Fate/Extra CCC massive revision

[DragonBallSuperIsTerrible]

They are stored, so they are physical outcomes (which is similiar to timelines). You can't simulate and store one at a time if there are an infinite amount, as you'd never reach infinite.Your gun and animal example is terrible. Also storing possibilities of the Earth counts as ENTIRE timelines, as any change to Earth alone would make another timeline. I don't think you understand how timelines work or what they are. Hakuno can also see all futures/possibilities when fusing with the core I can do whatever he/she wants, so no, not one at a time.

Her being omnipresent and being placed in unlimited time, along with existing in 5D space requires the 4 Servants to be beyond MFTL.

I never said Fate/GO isn't canon, I said that you can't use it to scale CCC characters since everything works different and is a different timeline.

You used Extella feats even though it isn't related to Extra or CCC and has many contradicting feats. Gilgamesh is even effected by the Far Side in Extella, by that logic he'd be DEAD in CCC. Stop using Extella logic for the original games when the lore and feats are different and can't co-exist.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Dragon

They're not "stored", they're simulated in the same way that Suzuka Gozen simulates infinite worlds with her Sanzendaisensekai Noble Phantasm.

It can calculate and perceive infinite possibilities but it doesn't simultaneously realize all of them at once.

The Moon Cell has never shown the ability to affect things outside of Earth. You can't qualify for Low 2-C unless you can affect an entire universe's timeline simultaneously.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Extella is canon to CCC... Nero, Fox girl whose name i can't spell, and Nameless remember those events, and so does gilgamesh.... They even remember those events in Grand order....

... i am just going to drop this here...

 

[DragonBallSuperIsTerrible]

Rani states the Moon Cell simulates and STORES them, Hakuno can also see all of them and can pick or do whatever he/she wants after fusing with the core. The Moon Cell also has an infinte space (which I believe is in the 4D Far Side). BB existed in 5D space after using CCC in 4D. All of these are 2-A feats. Effecting the Earth would change the timeline itself, as an event(s) has changed.

Extella's FEATS and LORE contradict Extra and CCC, infact the endings of Extra and CCC make Extella existing impossible, thus they cannot co-exist. That one guy also sent that Extella Zero thing.

Gilgamesh in Extella is effected by the Far Side, using that logic he'd be DEAD in CCC He also left the Moon Cell with Hakuno entirely in his route (aka Extella can't happen). The Moon Cell's goals are also completely different in Extra compared to Extella

 

[John985]

How many times do I have to say this? Extella isn't connected to ccc. There's a story called extella zero when extella was first realese in japan.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

The official website says differently...

 

[DragonBallSuperIsTerrible]

The lore/story, the endings, and the feats all change and cannot co-exist. There is no room for debate on that.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Dragon

The Moon Cell still doesn't realize any of its predictions until the end of the Holy Grail War, upon which it only realizes one.

Your logic is the same as giving Gilgamesh a 2-A rating for being able to see all possible outcomes.

The Moon Cell still hasn't interacted with reality in a space larger than Earth, so still, no.

The higher-dimensional statements are still extremely outlierish in the context of Nasuverse scaling rules and BB's overall power level.

Arcueid possesses more Authority than the Moon Cell and is canonically superior to Kiara as the only character to appear in Fate/Extra that can bring down a fully-powered Amaterasu.

 

[John985]

@TheUpgrade


Yeah just like Dragon said, it contradicts everyting about the Lore if both are connected, but I'd rather trust what Nasu said rather than the company who made the translation.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

They are stored.

" 'Universe' refers to a domain that encompasses space and time.

'Universe of Record' refers to a domain of reality wherein the Concept of Time is expressed as 'Time Submitted to Record', such that the Past, Present and Future can be distinguished as categorically discrete entities per a chronological record of proceedings. The timelines represented within the Adjacent World Simulator of the Moon Cell Automaton may be collectively considered a 'Universe of Record'. "

On the topic of Extella, if you accept Extella as continuation of CCC, and everything in Extella canon, then Gilgamesh should have died before the events of CCC, according to their nonsensical logic.

