Fairy Tail Dragon Force and FDKM Multiplier Revision

[Davidsteel1]

That said, the speed inconsistencies are a genuine argument. If these multipliers amp the speed of the cast to unreasonable levels then they pose an issue to scaling and hence should be set aside. Ffg this logic I’d say the earlier “At least” by Wrath would be a far better alternative

 

[LordGinSama]

I mean when you say **** this series, call it a wanked shitty mess, say you're done with it, and then also shit on us for having fun discussing and wanting potential Tier 5 and Tier 2 in the future, you kinda lose all your credibility as a reasonable debater, especially since this is not the first time you have said this stuff, also majority of us never proposed Speed of Light, your arguments about Ulterior motives is an appeal to bias and has nothing to do with the current topic of this thread

Also I said Natsu's Dragon Force would be unaffected at all, his FDKM is a whole other story

I wouldn't be talking about credibly as far as debating goes considering you have a big tendency to throw temper tantrums yourself over slight jokes and such mate, as seen literally an hour or two ago. Perhaps practice what you preach and then we'd get along.


You were literally the first one to bring up any light discussion regarding Larcade, don't act innocent Mitch, you are far from innocent. From light speed to wanked proposed AP upgrades and faulty calcs you've given me quite a good reason to think such.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

That said, the speed inconsistencies are a genuine argument. If these multipliers amp the speed of the cast to unreasonable levels then they pose an issue to scaling and hence should be set aside. Ffg this logic I’d say the earlier “At least” by Wrath would be a far better alternative

They don't, what the specific speed ratings will be after this thread needs a separate thread entirely, the verse will pretty much cap out at 10% SoL to possible 20% SoL, which is still consistent

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

The speed is what I really disagree with, at the moment I suppose the AP should be fine.

 

[LordGinSama]

Characters who struggle immensely performing Sub-Rel feats is indeed an inconsistency, you'd have several characters approaching and surpassing said speeds in eariler arcs. But that can be handled on the speed CRT.

 

[Davidsteel1]

I wouldn't be talking about credibly as far as debating goes considering you have a big tendency to throw temper tantrums yourself over slight jokes and such mate, as seen literally an hour or two ago. Perhaps practice what you preach and then we'd get along.


You were literally the first one to bring up any light discussion regarding Larcade, don't act innocent Mitch, you are far from innocent. From light speed to wanked proposed AP upgrades and faulty calcs you've given me quite a good reason to think such.

Just No.

Mitch wasn’t the one who proposed LS. Mitch collected and listed all the proposed upgrades ppl mentioned and decided he’d helm the crts to keep things from being chaotic.

CNAB3 was the consistent supporter of that upgrade and after we’d all literally rebuked him for months finally relented and agreed to have the crt, just to address his arguments

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I wouldn't be talking about credibly as far as debating goes considering you have a big tendency to throw temper tantrums yourself over slight jokes and such mate, as seen literally an hour or two ago. Perhaps practice what you preach and then we'd get along.


You were literally the first one to bring up any light discussion regarding Larcade, don't act innocent Mitch, you are far from innocent. From light speed to wanked proposed AP upgrades and faulty calcs you've given me quite a good reason to think such.

I mean in some regard that's fair, but a lot of the Light stuff I was discussing was just hypothetical and nothing concrete, I was just spitballing, I didn't make a CRT or boldly proclaim that we would get Speed of Light Fairy Tail, as for losing my temper over slight jokes, yeah I am guilty as charged, I have done those things on occasion, I'm not perfect and I make mistakes, but I try to be better

You ranting like you did in this thread is far worse than anything I have ever done

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

@Davidsteel1, @Wrath_Of_Itachi, and everyone else

We plan to make a specific speed CRT at a later date for what the characters ratings would be if we accept the 4x Speed Multiplier for Dragon Force, I know speed is a lot more controversial than AP and it will need to be gone over clearly as it's own topic, my current suggested ratings that I have in mind is that verse would cap at Baseline Relativistic and possibly higher, so I don't believe it is mega inconsistent, but I know it needs it's own discussion

So if we want to hold off on completely accepting the Speed Multiplier until the speed CRT, then that is completely acceptable

 

[Davidsteel1]

Yes... I suppose. Ppl seem to agree with the multipliers and I can’t come up with a honest argument atm so I’ll go with that

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with the OP, it looks solid.

