- 39,420
- 15,282
Mashu,just close this wank already. ovo
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Fate/Extra CCC massive revision
- Thread starter DragonBallSuperIsTerrible
- Start date
- Status
- Thread starter
- #43
He never uses counter arguments to my knowledge. I assume if he ever does, it'll be something debunkable, but he will lock it before you can give a retort.John985 said:
- Thread starter
- #44
Also I never said any defeat of hers is PIS, I said the Servants are simply at her level. Nice twist of words. Also I've been trying to be nice, yet I get rude people to deal with, known as "Nasuverse experts." lol... Sure you guys are... Your previous debunks were all debunked in my first post. Also everyone ignores the fact your description of C.C.C is incorrect on her page. Notice it mentions dimensions in the Typemoon wiki. Still laughing over statements>feats.
- 11,444
- 1,997
Ram summed up most my views on the subject pretty neatly.
Kiara spent too much time playing around with the F/GO protagonists, allowing BB to construct Anti-Kiara armaments that brought her down to a level where she could be defeated. In the previous timeline, she wiped out Chaldea before Meltlilith went back in time to stop her.
None of the Beasts were defeated with brute force and are canonically massively above the Chaldea servants.
Tiamat was only defeated after being dropped into the Underworld and having the concept of death imposed on her to drastically weaken her before being obliterated by Ea.
Goetia was only beaten after being weakened to near-death by Ars Nova to the point that Ritsuka could actually hurt him by punching him in the face.
Your whole PIS argument when there's actually in-story explanations for the events is just absurd.
Kiara spent too much time playing around with the F/GO protagonists, allowing BB to construct Anti-Kiara armaments that brought her down to a level where she could be defeated. In the previous timeline, she wiped out Chaldea before Meltlilith went back in time to stop her.
None of the Beasts were defeated with brute force and are canonically massively above the Chaldea servants.
Tiamat was only defeated after being dropped into the Underworld and having the concept of death imposed on her to drastically weaken her before being obliterated by Ea.
Goetia was only beaten after being weakened to near-death by Ars Nova to the point that Ritsuka could actually hurt him by punching him in the face.
Your whole PIS argument when there's actually in-story explanations for the events is just absurd.
- Thread starter
- #46
If she was beat via things specifically to counter her and she was toying around, then using Kiara as a debunk is especially pointless.
The rest of your post has nothing to do with anything in CCC.
Also I never mentioned PIS. Learn to read please. No offense... I said Servants beating BB isn't PIS, they are simply boosted to her level. No Fate/GO character has feats remotely close to CCC god tiers.
The rest of your post has nothing to do with anything in CCC.
Also I never mentioned PIS. Learn to read please. No offense... I said Servants beating BB isn't PIS, they are simply boosted to her level. No Fate/GO character has feats remotely close to CCC god tiers.
- 6,300
- 1,599
To be fair, it can be argued that BB being defeated was complete PIS.... there is evidence supporting that.. BB was was trying her best to keep the mooncell from going "beserk" while fighting off the main character.. she was also holding back because she didn't actually want to hurt Hakunon... that was revealed after BB was defeated... Kiara absorbed passionlip and meltlilth so that wasn't her base power.. Those 2 were fighting back, but BB did die from being absorbed albeit because she was already weakened to begin with... but Passionlip, and Meltlilth did manage to break free..
There is also evidence suggesting that the "Ten crowns" ability which the "Formal mystic code" that its commonly called isn't as strong as BB...
Fate/extra CCC PSP game =/= Fate/Extra CCC: Fox Tail manga
Fate/Extra CCC: Fox Tail is the one that the F/GO crossover event used...
There is also evidence suggesting that the "Ten crowns" ability which the "Formal mystic code" that its commonly called isn't as strong as BB...
Fate/extra CCC PSP game =/= Fate/Extra CCC: Fox Tail manga
Fate/Extra CCC: Fox Tail is the one that the F/GO crossover event used...