 

[DragonBallSuperIsTerrible]

Rani states it simulates and stores them.

You ignore infinite space between the 7th layer and the core.

You ignore Mystic Code Servants needing beyond MFTL speed to match omnipresent and not bound by time BB.

You have no reason to call it an outlier. Extra and CCC have never shown to have the normal Nasuverse scaling. Detailed explanations of lower dimensional beings not being able to exist in higher, and CCC stated to be able to erase dimensions are not outliers. You are heavily mis-using the word.

Authority doesn't mean power, and that statement was only from Hakuno. Also you ignore Arcueid has an ability to make her stronger than anyone else. Nasu stated it isn't Tsukihime Arcueid, so her power is unknown.

Feats contradict a vague statement on Amaterasu. Gilgamesh blinks her until further notice due to being above the Moon Cell. Once again though, we have no idea how strong divine spirits are in the original Extraverse (Extra and CCC). Assuming they are the same level as other timelines is speculation. Also wasn't that statement made before CCC (aka before BB and the Mystic Code Servants)?

 

[Chu_Minh_Duy]

exist in Higher Dimensional space doesn't make you anywhere near the level of higher dimensional being

 

[John985]

The only Divine spirits that has feats are Lucoa(Quetzal), Ishtar(Rin) and Tiamat. But that's FGO.

 

[Chu_Minh_Duy]

They are stored, so they are physical outcomes (which is similiar to timelines). You can't simulate and store one at a time if there are an infinite amount, as you'd never reach infinite.Your gun and animal example is terrible. Also storing possibilities of the Earth counts as ENTIRE timelines, as any change to Earth alone would make another timeline. I don't think you understand how timelines work or what they are. Hakuno can also see all futures/possibilities when fusing with the core I can do whatever he/she wants, so no, not one at a time.
Her being omnipresent and being placed in unlimited time, along with existing in 5D space requires the 4 Servants to be beyond MFTL.

I never said Fate/GO isn't canon, I said that you can't use it to scale CCC characters since everything works different and is a different timeline.

You used Extella feats even though it isn't related to Extra or CCC and has many contradicting feats. Gilgamesh is even effected by the Far Side in Extella, by that logic he'd be DEAD in CCC. Stop using Extella logic for the original games when the lore and feats are different and can't co-exist.

see Infinity possibilities=/=Multiversal, and also storing and simulating is different from creating , destroying, and also , those possibilities are probably not existing in Earth (even they're stored by the Moon Cell) or affect to entire timeline , mostly they're being calculated by the events in past , so yeah, im not sure , but even that was real , BB still can't affect real timeline or any timeline outside Extraverse even fuse with Moon Cell , the only thing she can do is creating CCC , and CCC are state to be consume reality (which i still not see it can capable to do that or not) , and probably the concept of Time in Far Side was broken and BB use her power from Earth Mother Goddesses so that why she can state herself in unlimited time,

 

[DragonBallSuperIsTerrible]

BB existed and effected higher dimensions. You're also ignoring the rest of my post.

Exactly, Fate/GO, not Extra/CCC timeline divine spirits.

 

[DragonBallSuperIsTerrible]

Storing them makes them physical. Simulating and storing would be harder than destroying. Effecting the Earth is altering an event in a timeline, making it an entirely different one. Hakuno could alter real reality after fusing with the core. BB's CCC is stated to dimension bust and nothing contradicts it. BB used CCC in 4D space, BB also existed in and manipulates 4D Far Side. So BB can exist in, manipulate, and destroy 4D space. That's tier 2 alone, then the fact there is the space between the seventh layer and the core. Also nothing states or implies BB can't effect other timelines.

It doesn't matter how BB is put in unlimited time or how she is omnipresent, the Servants would need to be far beyond MFTL to avoid getting blitzed.

 

[NNin]

I think Nasu never stated outright that TYPEs are strongest beings in Nasuverse. He just said TYPEs are very powerful lifeforms. And ORT is like "a broken hidden boss that doesn't care about game balance." That also implied ORT is beyond other TYPEs. It might has something very broken in sleeve.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

I asked this question a long time ago, and will ask it again: when did he make that statement? Because if it's something that's 8-10 years old, and wasn't confirmed again by him, it's outdated.

