Even More Super Mario Bros. Revisions

[Paleomario66]

Introductio

Before I start, Yes, I know we recently had a big Mario reviso, but I noticed several issues with a few of the revisions, as well as several other things that need to be addressed.

My Main Points:

• Mario has enough 4-A feats where they should be added to his profile again
• Mario's Massively FTL+ feats/scaling don't only come from Super Mario Galaxy 2, and he has a few FTL ones as well.
• The Power Star calc has a problem with it and it should be redone
• The Grand Star's profile doesn't need the 3-C rating
• Bowser powered up by the Grand Star should be upgraded to Low 2-C
• There are actually quite a few higher-end feats that should be considered, and a "possibly far higher rating for the main cast is possible (No, I'm not referring to Mario fighting with Dreamy Bowser or Zeekeeper)
• There's evidence that the realms that Bowser creates with the Power Stars in Super Mario 64/Super Mario 64 DS are larger than galaxies, and are likely universe-sized

Full Explanation of Points
The full explanation of the proposed revisions is in this Google Doc.

General Revision to Certain Profiles

Proposed New Power Star Tiering

Tier: Varies from High 4-C to 3-C, possibly at least Low 2-C Attack Potency: Varies from Large Star level+ to Galaxy level (Can create realms in pictures that contain at least a star and black holes with this level of power. It can also create realms with numerous stars and is stated to be comparable to Lumas by Rosalina, such are capable of becoming comets, planets, stars, and galaxies), possibly at least Universe level+ (Bob-omb Battlefield is described by Mario as a parallel world of some sorts when he calls it a world and compares it to the main verse's realm as a world. We also know Bowser made this pretty much instantly, since Mario was just arriving at the castle. And we know Bowser created these worlds individually, because Toad describes them as Bowser's "separate" worlds. Even if they were created over time, Bowser had to of created the time in the painting as well, as time and space cannot exist without the other. Further evidenced by how Tick Tock Clock is a world entirely based on time. If he didn't create time as well, he'd have Infinite speed for moving in timeless realms, which would make no sense.) Speed: Massively FTL+ (Can cross galaxies in a short time. Should be comparable to the Lumas, Launch Stars and Lubba's Starship) Durability: Varies from Large Star level+ to Galaxy level, possibly at least Universe level+ ​

Proposed New Grand Star Tiering
Tier: Low 2-C Attack Potency: Universe level+ (Leagues above the Power Stars. Can power the Galaxy Reactor. The Galaxy Reactor has been stated several times to be able to destroy the universe and create a new one. The Galaxy Reactor was even stated to decide the "Fate of the Universe") ​

Shadow Queen's Proposed New Tiering

Tier: 3-A Attack Potency: Universe level (Stronger than the Crystal Stars, which were stated to be able to reality warp the planet and the heavens, and were even stated to hold the very essence of the heavens, or all of space) Speed: FTL to Massively FTL+ (Could keep up with Mario) Lifting Strength: Class G via scaling from Mario Striking Strength: Universal Durability: Universe level (Can withstand attacks from the Crystal Stars), Virtual invulnerability made her nearly impossible to kill. ​

Antasma's Proposed New Tiering

Tier: Unknow | At least 4-A, likely 3-A, possibly Low 2-C | 2-B Attack Potency: Unknow (Fought evenly with Dreambert in his Bat form) | At least Multi-Solar System level, likely Universe level (Capable of manipulating the Dream World. The Dream World has several stars inside it, and each Dream World is its own universe, meaning Antasma would be manipulating an entire universe), possibly Universe level+ (Capable of overpowering and trapping Dreamy Luigi in his orbs and consuming him to increase his power. Dreamy Luigi managed to possess the concept of time itself) | Multiverse level with the Dark Stone (Dark equivalent of the Dream Stone. Fought the Zeekeeper) Speed: Massively FTL+ (Was able to keep up with Mario and Dreamy Luigi, the latter being able to fly into a constellation and a sun in mere seconds while possessing them and jump into space and grab a star in a few seconds) Lifting Strength: Unknow (Capable of carrying Bowser in his Bat form) Striking Strength: Unknow | At least Multi-Solar System Class, likely Universal, possibly Universal+ | Multiversal Durability: Unknow | At least Multi-Solar System level, likely Universe level, possibly Universe level+ | Multiverse level Key: Real World | Dream World | With the Dark Stone ​

