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I don't know what to think when I can't tell what is being calculated. Please don't just link to sites with terrible visuals just for a post that could have been copypasted here for better clarity.
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Fate Servant Tiering CRT
- Thread starter DragonEmperor23
- Start date
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- #442
I don't know the original thing, I got it from a thread but for some reason I'm not finding it on the 7-A one.
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exactly what i want to know (read most of it but things got confusing towards the end), kekLephyrTheRevanchist said:
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Okay, so it's been like little bit over a month but we still haven't come to a conclusion. For the argument that we make certain characters (Hercules) baseline 7-A, we still need to come up with tiers for the Servants that aren't 9-B but are massively weaker than Herc and those comparable. It would be silly for the durability section to be something like 7-B (Gets killed in a single hit by Hercules, a 7-A).
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Can we at least make the edits for the 7As and find more for the 7Bs later?
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- #446
Sure, let's clear out who scales to Herc and who doesn't.
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So in conclusion everyone in 7-A will drop to baseline? Alright then. But now this gonna be 50/50 being AP stomp for every servants matches in future from what i see.
Also how about the NP scaling? Change the 6-C to what level?
Also how about the NP scaling? Change the 6-C to what level?
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I always found most Servants scaling to Herc to be somewhat odd. DragonEmperor23, what's your proposal for the scaling?
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There is Playable Caster (Tamamo-no-Mae) and Saber (Gawain) that need to go down to 7A from High 7A
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Making them baseline will cause them down to 7-A because using multiplier they just above basline 7-A? RIP my Lopunny vs Tamamo
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Hmmm... I no expert, but there any calcs that has been accepted at least?
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There are but they're vastly below other baseline feats
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Hmmm I see. Any links for those?
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Links for what feats?
The calcs are really low so they're not really worth it but you can find them on the previous thread
Quotes for 7A are definitely here
The calcs are really low so they're not really worth it but you can find them on the previous thread
Quotes for 7A are definitely here
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.....?
Huh weird the calcs listed there would not accepted or has been agreed upon....
Hmmm interesting
Huh weird the calcs listed there would not accepted or has been agreed upon....
Hmmm interesting
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- #456
@Rin
I figured we could first scale the servants that have fought Herc evenly (Asterios, for example) or have been stated to be comparable. Then we could decide on if using the Fate Parameters for Strength is consistent in verse and then apply scaling to those who have similar stats to Herc. Then we can apply scaling to those who fought people comparable to Herc.
@Everyone
I was looking through the thread again, this calc was accepted, so what do you guys think about scaling it to other NPs or in general? It was discussed for a few comments but then it was dropped, probably distracted since DMUA had finished the recalc around then.
I figured we could first scale the servants that have fought Herc evenly (Asterios, for example) or have been stated to be comparable. Then we could decide on if using the Fate Parameters for Strength is consistent in verse and then apply scaling to those who have similar stats to Herc. Then we can apply scaling to those who fought people comparable to Herc.
@Everyone
I was looking through the thread again, this calc was accepted, so what do you guys think about scaling it to other NPs or in general? It was discussed for a few comments but then it was dropped, probably distracted since DMUA had finished the recalc around then.
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Huh I was on the impression that the calcs are still in the process of being accepted or put on hold though.DragonEmperor23 said:
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@Dragon
Rep disagreed with it
Rep disagreed with it
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The suggestion looks good but I'm not sure about scaling that to other NP's after all the jump from 7-A to High 6-C is pretty massive. Unless there's something that'll support High 6-C if there is it should be fine.
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@garg
Alot of others agreed with scaling it somewhat
@rin
I mean Balmung was able to kill fafnir and Siegfried's anti dragon aspect comes from that so he lacked it before killing the dragon
Vasavi Shakti also shot down fafnir before
Alot of others agreed with scaling it somewhat
@rin
I mean Balmung was able to kill fafnir and Siegfried's anti dragon aspect comes from that so he lacked it before killing the dragon
Vasavi Shakti also shot down fafnir before
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From the comments, it seemed he disagreed with it scaling to people and not the math.Schnee One said:
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The only calc that used to be used for NPs was the outdated Excalibur feat, I think. There's no jump there cause there isn't anything else that it could be. Unless you were talking about Servants physically, but there aren't any Servants that can scale physically to the full force of a Noble Phantasm. (Plus there are ranks for Noble Phantasms and Caladbolg is pretty high up there so if those ranks/parameters are accepted we could use the numbers to downscale).Rin The Dragon Empress said:
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From the comments, it seemed he disagreed with it scaling to people and not the math.
Then it scaling seems out of the question
Then it scaling seems out of the question
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So is there a clear decision on what needs to be done?
Like new ratings, Servants to be applied to and why? Since people keep jumping from topic to topic.
Like new ratings, Servants to be applied to and why? Since people keep jumping from topic to topic.
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Baseline 7A for all of the servants that scale to A rank.
Some people are thinking of finding new feats instead of backscaling but for now we're stuck with this.