 

[Elizhaa]

I also think the proposals look fine; I agree with them.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Judging from the responses, it looks like this has been accepted

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Well, this is relatively unanimously agreed upon in terms of AP Multiplier and majority agree with the speed Multiplier, but the speed itself will be another topic entirely that can be dug into, I'll wait till tomorrow to apply the minor changes just to be sure if anyone else has any last details, but so far, it's looking like the AP Multiplier will be accepted

BTW, these are the only ratings that will change, it's relatively minor all things considered, most tiers on the profile won't actually change at all, just the values behind each of the ratings themselves

X792
Base Wendy (1.325 Gigatons)
Base Gajeel (2.65 Gigatons)
Dragon Force Wendy and those that scale to her (5.3 Gigatons)
Dragon Force Gajeel and those that scale to him (10.6 Gigatons)
WSDF Sting and those that scale to him (21.2 Gigatons)

100 Year Quest
Base Natsu (10.6 Gigatons)
FDKM Natsu and those that scale to him (42.4 Gigatons)

 

[AKM sama]

The first 2 characters being 攻 and 撃 translate to attack and offense, and the 3rd character 力 translates to force, strength, and might, putting the first 3 characters put together literally translates to "Offensive ability or attack", the last 2 characters put together being 倍化 literally translates to double or twice the amount of something, so putting everything together literally translates to "Double or twice the Offensive Ability or Attack", the same applies to Ile Armor and Ile Vernier, with both meaning double durability and speed, so this means that her Ile Spells double all of her stats

I just have one question for this. Is this based on the name of the ability/technique alone? Or is there some kind of statement about it?

 

[CloverDragon03]

The spells themselves double attack, defense, and speed. The translation of the name itself simply reinforces this

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I just have one question for this. Is this based on the name of the ability/technique alone? Or is there some kind of statement about it?

It’s the actual name of the Enchantments, they literally just mean double the stats, so they’re pretty self explanatory for what they do, in fact the same exact kanji was used for a completely different anime mobile game where someone has an ability that doubles their attack power, so them being double the stats makes complete sense

 

[AKM sama]

If the official kanji is literally translated to that, I think it is straightforward then.

 

[AKM sama]

I mean I can't 100% prove this to you, but I did in fact ask someone who spoke the language what the exact meaning behind the Kanji as well as use a Kanji translator myself, I even chose to specifically go by each character to specify exactly what the meaning means

The google translate was also pretty direct about these kanjis, so I think they should be fine. But what Gin said is also true. It doesn't hurt to cover all bases so there aren't any problems in the future. You can ask @ShiroyashaGinSan or somebody else well-versed in the language to confirm this here.

 

[Damage3245]

In my opinion the most shaky thing about the proposal is assuming that the Deus Eques / Deus Corona stack on an additional 2x multiplier despite this not being stated anywhere, just becase they belong to a higher class of spell.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

In my opinion the most shaky thing about the proposal is assuming that the Deus Eques / Deus Corona stack on an additional 2x multiplier despite this not being stated anywhere, just becase they belong to a higher class of spell.

Well it would make sense that Deus Eques and Deus Corona would be superior to the Ile Spells, otherwise Wendy wouldn't use those Enchantments over the Ile Spells all the time now, and once again, this is supported by them being High Enchantments while the Ile Spells are not

It's logical to assume they would be at least comparable if not flat out superior to the Ile Spells

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

I translated it in my message board, and yeah it's a multiplier but at least for me, whatever you peeps want out of this for upgrade, I don't think this is enough to budge the rating. Just that it's multiplier don't mean we know how much. 1.5? 2? 3? It's too vague.

 

[BlackeJan]

Wait just in case could u show us the translation for it if possible? and which translation app or website is what we can use cause GoodTranslate isn’t that much reliable when it has tendency to translate incorrectly

 

[CloudStrife00T]

If they don't stack then why would wendy use them both at once ? How is that a shaky argument ?
..........