Mario's Proposed New Tiering

Credit to Dillanmurillo Credit to Maxigamer Credit to Nibroc-Rock Tier: High 4-C to 4-A, possibly far higher | Varies from High 4-C to 3-C, possibly at least Low 2-C | 2-B Attack Potency: Large Star level+ (Comparable to Yoshi and capable of fighting Antasma, who can overpower Dreamy Luigi and gain more power after absorbing him) to Multi-Solar System level (Comparable to King Boo and Paper Mario in Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam, both of whom created realms with multiple stars in the background), possibly far higher (Fought Antasma, who manipulated the entire Dream World. Each Dream World is it's own universe, meaning Antasma is manipulating an entire universe. Antasma also grossly overpowered Dreamy Luigi, who possessed the concept of time itself. Fought Black Bowser and the Shadow Quee) | Varies from Large Star level+ to Galaxy level, possibly at least Universe level+ (Overpowered Bowser, who was wielding the Power Stars. With enough Power Stars, Mario can even combat Grand Star Bowser) | Multiverse level (The light equivalent of the Chaos Heart, which allowed him to defeat Super Dimentio after being empowered by it) Speed: FTL (Has escaped a black hole. Kept up with Bowser, who has escaped or resisted black holes and even a quasar) to Massively FTL+ (Can keep up with Antasma and Dreamy Luigi, the latter of whom is able to fly into a sun in mere seconds while possessing them, jump into space and grab a star in a few seconds, and even jump into constellations in a few seconds. Kept up with Tatanga's spaceship, which [https://i.imgur.com/s3AxZhl.jpg traveled interstellar distances] from deep space in a very short amount of time, or "suddenly." Superior to Lord Crump, who returned from being blasted out into deep space, far past even the moo, within, at absolute worst, a few hours. Swam past a sea of stars in Chapter 4 of Super Paper Mario, which is the equivalent of swimming several thousands of lightyears in a short amount of time. Can quickly travel between different galaxies and react with Launch Star. Dodged Bowser's meteor attacks, which can tag Starship Mario and flew the center of the universe in a short time) Lifting Strength: Class G (Effortlessly lifted a castle), certain power-ups like Mega Mushroom increase his strength even further Striking Strength: Large Star Class+ to Multi-Solar System Class, possibly far higher | Varies from Large Star Class+ to Galactic, possibly at least Universal+ | Multiversal Durability: Large Star level+ to Multi-Solar System level (Capable of taking hits from Antasma, even after receiving a boost a power from Dreamy Luigi), possibly far higher | Varies from Large Star level+ to Galaxy level, possibly at least Universe level+ (Can tank hits from a Power Star-boosted Bowser) | Multiverse level (Survived Super Dimentio's relentless attacks) Base | With the Power Star | With the Pure Hearts ​

Bowser's Proposed New Tiering

Tier: High 4-C to 4-A, possibly far higher | Varies from High 4-C to 3-C, possibly at least Low 2-C | 3-A | Low 2-C | 2-B Attack Potency: Large Star level+ to Multi-Solar System level (Stronger than Mario. Destroyed Dark Bowser who replicated his DNA), possibly far higher | Varies from Large Star level+ to Galaxy level, possibly at least Universe level+ (Was wielding the Power Stars) | Universe level (Was empowered and possessed by the Black Paint. The Black Paint makes up all of space itself, and is still within each individual color on their own (above link proves that; mixing all the colors makes Black Paint), which also give life to all of the landscape and people. Thus, we can safely conclude that anything that has color--which practically everything does--is made up of some amount of Black Paint, which would make it this tier due to it making up the physical matter of the entire universe) | Universe level+ (Powered by a Grand Star, which can power the Galaxy Reactor. The Galaxy Reactor has been stated several times to be able to destroy the universe and create a new one. The Galaxy Reactor was even stated to decide the "Fate of the Universe") | Multiverse level (Powered up by the Dream Stone, which is made of an innumerable amount of dreams by various species. Each individual dream world is a separate universe and the Zeekeeper can travel through several of them in a single dream) Speed: FTL (Has escaped or resisted black holes and even a quasar) to Massively FTL+ (Can keep up with Mario) | Massively FTL+ (Powered by Power Stars, which Can cross galaxies in a short time and should be comparable to the Lumas, Launch Stars and Lubba's Starship) | Likely FTL to Massively FTL+ | Massively FTL+ (Flew to the center of the universe in a short time. Tagged Lubba's spaceship with his meteors, which can fly at these speeds, along with Rosalina's Comet Observatory) | Massively FTL+ (Comparable to Antasma with the Dark Stone) Lifting Strength: Class G. Higher in Giant Form Striking Strength: Large Star Class+ to Multi-Solar System Class, possibly far higher | Varies from Large Star Class+ to Galactic, possibly at least Universal+ | Universal | Universal+ | Multiversal Durability: Large Star level+ to Multi-Solar System level, possibly far higher (Tanked the collapse of his Galaxy Reactor, which was stated to threaten the very fabric of the universe whilst extremely fatigued) | Varies from Large Star level+ to Galaxy level, possibly at least Universe level+ | Universe level | Universe level+ | Multiverse level (Became the physical manifestation of dream worlds and can tank attacks from the Zeekeeper) Key: Base | With the Power Stars | Black Bowser | With the Grand Stars in the SMG series | Dreamy Bowser ​