In all seriousness very minor edits need to be made, some servants go down from High 7A to 7A like those I mentioned above but aside from that we remove the calc from the justification and the new one will be the various mountain busting statements
Some people are thinking of finding new feats instead of backscaling but for now we're stuck with this.
In all seriousness very minor edits need to be made, some servants go down from High 7A to 7A like those I mentioned above but aside from that we remove the calc from the justification and the new one will be the various mountain busting statements
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I see no reason why the ranks couldn't be used as they are rarely not consistent. Cases like Heracles versus Asterios are more exemptions rather than the rule. Perhaps finding a C rank Noble Phantasm to scale the Servants to? Its old but there was something about a pure damage NP without special effects of C rank being comparable to a Rank A attack.
Also Dragon, where did this Raikou versus Ushi battle you spoke about that seemingly renders the stats nonsense happen? I'd like some context.
Also Dragon, where did this Raikou versus Ushi battle you spoke about that seemingly renders the stats nonsense happen? I'd like some context.
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That's actually a possibility.
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The Raikou battle was during Onigashima iirc
It was Ushi-Gozen using Raikou's body and she took on Ushi, Mash, Fuuma, Benkei and Kintoki.
So it wasn't even actually Raikou that did that and it's kinda an outlier if it was anyway
It was Ushi-Gozen using Raikou's body and she took on Ushi, Mash, Fuuma, Benkei and Kintoki.
So it wasn't even actually Raikou that did that and it's kinda an outlier if it was anyway
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https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Berserker_(Minamoto_no_Yorimitsu)
Mountain level (Has A-rank strength and is thus comparable to Heracles. While acting as Ushi Gozen, she stalemated Kintoki Sakata, Mash, Ushiwakamaru, Fuuma Kotarou, and Benkei simultaneously, only falling after a surprise attack from Shuten-douji)
Mountain level (Has A-rank strength and is thus comparable to Heracles. While acting as Ushi Gozen, she stalemated Kintoki Sakata, Mash, Ushiwakamaru, Fuuma Kotarou, and Benkei simultaneously, only falling after a surprise attack from Shuten-douji)
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But I was using Asterios vs Herc as an example of why they were consistent...LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
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Aoko doesn't have feats on tier 7 though, she is 7-A by scaling to servants in the first place.
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Aguila, I think they're talking about scaling them to the 22 ton calc on her page.
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But why would you want to scale to Arc, who actually varies a lot in power? Let alone Aoko, who hasn't exactly faced Servants?
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Because Arc's feat is casual with what is basically her base power she doesn't really vary that much besides being much weaker in Tsukihime since Shiki killed her
Didn't Aoko fight servants in Extra, I don't remember
Didn't Aoko fight servants in Extra, I don't remember
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That is not an answer. You just dodged the question.Paul Frank said:
That's not a good answer when she's barely connected to any Servant, has no backing for the only connection and is ultimately separate from them.
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"But why would you want to to scale to Arc, who actually varies a lot in power?"
Because that feat was casual, she doesn't vary in power that much besides when she is Archetype Earth or during Tsukihime. She has also fought servants before in addition to scaling to people who scale to servants.
How is that not a good answer? If Aoko fought servants she fought servants and scales to them
Because that feat was casual, she doesn't vary in power that much besides when she is Archetype Earth or during Tsukihime. She has also fought servants before in addition to scaling to people who scale to servants.
How is that not a good answer? If Aoko fought servants she fought servants and scales to them
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This is hardly more than speculation. I don't know why we should accept this at face value when Arc not only has several keys, but is also said to equal 4 Servants which is extremely vague in description. Not to mention you still haven't shown anything beyond pointing out her feat, when we're discussing why Servants should scale to her.Paul Frank said:
Yes, but you haven't shown anything beyond repeating unsupported stuff from her page. Not exactly showing why anyone should scale to her, let alone 7-A people.
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I don't know what more you want
Arc has literally fought servants before thats why they should scale. Roa scales to her. Roa has canonically fought Dantes and harmed him.
Arc is weaker during Tsukihime for various reasons, this has no bearing on scaling or the feat. Arc is stronger as Archetype Earth, again no bearing on the scaling or the feat.
The equal to 4 servants was actually referring to the limits of her backup during Tsukihime. During Tsukihime Arc was weakened and the backup from the World would bring her roughly to the strength of 4 servants at the most which is what the statement was talking about.
Again if Aoko has fought servants why would they not scale to her.
Arc has literally fought servants before thats why they should scale. Roa scales to her. Roa has canonically fought Dantes and harmed him.
Arc is weaker during Tsukihime for various reasons, this has no bearing on scaling or the feat. Arc is stronger as Archetype Earth, again no bearing on the scaling or the feat.
The equal to 4 servants was actually referring to the limits of her backup during Tsukihime. During Tsukihime Arc was weakened and the backup from the World would bring her roughly to the strength of 4 servants at the most which is what the statement was talking about.
Again if Aoko has fought servants why would they not scale to her.
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