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Fate Revision Thread

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Well the country level rating came from it being anti-country which is primarily a classification for range and aoe. So Brahmastra shouldn't be country level from its classification. The 6-C rating is more consistent with Arjuna's 6-C feat, being implied to be able to one shot Jeanne even if she used her NP and the fact that Balmung spam could cancel it. So I think it should be At least 6-C, likely higher because it doesn't have any country level feats.
 
That reminds me, should top-tier Noble Phantasms like Balmung and Excalibur get an upgrade from this? Balmung was able to disperse Brahmastra Kundala, with Gram acting as Balmung's prototype. Gram in turn is comparable to Excalibur.
 
did somebody say Gilgamesh upgrade? Hehehehe.

All seriousness though @Ram how do you think we can go by the "how many blasts did he use?" Problem
 
Promestein said:
Oh, here's another thing.

Arjuna is Mountain level only at 10% of his power with Gandiva. Large Mountain level is only 10x higher than Mountain level.
Click to expand...
Was anything done about this? Just curious.
 
@Gar

I don't think it was. I don't think it would be a ludicrous change, but this would also have to scale to a bunch of people.
 
I can see that being an absolute pain to scale to everyone, and it can also lead to inflated results.

How many people would it scale to aside from those already mentioned?
 
@Gar

As far as I can remember, the only ones who should scale are Scathach, Karna, Rama, and Cu Alter.

Of course, that would also make them ludicrously stronger than Heracles, who is renowned as being one of the physically strongest Servants.
 
Gáe Bolg Alternative is not the same as using both of Cu's NPs. It just combines the two functions(Stab for effect and throw with magical energy). If it was heartstab they wouldn't have to explain that the spear throw is a guarantee kill due to its power.
 
@Ram

There's no reason why Scathach wouldn't be able to use Cu's versions of Gae Bolg since she literally taught him everything she knows.

There's a reason why Cu Alter had to use Curruid Coinchenn to take her by surprise. That's something she's never taught him.
 
Yes there is. She didn't teach him Heartstab. Even extra mats goes "it's a power one step away from being an authority which is usurprising given that he is a demigod" which implies only he can do it because he is a demigod.
 
Reppuzan said:
@Gar

As far as I can remember, the only ones who should scale are Scathach, Karna, Rama, and Cu Alter.

Of course, that would also make them ludicrously stronger than Heracles, who is renowned as being one of the physically strongest Servants.
Click to expand...
Nitpick, but if you're still in the top 5 for being one of the strongest servants, then you are one of the physically strongest servants.

That said, even in the original FSN, Saber Alter was stronger physically IIRC
 
@Ram,

The idea that only Cu can do it because he's a demigod is an even weaker argument because Scathach is half Divine Spirit at this point.

There would be no reason why the descriptions would say that it "combines the functions of the Barbed Spear that Pierces with Death and the Soaring Spear that Strikes with Death" if she didn't have access to both of them.
 
Even if she is it doesn't matter because Cu made the technique it's his own almost authority.

Yes there would be. You are reading it to literally. It combines the two functions (Stab for effect and magic nuke). Not the two Noble Phantasms.
 
@Ram

But both Noble Phantasm are mentioned by name.

Cu even complains about why he's even at Chaldea if Scathach can do everything he does but better.
 
Yes but they specifically say that it's the functions of them combined. Which would be stab for effect(In this case it's not stab heart but sew space) and then throw magic nuke. Which they describe right after in Mats.

He doesn't he mostly complained about her having gotten stronger, and her dual wielding Gáe Bolg.
 
@Ram

I don't understand why we're making a distinction between the functio of a Noble Phantasm (it's intended effect upon activation) to a Noble Phantasm's use and activation.
 
Because they describe Gáe Bolg Alternative's effects as different from Cu's Gáe Bolg.