Paper Mario's Proposed New Tiering

Tier: High 4-C to 4-A Attack Potency: Large Star level+ to Multi-Solar System level, possibly far higher (Created a realm with multiple stars in the background. Comparable to Mario and Luigi) Speed: FTL to Massively FTL+ (Considerably faster than Mario) Lifting Strength: Class G Striking Strength: Large Star Class+ to Multi-Solar System Class, possibly far higher Durability: Large Star level+ to Multi-Solar System level, possibly far higher (Tanked several hits from Bowser, his paper counterpart, and his Elite Forces) ​

 

[Cropfist]

There's no evidence Paper Mario created that realm at all. But even that aside, multi-star feats in general got downgraded to large star level, which is why he was downgraded in the first place.

 

[Paleomario66]

I'm not referring to the constellation feats. I'm referring to the feats where entire realms with multiple stars are created. They shouldn't be High 4-C, because that would fail to take into account the space between those stars. It's different from Dreamy Luigi possessing only the stars in the constellation and not the space in between.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I agree with solid Low 2-C Grand Star and MFTL Mario.

Though I'm not too sure on the Low 2-C Power Stars, 4-A Paper Mario, 3-A Black Bowser or Shadow Queen.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

Following.

 

[Paleomario66]

@Cropfist: Even if he didn't create the realm, he still destroyed it. It's because of Paper Mario that the trio goes there, so it's also because of him, Luigi, and Mario the entire realm changes color and turns into paper scraps.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

This is a lot to go through. It seems OK at first glance, but I'll return to fully dissect this. It's very detailed.

 

[Cropfist]

I'm not referring to the constellation feats. I'm referring to the feats where entire realms with multiple stars are created. They shouldn't be High 4-C, because that would fail to take into account the space between those stars. It's different from Dreamy Luigi possessing only the stars in the constellation and not the space in between.

Celestial Body Feats

The space was accounted for, but it can't be calced so it can only result in large star level.

 

[Paleomario66]

https://spaceplace.nasa.gov/review/starfinder/

According to NASA, even the separate stars in various constellations are multiple, sometimes over a hundred, light years away.

"Other than making a pattern in Earth's sky, these stars may not be related at all. For example, Alnitak, the star at the left side of Orion's belt, is 817 light years away. (A light year is the distance light travels in one Earth year, almost 6 trillion miles!) Alnilam, the star in the middle of the belt, is 1340 light years away. And Mintaka at the right side of the belt is 916 light years away. Yet they all appear from Earth to have the same brightness.

ScorpiusEven the closest star is almost unimaginably far away. Because they are so far away, the shapes and positions of the constellations in Earth's sky change very, very slowly. During one human lifetime, they change hardly at all. So, since humans first noticed the night sky they have navigated by the stars. Sailors have steered their ships by the stars. Even the Apollo astronauts going to the Moon had to know how to navigate by the stars in case their navigation instruments failed."

Creating or destroying a realm even ten light years in size would easily exceed the minimum requirements for 4-A, and if the stars are even further away, the power needed to create/destroy a realm like this would be even higher.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I agree with the Bowser thing and that Sub-Rel rating is there for no reason and Mario and co. should be solidly MFTL+.

However, that's all I agree on.

 

[Paleomario66]

@Cal: Are you referring to Grand Star Bowser?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Yes.

 

[EMagoIorSouI]

I'm still trying to get my Antasma revisions to date...

 

[Asuka_the_Demonic_Empress]

Disagree with it all.

Sounds like a massive outlier, specccially 3-A Black Bowser and Shadow Quuen.

And arent those guides (Mario 64 and Galaxy) american made? How are they canon?

Maybe some japanese sources are required.