 

[Damage3245]

If they don't stack then why would wendy use them both at once ? How is that a shaky argument ?
..........

The other spells she's using aren't stated to be a 2x multiplier. It's just assumed that they are.

Also, those other spells are just said to increase the user's stats, right? Not explicitely multiply them. They could provide a boost without being a multiplier to her already multiplied power.

 

[Schnee_One]

Man these arguments are enough to make me yawn.

I agree.

 

[CloudStrife00T]

So wait are you saying that.
her power gets doubled via Ile arms then when she casts some other spell it is not actually staking but has a base increase of 3 or 4 times because after she casts it she is stronger than when she just cast ile arms ?

 

[Damage3245]

No, I'm saying the spells can stack on her base power but that's not the same as just multiplying the multipliers together.

Is it stated anywhere that those Deus spells mutliply her current power level / stats? Or do they just increase her stats? Because I took a quick look over at the FT wiki for a description on those spells and the chant for them, and there is nothing about multiplying there.

 

[CloudStrife00T]

So let me try to understand one more time.

If wendy's power is X then Ile arms make it 2X
but you are saying that Deus spells are also 2X(because they increase base power) rather than 2X (Ile arms inc.) * 2(deus increase)
right ?

 

[Damage3245]

@CloudStrife00T; sort of, yes. I'm saying there isn't enough evidence for it to be "2X * 2". There's nothing in the pages or spell descriptions about multiplying her already multiplied power.

 

[CloudStrife00T]

Is there such evidence needed in other verses ? If yes then which ?

 

[CloverDragon03]

I agree with Mitch. It wouldn’t make sense for Wendy to opt for Deus Eques over the Ile spells in later arcs if it weren’t at least comparable to them.

 

[CloverDragon03]

@CloudStrife00T; sort of, yes. I'm saying there isn't enough evidence for it to be "2X * 2". There's nothing in the pages or spell descriptions about multiplying her already multiplied power.

Wendy says that her defenses were multiplied several times over. Doesn’t that imply that they were stacked?

 

[Damage3245]

Is there such evidence needed in other verses ? If yes then which ?

I have no idea when this situation would have come up in other verses.

@DragonGamerZ913; not necessarily. She doesn't say multiplied several times over. She says enhanced. And I'm not saying the spells can't stack on top of her defenses, I'm just pointing out that isn't the same thing as a 4x multiplier to her base stats.

 

[CloudStrife00T]

Rather than wendy I think stats stack automatically no matter what verse unless said otherwise. After all if they don't stack then it makes no sense.
Specially when it comes to enhancement magic.

Like A casted a physical enhancement , agility enhancement and endurance enhancement on him which gives him 5X (X being base)
if then he casted a magic that increase All stats by 2X if they don't stack then it makes no sense to cast the other spell right ?

So it is basically understood that they stack unless stated otherwise.

That's why I asking is this proof needed in other verses or is it just being asked here as a way to reject multipliers for FT.

 

[Damage3245]

@CloudStrife00T; my point was though was that nowhere is it stated that Deus Eques multiplies her current stats.

 

[CloverDragon03]

“Several times” should be indicative of a multiplier though. Additionally, since the Ile enchantments have been shown as 2x boosts (down to the kanji in their names), and Deus Eques should be at least comparable.

Using a multiplier on top of another multiplier should stack them.

 

[CloudStrife00T]

So, you are saying we should use the algorithm 2X + 2X rather than 2X*2 ?

 

[Damage3245]

@CloudStrife00T; sort of; it would be more like "1 [Wendy's base power] + 1 [Boost from Ile spells] + 1 [Boost from Deus spells]" = 3x her base power.

 

[CloudStrife00T]

I see but you know in every other verse we use multiplier rather than addition. So, in this case Wendy is being treated as the exceptional case where her power adds up rather than multiplying. Do you have any proof that would help enforce the exception ?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but basically, you’re suggesting it’s an addition rather than multiplication?