- Thread starter
- #48
And the fact Gilgamesh busted the Moon Cell reality marble, which has infinite spaces, possibilities that are simulated and stored, timelines, ect. Even if the other Servants are weaker than full power BB, Gilgamesh is above the Moon Cell entirely. He is easily 2-A to high 2-A in CCC ONLY.
- 1,143
- 132
2-A fate vs YHVH when?
- 6,300
- 1,599
I don't remember an instance of Gil busting the moon cell...DragonBallSuperIsTerrible said:
Also the cosmology of the mooncell isn't that simple..
The Holy Grail at the center of the mooncell is what processes infinite parrellel worlds.. this was stated in both CCC, and Extella... The Mooncell itself only processes the effects of parrellel worlds on its own "inner universe" as i will call it...
Gil didn't have access to the mooncells core unlike BB...
- Thread starter
- #51
Gilgamesh busted it via Ea (gif above) before the Moon Cell restores it. Gilgamesh canonically uses Ea, and it is a cinematic attack, so it can't be argued as gameplay mechanics. Gilgamesh beat BB who fused with the core. The Moon Cell also has no power over him and he literally broke free of it in the end, for 90% of his treasuary ofc. The Moon Cell could never contain him, BB couldn't defeat him either, despite their multiversal feats.TheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:
I don't remember it ever stating the core is what stores them, only that you can access them via the core. The Moon Cell also has 1 infinite space in the Far Side I believe, which is 4D. Gilgamesh (CCC only) is 2-A to high 2-A regardless for being above BB and the Moon Cell itself.
- 6,300
- 1,599
I can give you a link to read the CCC psp game... there is no instance of the mooncell getting busted..DragonBallSuperIsTerrible said:
BB was not at full power though...
The mooncell has consistently shown to have power over Gilgamesh on several occasions..
The mooncell is stated to be "Finite" and not "infinite" as well...
The "Ten Crowns" ability was stated to be equal to half of the mooncell....
BB (eog) had an upgrade version of "The Ten Crowns"....
- 6,300
- 1,599
I am sorry about that... please forgive me..John985 said:
- Thread starter
- #55
I have played CCC.
? He bust it and they are in space.
Nothing implies BB is below multiversal being due to being under strain from the Moon Cell. Gilgamesh and the Servants were ready to face her before even knowing she was weakened. Half of an infinite multiverse is still infinite.
Infinite futures/possibilities is confirmed by Twice. The Moon Cell has finite and infinite realms. Gilgamesh existed in 4D space when no one else could, and BB existed in 5D after the use of CCC since it wipes out dimensions, and she used it in 4D space.
The Moon Cell failed to contain Mystic Code Gilgamesh, and he proceeds to leave the Moon Cell entirely and break it's rule. Only in Extella has Gilgamesh been effected by it, which isn't canon to CCC.
Nothing implies BB is below multiversal being due to being under strain from the Moon Cell. Gilgamesh and the Servants were ready to face her before even knowing she was weakened. Half of an infinite multiverse is still infinite.
Infinite futures/possibilities is confirmed by Twice. The Moon Cell has finite and infinite realms. Gilgamesh existed in 4D space when no one else could, and BB existed in 5D after the use of CCC since it wipes out dimensions, and she used it in 4D space.
The Moon Cell failed to contain Mystic Code Gilgamesh, and he proceeds to leave the Moon Cell entirely and break it's rule. Only in Extella has Gilgamesh been effected by it, which isn't canon to CCC.
- Thread starter
- #57
The story of Extella is implied to be from Last Encore. Extella mentions Nero and Tamamo in the grail war at the same time, the Moon Cell has enirely different motives, ect. Extella can't be canon to Extra, as Extra and CCC ended entirely different. If we use Extra, then virtual Hakuno is erased, CCC endings Hakuno is saved, (no regalia mentioned, and the Moon Cell still was deleting him/her). Gilgamesh LEAVES the Moon Cell with Hakuno in his ending. Extella does not fit with Extra or CCC.
