Esper vs Hero

[NikHelton]

- Mob vs All Might -

• Speed Equalized
• Both were 6-C
• Round 1 - Both in character
• Round 2 - Both are bloodthirsty
• Shigeo - 100%, starts in Anger, but during the battle can enter a different emotional state. ??? unavailable.
• Toshinori - Wounded. Eager for battle.
• Place of battle: T
  
  he evacuated streets of Tokyo

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Mob doesnt have a 6-C key tho

Edit: Oh wait he does

Also, TK GG

 

[NikHelton]

This version is supposed to have a High 7-A+, but it gradually rises to a basic 6-C (Anger is a much weaker emotion than Shame, Resignation, and Bravery)

About telekinesis. LS All Might has a feat of 40 billion tons (this is calc with a huge metal cube where it performed this feat along with Decu. However, I'm not sure that dividing the feat by 2 is a fair result, and I think the main merit of the feat belongs to Toshinori, so that its lifting strength is in the range of 60-70 billion tons), while the low end of the Mob's lifting strength is 2.9 billion tons, and the high end is 11.6 billion tons, which gives almost 4 times, if not 6-7 times, the superiority of All Might. I don't think telekinesis works in this case.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Wounded All Might is ridiculously stronger than the All Might that did the LS feat, so the difference is actually higher than just 4x. That feat does fully scale to Deku btw. At 100%, he is framed as being comparable to that version of All Might by story and actions. Which is irrelevant since this version of AM is well over 2x stronger anyway.

As far as AP, AM should have it for basically the entire fight unless Mob's amps get him a decent bit past baseline. And even then, he'd just be competing with AM's air pressure, not actual punches, which are much stronger.

AM is more skilled in combat than Mob as well, from what I can tell. He's spent decades fighting super powered villains, the experience gap is quite massive. He'd figure out Mob's powers and counter them eventually, especially since Mob can't throw him around or keep him away.

Voting All Might. AP, LS, his own pseudo flight and a skill gap. Even with a stat amp, Mob doesn't seem to have many advantages here.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Brooo, Mob got upgraded? Neat

Air pressure means nothing against Mob's barriers that can actually withstand aerokinesis, I think.

Mob will not go into a direct H2H fight, never lol. He did only in few cases when he was really pissed off. And in Courage.

Bloodlusted Mob would turn All Might into a ball by twisting him probably.

How far can he go with pseudo flight?

 

[SpookyShadow]

I believe Wounded All Might has a time limit

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Was the aerokinesie he blocked almost twice as strong as him?

All Might can force cqc by flying to Mob.

He can't move All Might at all, his TK is weaker than AM's lifting strength by a huge amount. Any casual resistance from All Might would stop Mob's TK from working, especially since AM is already constantly flexing to keep up his muscle form.

Idk, he hasn't shown or implied a limit. He's never had a reason to go far above the clouds. I'd assume he can fly that high at least.

3 hours, yes.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

All Might can pseudo fly for a couple kilometers into the sky, actually. At I-Island, he casually yeeted himself to the top of the 200-story tower, and flew well beyond that height several times while fighting Wolfram on top of it. He didn't seem bothered at all by the height, so he should be able to go even higher as well.

 

[NikHelton]

Wounded All Might is ridiculously stronger than the All Might that did the LS feat, so the difference is actually higher than just 4x. That feat does fully scale to Deku btw. At 100%, he is framed as being comparable to that version of All Might by story and actions. Which is irrelevant since this version of AM is well over 2x stronger anyway.
As far as AP, AM should have it for basically the entire fight unless Mob's amps get him a decent bit past baseline. And even then, he'd just be competing with AM's air pressure, not actual punches, which are much stronger.

AM is more skilled in combat than Mob as well, from what I can tell. He's spent decades fighting super powered villains, the experience gap is quite massive. He'd figure out Mob's powers and counter them eventually, especially since Mob can't throw him around or keep him away.

Voting All Might. AP, LS, his own pseudo flight and a skill gap. Even with a stat amp, Mob doesn't seem to have many advantages here.

In General, things are as follows: Mob in Anger ~ 20% Toichiro < 25% Toichiro ~ Mob in Ecstasy < < Mob in Shame < 40% Toichiro < < < < 72% Toichiro < < Mob in Sadness < < < < 80% Toichiro < < < < < < < Mob in Resignation < < < < Mob in Bravery.