 

[Paleomario66]

How are the 4-A and Massively FTL+ feats outliers? And same for the Grand Star's Low 2-C showing. I fail to see how it's an outlier.

 

[Asuka_the_Demonic_Empress]

Well, you have zero evidence that Paper Mario´s Trio attack isnt an outlier.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

> shows many feats on that level and on a tier 4 level in general

> "you have no evidence that one feat right there isn't an outlier"

Oh, uhm-

 

[Asuka_the_Demonic_Empress]

There is no evidencce paper mario created the realm with the stars.

 

[The_Smashor]

The fact is Mario is IMMENSELY inconsistant. For example, he's been genuinly threatened by High 8-C explosions before. Namely in Paper Mario TTYD

 

[Paleomario66]

There is no evidencce paper mario created the realm with the stars.

@Cropfist: Even if he didn't create the realm, he still destroyed it. It's because of Paper Mario that the trio goes there, so it's also because of him, Luigi, and Mario the entire realm changes color and turns into paper scraps.

 

[The_Smashor]

It turns into paper scraps. IMPLYING IT WAS PAPER TO BEGIN WITH.

 

[Asuka_the_Demonic_Empress]

He didnt destroy it, you can easly just execccute the same attack again.

 

[Cropfist]

He doesn't destroy the realm either, he just destroys the platform and then the background returns to normal.

 

[Asuka_the_Demonic_Empress]

I mean, would Paper mario able to stamp stickers around or use scissors, would those be considered reality warping? Existence erasure? One Hit Kills?

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

The realm ceases to exist after the attack ends, though.

 

[Asuka_the_Demonic_Empress]

How do you know that they dont just leave?

Not to mention it is kinda illogiccal that the enemies dont get BFRd or damaged from being in front of a multi solar system level destruction.


Why would they recreate multiple solar systems just to throw small meteors at the enemies? PIS at the very darn least.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

Saying something was "paper to begin with" is irrelevant, by the way. This is world where the graphics all look like paper. Using the graphics as an argument isn't a valid arguments. I'd prefer if we wouldn't use nitpick non-points like that instead of giving actual arguments or thoughts on the subject.

For that matter, I have no problem with anything shown in the OP. Shadow Queen could be High 3-A, though, because the Overthere is infinite in size, but other than that, it's fine.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

How do I know they don't just leave? Because that's visually not what happens. And they're not within the Area of Effect of that destruction, so there is no reason for them to take damage. Even if they were, so what? It's a nice durability feat. And asking why they did it doesn't mean that they didn't do it. These are just more nitpicks.

 

[Asuka_the_Demonic_Empress]

How does this contradict what i said?

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

Because what you said isn't a refutation at all. It's just nitpicking at details that don't contradict the feat as being a feat.

 

[Asuka_the_Demonic_Empress]

I dont get you, i dont see pointing that out to be nitpicking.


I thought that pointing out errors was "acceptable" around here.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

It is. I pointed out your errors, as in, the "errors" you pointed out don't contradict the feat as being Multi-Solar System level.

 

[Asuka_the_Demonic_Empress]

Erm, yes they do.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

Not really. It just sounds like you don't understand how a feat could work under the circumstances given. "But he destroyed it and it didn't harm the foreground so it isn't a feat". This is like saying someone isn't FTL because we could see them, or that saying a ghost that can go through walls isn't intangible because a person could harm them physically, or that creating a fire in a wooden house isn't actual fire because it doesn't burn the house, or something like that. The fact it didn't destroy anything in the foreground is irrelevant because that's not within the Area of Effect. It's not Plot-Induced Stupidity because the feats are consistent. What's Character-Induced Stuoidity, however, is that he's fighting with meteors. It doesn't discredit the feat, though. That's like saying any realm creation feat is irrelevant is the person goes in the realm and doesn't fight with something of similar complexity to what they created. Is Demise not High 4-C or 4-B because he does not fling stars or solar systems at Link when he takes him into his realm? Or Majora?

 

[Asuka_the_Demonic_Empress]

Yes really, because they are legit questions that put some doubt on how legit those feats are.

 

[NotAMarioFan(lol)]

I agree with the black hole feat

 

[Paleomario66]

@NotAMarioFan: Which one?

 

[NotAMarioFan(lol)]

The Mario party and as for Giant Bowser maybe but I support as well

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

The questions don't really debunk the feat, though.

 

[Asuka_the_Demonic_Empress]

They put how unlikely they are on the spotlight.