ally even if he was acting aggressively, and when she placed her hand on his head, he gained knowledge of the Whispers and was able to relay it to the others.

Cloud and friends follow and end up in a distorted version of a destroyed Midgar, where the Whispers combine into a Weapon-like colossus that spawns three constructs with the ability to merge into a Bahamut-like form. Throughout the battle, they show images of events that will occur: Aerith's death, Meteor hurtling toward Midgar, and an older Red XIII overlooking the ruins of Midgar.

The Whispers' defeat creates deviations to the timeline: Biggs survives the plate collapse, while Zack Fair survives "his last stand" and brings Cloud to Midgar, later visiting the Sector 5 church looking for Aerith. Aerith is unsure what the future will hold, as the sky above them is unknown. Sephiroth is motivated by his will to defy destiny and seems to have goaded Cloud and his friends into fighting the Whispers to open a path to a new future.
 
Well the ways whispers work is that they dictate fate how fate goes.

Barret being killed by sephiroth was undone by him because he was not fated to die. Likewise, remake reveals they are responsible for zack's death:


When cloud kills the arbiters of fate, it seemingly changes events, which is later proven true when zack survives his encounter with shinra. (Whispers are even scene here, observing so everything goes as fated.)



Whispers (フィーラー, Fīrā?, lit. Feeler), also known as the arbiters of fate (運命の番人, Unmei no Banin?, lit. keepers of fate), are beings born of the planet said to enforce the course of destiny. They appear in large gatherings whenever events stray too far from fate's intended path.

The Whispers appear whenever events start to diverge from the original plot of Final Fantasy VII. According to Whisper Harbinger's description, they appear "when someone tries to alter destiny's course"; that someone is implied to be Sephiroth. The only person who seems to understand what the beings are is Aerith. Because of the apparent connection between the Whispers and Aerith, she seems to have knowledge of the original Final Fantasy VII timeline; she knew Cloud Strife was a mercenary, but she hid this knowledge by claiming she guessed from his weapon. She knew Cloud was in SOLDIER even though he had not told her yet and knew Marlene's name without Tifa telling her. She knew Barret was Marlene's father when she called out for "daddy", and even warned Cloud from falling in love with her because it would only cause him pain. She knew Red XIII was their ally even if he was acting aggressively, and when she placed her hand on his head, he gained knowledge of the Whispers and was able to relay it to the others.

Cloud and friends follow and end up in a distorted version of a destroyed Midgar, where the Whispers combine into a Weapon-like colossus that spawns three constructs with the ability to merge into a Bahamut-like form. Throughout the battle, they show images of events that will occur: Aerith's death, Meteor hurtling toward Midgar, and an older Red XIII overlooking the ruins of Midgar.

The Whispers' defeat creates deviations to the timeline: Biggs survives the plate collapse, while Zack Fair survives "his last stand" and brings Cloud to Midgar, later visiting the Sector 5 church looking for Aerith. Aerith is unsure what the future will hold, as the sky above them is unknown. Sephiroth is motivated by his will to defy destiny and seems to have goaded Cloud and his friends into fighting the Whispers to open a path to a new future.
So basically Sisters of Fate from GoW2......hmm
 
what are my FF5 revisions to you then, chopped liver 😔
I mean at least chopped liver is good for your blood. My unfunny jest aside I appreciate your work on FF franchise.

I'm just salty that many Ivalice Alliance and FNC profiles are so barebones or simply don't exist since I really like both of those FF mythos.

Also if FFVII magic is treated as 4D would that make Cloud and the others smurfs?
 
Ivalice alliance will be fixed eventually as well. As for FNC, i do not feel like playing through the lightning trilogy at the depth that would actually be required to get all the needed scans, and i say that as someone that unironically loves FF13
 
Ivalice is gonna be it's own can of worns since we'd have to go through 6 games at bare minimum to update that part of FF, and that's not even taking into account the FF1-6 revisions which is already a massive project to tackle.
 
Yeah unlike other fantasy mythos you really need to be in a specific mindset before playing any FNC game (and that's not including Type-0 on top).

As for the future FF revisions, I'll look forward to the classic content (FFIV seems to be the most interesting one imo) as for the Ivalice Alliance if it helps I've got FFXII (both the original and Zodiac age), FFXII revenant wings as well as FFT (both the original and WotL) and I'm very familiar with all those games.

Anyway I hope I'm not derailing Cyber's CRT.
 
I mean at least chopped liver is good for your blood. My unfunny jest aside I appreciate your work on FF franchise.

I'm just salty that many Ivalice Alliance and FNC profiles are so barebones or simply don't exist since I really like both of those FF mythos.

Also if FFVII magic is treated as 4D would that make Cloud and the others smurfs?
not really dnd magic is 4D but we don`t treat every mage having 4D hax, elder scrolls magic is High 1B but we don`t give every mage High 1B hax
 
All spirit energy-based abilities become inherently 4D by nature, scaling both to the potency of their Hax and Resistances. The cast gains Acausality (Type 4) for their usage of spirit energy and inherent connection to the Lifestream. All magic inherently gains: Soul Manipulation, Information Manipulation, Memory Manipulation, and Space-Time Manipulation: Magic is powered by Spirit Energy, which is made up of souls, knowledge, and memories crystallized into materia or condensed into mako energy. Spirit Energy is capable of causing big bangs and creating pocket dimensions in a large enough quantity and can be used to warp space and time.

So for this I should note that the big bang is done via a large amount of spiritual energy, on a universal scale
 
Didn’t the text flat out state a small drop of spirit energy causes a new universe to be made via Big Bang?
 
You do know the next paragraph states it starts off in spiritual energy right? Meaning the dimensions were basically made by spiritual energy, that’s still 4-D
 
I don't think using brute force to destroy a pocket dimension is really spacial manipulation

Or, it could be, but not in the same sense as causing spacial warping to negate someone's durability as is implied here via granting spacial manipulation resistance across the board

It isn't really BFR if you're changing the battlefield as opposed to actually removing an opponent from it.

4D magic, it's doubtless that the lifestream at large and whatnot are at least some degree 4D in mechanism, but as per individual users, it is a little bit iffy

but DMC has way worse reasons so I'm not that strongly inclined to argue against it, I think it's fine enough
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top