If to speak much easier: Mob in Sadness is capable to suppress the opponent that repeatedly surpassed him in Anger, and Mob in Resignation with absolute ease deals with the opponent that easily beat him in Sadness. Moreover, the Mob in Resignation almost dies from a single attack of 100% Toichiro, while the Mob in Bravery is able to take his attacks, though with difficulty.

With this scaling, Mob's AP goes well beyond the 6-C baseline and I think it gives us parity with the brute force of All Might.


Well, in defense of Shigeo, I will say that he can absorb all the attacks of Toshinori and redirect it, also pump out energy from it through the plant's manhole, or in extreme cases, wrap it in a huge ball of buildings and throw it into orbit.

 

[NikHelton]

All Might can pseudo fly for a couple kilometers into the sky, actually. At I-Island, he casually yeeted himself to the top of the 200-story tower, and flew well beyond that height several times while fighting Wolfram on top of it. He didn't seem bothered at all by the height, so he should be able to go even higher as well.

Mob is also able to fly, and do it at high speeds. In the battle with Toichiro, he flew many kilometers up.
Among other things, Shigeo has a greater range of attacks. While All Might is able to attack it at a distance of tens of kilometers only with the help of air flows directed along a direct vector, Mob can use a variety of attacks and impacts from a distance of tens of kilometers.
Moreover, judging by the anthology written with the participation of One, the range of Shigeo can increase to hundreds of kilometers.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Bit overkill on the arrows, but sure. AM just goes "if air pressure is enough to harm you, direct hits will one shot you."

Can Mob reflect or absorb pure kinetic energy? It says on his page that his attack reflection and absorption is for psychic energy, not a straight up punch from someone that's just that strong.

If he can just absorb all of AM's hits, and then reflect them, that makes this kinda a stomp.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Speed is equal, so they'd be moving at relative speed to each other. The range of Mob's attacks mainly seem to be "hit or restrain opponent with this", of which AM can brute force his way through or tank a large portion of his arsenal. Mob has more ways of hitting AM, but AM's way of dealing with them kinda boils down to "punch it away."

All Might can punch upwards and reach tens of kilometers with his air pressure too? Idk exactly what you mean by he was helped with air flows along a direct vector, he just punches and the force of his punch goes that far. This is supported by something that is spoilery, but take my word for it when I say his air pressure does actually just travel that far.

 

[NikHelton]

Bit overkill on the arrows, but sure. AM just goes "if air pressure is enough to harm you, direct hits will one shot you."
Can Mob reflect or absorb pure kinetic energy? It says on his page that his attack reflection and absorption is for psychic energy, not a straight up punch from someone that's just that strong.

If he can just absorb all of AM's hits, and then reflect them, that makes this kinda a stomp.

I don't know about the absorption of KE, but it was already absorbing the energy of natural lightning and pumping energy out of the atmosphere.


I already got rid of arrows and spoke in a simpler way, but you can put it even this way: Mob in Resignation simply stomp the opponent, which easily beat his version more much stronger than the one that has an easy feat in 2,4 Gigatons. Moreover, the Mob in Bravery is able to withstand the attacks that should have killed it in the state of Resignation.

And there aren't many shooters. One change of 7% was enough for Mob to give up the bloodless way of defeating an opponent and be severely beaten. The difference in the remaining 20% was enough to almost kill him.

 

[NikHelton]

Speed is equal, so they'd be moving at relative speed to each other. The range of Mob's attacks mainly seem to be "hit or restrain opponent with this", of which AM can brute force his way through or tank a large portion of his arsenal. Mob has more ways of hitting AM, but AM's way of dealing with them kinda boils down to "punch it away."
All Might can punch upwards and reach tens of kilometers with his air pressure too? Idk exactly what you mean by he was helped with air flows along a direct vector, he just punches and the force of his punch goes that far. This is supported by something that is spoilery, but take my word for it when I say his air pressure does actually just travel that far.

Well, Shigeo can still affect All Might through third-party items, let's just say wrap it in a ball of buildings and throw it out of orbit before it can do anything about it.