Also they bothered to use function which means that there is a distinction. They could have just written "It's the combination of Cu Chulainn's Noble Phantasms" instead they wrote "It's Cu Chulainn's Noble Phantasm functions combined. The first spear sews space, the second spear is thrown, of course anything caught in the path of the spear dies"
 
@Ram

I want Kami's opinion on this.

I'm pretty sure that Promestein's on vacation, but if either of them agree with you I'll concede.
 
@Kami

Does Scathach have Cu's Causality Reversing ability as part of her Gae Bolg Alternative?

Or is it a Cu Exclusive?

I'm leaning towards the former since the materials explicitly states that it combines the functions of both the Barbed Spear that Pierces with Death and the Soaring Spear that Strikes with Death, but Ram is leaning towards the latter.
 
I'm leaning to no because.

When they describe the effects after saying it's the combination of their functions, they say sews space so she can hit the thrown spear. They also say that anything caught in the line dies because she throws it so hard. This would contradict it doing the heartstab that is always lethal.

They also make the distinction that it's the function of them combined, which would be effect from stab(sew space instead of reverse causality) and magic nuke.
 
That's only with Vasavi Shakti and we have nothing that supports Arjuna scaling to that even with Pashupata.

On another note, can someone adjust Shiki Ryougi's speed to Massively Hypersonic reaction and combat speed through scaling to Araya who should be comparable to Touko who is comparable to Aoko Aozaki.
 
This might have already been mentioned in this Thread but...

Why exactly do Servants not have Concept Manip or Conceptual Attack? That is, after all, what a Noble Phantasm is. A Concept or Idea, just like some Servants themselves. I mean, that is pretty much the First Thing pointed out about NP and also the First Thing written out on the TypeM-Wikia page for NP.
 
@Heilergott They are just conceptual in nature, as Noble Phantasms are the ultimate mysteries of a hero and the crystalization of their legend with humanity's fantasies as cores. A lot of them don't go beyond physical interference so I don't think we should give them conceptual manipulation or attack.

Having a explanation blog for the nature of Noble Phantasms should be enough.

Also Servants are not concepts or ideas, they are just Heroic Spirits or Heroes elevated to a higher existence by their feats and people's ideals.

@Reppu I think making a separate profile would be better.
 
I upgraded Numeral Gawain to at least mountain level+ because he should be around 300-350 megaton range in base as he is on par with Artoria who is somewhat comparable to Heracles who deflected a weakened Excalibur.
 
Shouldn't all Servants be at least 7-B+ if not 7-A? Because they can defensively fight A-rank Servants even if they will likely die. A-rank Servants are somewhat comparable to Heracles who deflected a weakened Excalibur which should be around 385+ megatons.

Most of the average Servants shouldn't be over 7 times weaker. They are maybe 4 times weaker considering they can get one shot but they can also barely deflect their attacks and fight them.
 
I know, 7-A comes from Herc being able to bust a mountain and deflecting a weakened Excalibur which should at least be as strong as the cloud splitting Excalibur that was also super weakened.

But a lot of Servants are rated as At least 7-B, most of them should be 7-A with the weaker ones being at least 7-B+. Because there is no way that Cu is somehow 6 times weaker than Diarmuid.
 
The strength gap between Cu and Diarmund is also really weird, given that Cu is generally the more famous and powerful of the Irish Lancers.

I wouldn't mind this if Prom and KamiYasha agree.
 
You mentioned going through and making a bunch of profiles for Grand Order, I can help with that. I am already planning on making profiles for Benkei, EMIYA Alter, and Geronemo, along with a few others. Once I rap up the JJBA revisions and lacking profiles, Ill get on that.

One thing that I was gonna make a post on, but this seems like a good place to bring it up, was adding Power of Begginnings to the servants who obtained the power in Fate/Extra CCC. I could handle adding this if yall agree with the addition
 
I'm not really sure, power-scaling everyone is rather odd in my opinion.

Everyone or nigh everyone jumping to 7-A just because they can fight "defensively" fight Heracles., i don't think that's a good idea.

That'd like saying that Medea/Hans can fight Heracles or almost every assassin/caster.
 
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