John985
He/Him- 3,480
- 543
W8, you haven't read extella zero? It was on a blog of Nasu when Extella was release in JP.
Just read the summary here: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/188034-fate-extella-the-umbral-star/74558479
Just read the summary here: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/188034-fate-extella-the-umbral-star/74558479
- 6,300
- 1,599
I am collecting scans to show you, but in the meantime.. Its actually directly stated on the Extella official website that its a continuation of of Extra, and CCC together...DragonBallSuperIsTerrible said:
- Thread starter
- #61
To John: Oh, I thought Extella Zero was some sarcastic remark/joke. I'll read soon.
To TheUpgrade: Extella literally does NOT fit Extra or CCC and completely contradicts feats and the Moon Cell's motives. Gilgamesh is effected by the Far Side in Extella, in CCC he is not. The Moon Cell was going to erase Hakuno in Extra, not bestow a regalia to defend against Sefar.
There are no scans of Mystic Code Gilgamesh being effected by the Moon Cell.
To TheUpgrade: Extella literally does NOT fit Extra or CCC and completely contradicts feats and the Moon Cell's motives. Gilgamesh is effected by the Far Side in Extella, in CCC he is not. The Moon Cell was going to erase Hakuno in Extra, not bestow a regalia to defend against Sefar.
There are no scans of Mystic Code Gilgamesh being effected by the Moon Cell.
- 6,300
- 1,599
I only disagree with "Ten Crown users" kiara, and a few other scaling to BB.. I do think BB needs upgrade but i won't debate it.. but i will show scans to help provide why upgrade the others to be on par with BB is a bad idea...
In summary, "The Ten Royal Crowns" is only equal to half of the mooncell BEFORE bb reached the core...
The last 2 scans happened after she did reach the Core.. aka the holy grail..
In summary, "The Ten Royal Crowns" is only equal to half of the mooncell BEFORE bb reached the core...
The last 2 scans happened after she did reach the Core.. aka the holy grail..
- 6,300
- 1,599
Redoing my summary of my scans here for easier readability... "The Ten Royal Crowns" is only equal to half of the mooncell WITHOUT THE CORE... BB got a massive amp/boost after she did reach it.. i believe my scans are out of order too unfortunately... so "Ten Royal Crown" users are only equal to pre-Mooncell Core/holy grail BB...
- 11,444
- 1,997
It should be noted that the Moon Cell sustains dozens of Reality Marbles of indeterminate size at one time. You can't just generalize things and say that "Gilgamesh blew up a Reality Marble and is therefore capable of destroying infinite Reality Marbles" when he blew up ''one'' Reality Marble.
- Thread starter
- #65
You can say the Servants not being on the level of a full power BB is fine, but Gilgamesh with his Mystic Code has shown to be above the Moon Cell. The Gilgamesh that stated he had no chance was the one that was weakened due to sleeping for eternity and having a Servant contract with Hakuno. That Gilgamesh was on the level of normal Servants (well a bit above). Mystic Code Gilgamesh has demonstrated he is above the Moon Cell and is not afraid of BB at all.
Gilgamesh and BB are definitely 2-A to high 2-A. The Moon Cell has infinite spaces outside of the core, such as the layer between the 7th floor and the core, which is a 2-A feat, so other Servants should be 2-A, as half of infinite is infinite still. 2-A to high 2-A Gilgamesh and BB really isn't debateable I'd say, unlike the rest of the Servants. .
Gilgamesh and BB are definitely 2-A to high 2-A. The Moon Cell has infinite spaces outside of the core, such as the layer between the 7th floor and the core, which is a 2-A feat, so other Servants should be 2-A, as half of infinite is infinite still. 2-A to high 2-A Gilgamesh and BB really isn't debateable I'd say, unlike the rest of the Servants. .
- 32,327
- 20,219
They really aren't. At best BB has Space-time manipulation and broken Precog. She has no feats of destroying or creating multiverses.
The Higher-dimensional stuff is all outliers.
The Higher-dimensional stuff is all outliers.