In an extreme case, he can leave his body and use the astral body to capture the body of the hero. However, at this point, the Mob itself is defenseless and it will be a risky move.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Well, if he can absorb KE, this thread is quite stompy, as AM can't even Nomu him down due to Mob reflecting his hits back.

So Mob with his stronger/strongest(?) emotions should be somewhat comparable to AM in stats, good to know.

Wouldn't AM just break the ball? He can just punch forwards and jump through the hole he makes in the ball as well. Or throw the ball back at Mob.

I would hope Mob doesn't try to take over AM's body, because then he has to fight all the predecessors of OFA, all of whom should be as strong as All Might since, inside his soul, they're the literal embodiments of his power. I don't think that would go too well for Mob.

 

[NikHelton]

The power of Shigeo's astral body in the world of mind is not inferior to his real power. Moreover, if you consider the anime, it has a greater level of power there than in the real body.
From what was shown were rays hundreds of meters in diameter, evaporating the soil for kilometers in depth. Massive explosions that cause entire neighborhoods to melt. Moreover, the soul of Shigeo has Regenerationn and is able to recover after being torn to shreds. In addition, it is able to destroy spiritual projections, ignoring high-level Regenerationn. And in General in the world of the mind, he is strong as much as you want and can do.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

I didn't imply his power was inferior. Just that, theoretically, he'd now be fighting 7 All Mights, all with their own diverse super powers, trying to force him away from their collective body. They don't need to kill his soul, just get him away from All Might while he beats on his unconscious body. Would Mob even do this in character? Or even bloodlusted? It says on his profile it's unknown if he can actually possess people.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

And in General in the world of the mind, he is strong as much as you want and can do.

So what, Mob is infinitely powerful as a soul or something?

 

[NikHelton]

I can't say about infinite power, but it must scale to the point where It was able to create two parallel cities that seemed infinite with the local space-time.
He also changed his body and gained strength just by imagining it, so I think it can be used to its potential.
And Yes, Mob can take over people. This is exactly what he did, trying to banish the Mogami.

I think that he can simply hide from his opponent somewhere underground and create a passive barrier for himself, then leave the body and move into All Might.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

I'd like some scans of all of this infinite creation and infinite body amp stuff. This sounds like NLF, but if you have evidence I'll believe it.

Again, why would he use astral projection in the first place? If he's starting Angry, he'd be trying to fight with AM, and from what I've seen, not even bloodlusted Mob goes for this option. Also, him trying to possess AM, again, leads to conflict with the predecessors of OFA, who are literally all of AM's power. They'd hold him off long enough for his body to get one shot.

All Might could just follow after him underground, break the barrier and one shot his unconscious body? And when has this ever been a viable option for Mob in a straight up fight where he's currently pissed off? This doesn't even seem like something ???% would do, and that's literally bloodlusted Mob.

Also, if everything you're saying is true, you just made a stomp thread. Because it seems like All Might can't do anything to win from your perspective.

 

[NikHelton]

I'd like some scans of all of this infinite creation and infinite body amp stuff. This sounds like NLF, but if you have evidence I'll believe it.
Again, why would he use astral projection in the first place? If he's starting Angry, he'd be trying to fight with AM, and from what I've seen, not even bloodlusted Mob goes for this option. Also, him trying to possess AM, again, leads to conflict with the predecessors of OFA, who are literally all of AM's power. They'd hold him off long enough for his body to get one shot.

All Might could just follow after him underground, break the barrier and one shot his unconscious body? And when has this ever been a viable option for Mob in a straight up fight where he's currently pissed off? This doesn't even seem like something ???% would do, and that's literally bloodlusted Mob.

Also, if everything you're saying is true, you just made a stomp thread. Because it seems like All Might can't do anything to win from your perspective.

Read The Mogami arch and watch their battle in the anime.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Or you could show me? And not recommend I read/watch an entire arc of anime?

 

[NikHelton]

I don't think every All Might predecessor scales up to itself.

However, even so-Shigeo has already shown that he can cast out equal spirits without difficulty, as he destroyed the Mogami's body.
Regarding the fact that All Might be able to destroy his body. Mogami created a whole world in the head of an ordinary girl without resistance, where time flowed in its own way. The whole six months in this world were minutes in the real world. I think that if Mob moved Into the body of All Might, the flow of time in the mind would be the same, so it wouldn't take much time in the real world

 

[NikHelton]

Or you could show me? And not recommend I read/watch an entire arc of anime?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feVW0Qxa51A

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Why wouldn't they.