 

[Chu_Minh_Duy]

so who agree that CCC servants and BB will have their upgrade ?

 

[DragonBallSuperIsTerrible]

Me (obviously). I have heard "wank" and "outliers" based on nothing. I doubt they'll upgrade anything, no matter how many people agree. A speed upgrade beyond MFTL is not even remotely debatable either, as BB would've blitzed them via omnipresence and not being bound by time if they were simply MFTL.

 

[Chu_Minh_Duy]

sight, oh well , who give a shit, btw do you like Godzilla?

 

[DragonBallSuperIsTerrible]

No? lol *Incoming derail*

 

[Chu_Minh_Duy]

but don't use the unlimited time , it's more like Time Manipulation or resistance to Time Manipulation

 

[Chu_Minh_Duy]

Me (obviously). I have heard "wank" and "outliers" based on nothing. I doubt they'll upgrade anything, no matter how many people agree. A speed upgrade beyond MFTL is not even remotely debatable either, as BB would've blitzed them via omnipresence and not being bound by time if they were simply MFTL.

even thought you give any of your's evidence to proves and try to upgrade Gil ,BB, UMU, Mumei and Tamamo , they still find a mistake in your's proofs and eveidences , nothing personal ,but they will

 

[Reppuzan]

@NNin

The Aristoteles are the most powerful beings native to each planet in the Solar System to the point of representing the planet itself.

Arcueid is both Archetype Earth and Type-Moon for being the Ultimate One of the Earth and Moon.

Kiara cannot be stronger than her and neither can the Moon Cell, who can't even touch a weakened Arcueid.

 

[Chu_Minh_Duy]

Storing them makes them physical. Simulating and storing would be harder than destroying. Effecting the Earth is altering an event in a timeline, making it an entirely different one. Hakuno could alter real reality after fusing with the core. BB's CCC is stated to dimension bust and nothing contradicts it. BB used CCC in 4D space, BB also existed in and manipulates 4D Far Side. So BB can exist in, manipulate, and destroy 4D space. That's tier 2 alone, then the fact there is the space between the seventh layer and the core. Also nothing states or implies BB can't effect other timelines.
It doesn't matter how BB is put in unlimited time or how she is omnipresent, the Servants would need to be far beyond MFTL to avoid getting blitzed.

show me the evidences and proofs that BB can effect other timelines

 

[DragonBallSuperIsTerrible]

I've been destroying their same same recycled arguments.

Unlimited time works on BB herself, not others. You can't resist something not aimed towards you. BB is also omnipresent.

Divine spirits, Types, ect have no feats in the Extra timeline, you ignore this and repeat the same thing, seriously... find something new to say please.

If the Moon Cell can store and effect timelines, BB can too.

Once again, Extraverse Arcueid's power is unknown, and she has an ability to become stronger than ANYONE she is facing.

You didn't even touch on the MFTL speed problem.

This has become childish. I'm done here, as you repeat the same debunked arguments and ignore what I am saying and repeat what I debunked. You are certainly no Nasuverse expert. That one dude also asked for Types being the strongest non outdated statement and you ignore him. You are clearly bias and cannot debate correctly.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Dragon

"Divine Spirits have no feats in the Extra timeline"

Amaterasu is the embodiment of the sun and exists outside of the flow of time. Buddhas and Bodhisattvas are stated to govern and control entire solar systems.

Um... what?

Arcueid already has the feat of the Moon Cell doing jack shit to affect her, which is an aspect of her Authority which includes her Ultimate One skills (which is actually on her profile).

You haven't destroyed a single argument and are just saying no to everything that contradicts your points.

The fact that the Ultimate Ones exist at all and that the Moon Cell that was threatened by something comparable to Amaterasu deconstructs your arguments further.

And no, we're not inept, we're just doing our best to avoid wank by taking the entire Nasuverse into account rather than a few choice statements.

Being disrespectful only serves to discredit you more.

Also, don't remove threads just because you're throwing a temper tantrum since your revisions aren't getting accepted. That's childish.

Anyway, we're done here.