- 11,444
- 1,997
I still don't get where the "half of Moon Cell" thing is coming from.
Also, drawing power from the Moon Cell =/= having Moon Cell's full reality warping abilities.
Your analogy is the same as saying that every house that draws power from a nuclear reactor channels all of the power produced by the reactor.
In addition, the Moon Cell doesn't even create infinite worlds at once. Otherwise we'd have 2-A Suzuka Gozen.
Also, drawing power from the Moon Cell =/= having Moon Cell's full reality warping abilities.
Your analogy is the same as saying that every house that draws power from a nuclear reactor channels all of the power produced by the reactor.
In addition, the Moon Cell doesn't even create infinite worlds at once. Otherwise we'd have 2-A Suzuka Gozen.
- 32,327
- 20,219
His analysis is more like drawing power from the sun with a solar panel = Creating infinite suns.
- Thread starter
- #69
The Moon Cell simulates and stores infinite futures/possibilities. Storing them makes them physical to an extent, like timelines. Simulating and storing infinite possibilities ALONE is storing infinite different outcomes, which is what timelines are, infinite different outcomes; not only that, but simulating and storing something that is infinite is infinite, period. Creation=Destruction. The fact they are stored makes these possibilities/futures physically exist. Typemoon wiki states CCC can erase dimensions, and BB used CCC in 4D space and existed after the destruction of it, I even posted that in my first comment. The CCC description on her Vs page is mistranslated. You say outliers without any proof. Mentioning higher dimensions and stating lower beings can't exist in them until BB hax are not outliers. You are mis-using the word. Gilgamesh busting the entire reality marble would make sense since he has shown without that to be above BB and the Moon Cell in his Mystic Code. He also uses Ea in 4D Far Side and bust it. Scaling makes Mystic Code Gilgamesh 2-A to high 2-A. Also how is he only MFTL when he beat an omnipresent being not properly bound by time? She can place herself in unlimited time even.
- 6,300
- 1,599
"Half of the Mooncell" comes from early on when we are told briefly about the Ten Crowns. It is when BB makes one of her first appearences.. would it be better i provided page and chapter links....?Reppuzan said:
- 6,300
- 1,599
I am very sorry!! i forgot to include this scan too!..
- 1,277
- 95
i know , right, also Infinite possibilities calculation from the past=infinite Timeline,Store and Simulate=creates and destroy and some kind of reverse Kaldor Draigo featsMatthew Schroeder said:
like someone store a gun= someone firing a gun
or a smartphone simulate some kind of animal=a real Animal
- 1,277
- 95
that because the concept of time in Far Side was broken or she can use power from Earth Mother Goddesses to states her into unlimited timeDragonBallSuperIsTerrible said:
- 6,300
- 1,599
Actually she was drawining power from the core of the mooncell... which is stated.. she is drawining power from the holy grail itself....
- 1,277
- 95
probably
- 6,300
- 1,599
Which fate/Grand order has a statement on the holy grail having some form of intelligence where it chooses how much mana to give the user..
- 1,277
- 95
yeah , but that guy won't use Grand Order because he believe that's non-canonTheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:
- 6,300
- 1,599
iirc grand order is the new canon....
- 1,277
- 95
yeah , but that guy won't use it'sTheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:
- 11,444
- 1,997
@Chu
Yes, the Moon Cell is able to simulate an infinite number of possibilities, but it only realizes one of them at a time. In addition, the only history it cares about is the history of Earth and only records possibilities for Earth and things related to it, meaning that it's still limited to Tier 5.
It's been nearly destroyed on multiple occasions by the Velber, whose greatest weapon was destroyed by Excalibur.
Yes, the Moon Cell is able to simulate an infinite number of possibilities, but it only realizes one of them at a time. In addition, the only history it cares about is the history of Earth and only records possibilities for Earth and things related to it, meaning that it's still limited to Tier 5.
It's been nearly destroyed on multiple occasions by the Velber, whose greatest weapon was destroyed by Excalibur.
- Status
Similar threads