So are you pushing for this to be a stomp or what? I don't exactly understand your purpose in creating this thread if you know it's a stomp via hax.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Also, please answer my question. Why would Mob astral project into All Might anyway. Why wouldn't he just fight him. ???% doesn't even seem to do this, so not even bloodlusted would Mob just hijack someone's body. So why is this the current argument anyway.

 

[NikHelton]

Why wouldn't they.
So are you pushing for this to be a stomp or what? I don't exactly understand your purpose in creating this thread if you know it's a stomp via hax.

I just gave an example of one of the developments of events, no more.

In my view, the fight will take place like this-Shigeo starts in Anger, wanting to knock out his opponent. All Might is not serious at first and wants a fun competition. Here Mob will simply throw it with fragments of buildings and spam with energy explosions, as well as entwine it with a loophole and pump out the life force. If he succeeds in weakening his opponent sufficiently, he will knock him out over time. 1 round passes without the Resignation of the regime to kill not in the nature of Shigeo. I think in a state of courage, he has a chance. I also don't know about LS. He performed the 11 billion ton feat in Anger, but he could not use telekinesis directly on Suzuki. In Resignation, he completely suppressed his barrier with his telekinesis, and Bravery should be stronger.

Round 2 can pull the Resignation if Shigeo starts affecting all Might's internal organs before it deals enough damage. I can't say exactly who will win. However, Mob has 1 more mode (Psychosis, Rage, Bloodlust, it has no name). In General, I don't know how much more powerful it is than Anger, but it had a strong desire to kill and the breakdown scale went very far from the usual 100%, so in theory it should be stronger than Resignation.

 

[NikHelton]

BUMP

 

[NikHelton]

BUMP

 

[Necromercer]

Yeah, Mob FRA

 

[Schnee_One]

Isn't this a stomp?

 

[Planck69]

Doesn't All Might need to jump to use his pseudo-flight? Not sure if he'd be able to generate thrust when Mob's opening move would be to restrain him with telekinesis and lift him into the air (and it's not as though he can struggle against an intangible force).

Also, 100% Mob at his strongest crushes a person who at the time was several times stronger than a form of his that was comparable to a Mob that performed the feat in question semi-casually. He should be able to somewhat keep up with Prime All Might in raw power.

So the way this fight goes, Mob restrains AM with TK and proceeds to either rag-doll him to oblivion or through him into orbit if he realizes that All Might is too durable for that to work in a viable timeframe.

Mob stomps.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Mob indeed stomps.

 

[NikHelton]

All Might still resists TK with its LS outperforming Mob by more than 40-60 times.

 

[Planck69]

All Might still resists TK with its LS outperforming Mob by more than 40-60 times.

Lifting strength doesn't mean anything when you literally can't interact with your bindings. Maybe it would if All Might could get off the ground quick enough but Mob starts with thought based telekinesis and lifts him into the air, effectively taking away his ability to generate thrust against the force holding him.

 

[NikHelton]

So in your opinion , a character wit h a class t L S tha t can brea k shackle s an d lif t weight s can disabl e a characte r wit h a T K of at leas t clas s 5, jus t becaus e h e ca n' t resis t?

I think it will be the same situation as with Garou and Psykos, when the first one started to resist, at the expense of force.

 

[Planck69]

So in your opinion , a character wit h a class t L S tha t can brea k shackle s an d lif t weight s can disabl e a characte r wit h a T K of at leas t clas s 5, jus t becaus e h e ca n' t resis t?

I think it will be the same situation as with Garou and Psykos, when the first one started to resist, at the expense of force.

It's not a matter of resistance, All Might literally has no hold for him to ignore the pull nor could he generate a push against Mob's TK. So yes, even a character with Class 1 LS could restrain a person with higher LS provided that speed is equalized and he opens with it.

We give Garou resistance to psychic powers for that feat, it doesn't correlate to LS in any way.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Nik, look up the word leverage.

You need to have any sort of leverage to have any sort of lifting strength. It doesn't matter if you can bench press the planet, it's kinda pointless if you are floating in the air and can't find something to press against.

Unless All Might has Flight, he can't do shit.