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Emrakul VS YHVH
- Thread starter Primaris_Brian
- Start date
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Tiv, I just checked most of the high tier SMT profiles. None, not even YHVH have any Regenerationn on their profiles. You sure you're not confusing it with immortality either type 4 or 8?
Also, mid godly, let alone high godly regen is very helpful in hifhbtier fights, iirc, we had a thread about high godly and we came to a decision that even tier 1s would have trouble with that level of regen from someone on the same tier.
Also, mid godly, let alone high godly regen is very helpful in hifhbtier fights, iirc, we had a thread about high godly and we came to a decision that even tier 1s would have trouble with that level of regen from someone on the same tier.
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"Nearly all high tier gods and demons have high-godly regen, including YHVH himself." It's not on their profiles so I need actually proof. Regen will always be useful unless you're 1-A or above.
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Came back from checking, and Satan does have Regenerationn of mid godly, but the description is that of what would be qualified as type 8 immortality
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That's type 8 immortality, Tiv.
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Technically it isn't. If you can be killed by destroying a concept (And then having your body destroyed), that's just Mid-Godly.
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"He can regenerate from alternative realities." That's Low-Godly Regenerationn unless the SMT-verse was also destroyed.
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High-Godly regen clearly states that a character can "regenerate even if your existence is erased and the reality you are within is destroyed."
Therefore, unless the character and SMT-verse is erased from existence and they still regenerate, it's not High-Godly.
Therefore, unless the character and SMT-verse is erased from existence and they still regenerate, it's not High-Godly.
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From my understanding, reality was everything in your verse. But if SMT has a different interpretation of "reality", I suppose that can work.
I guess it's inconclusive given neither can really put down the other.
I guess it's inconclusive given neither can really put down the other.
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Pretty sure I explained above with Emrakul's fundamental nature, though you don't just need to be a stronger god to put down Emrakul's type 4 permanently. You need to be beyond the Blind Eternities as a whole, since that's what the Eldrazi Titans are linked to.Not Jim Sterling said:
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- Thread starter
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Okay then, btw satan regen and description need to be changed so you don't need to explain over and over again why YHVH can kill high godly regen.
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This is true for High-Godly regen, yes. A being with High-Godly regen would be able to regenerate even if the traditional reality of their verse was destroyed.BreloomFanboy said:
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Really? Then why was Tivanenk stating otherwise?
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I don't know. He must be confusing it with Low-Godly regen, which can involve regenerating from a separate part of yourself/your consciousness from another universe/plane of reality. Similar to what Dark Schneider can do.BreloomFanboy said:
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Weird, I told him the same thing but he continued to argue.
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I'm not confusing it. Since gods in SMT are beings that are created from the truth, they will continue to regenerate as long as the truth exists, from the Axiom. The only beings that are able to determine the truth are humans. So even if their existence is completely wiped out and the universe they existed in is also wiped out, then they call still regenerate as long as the Truth about them still exists.Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
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That's not High-Godly rege, its Low-Godly and Mid at best.
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Universe. Not the verse itself. High-Godly regen would be coming back even if you were erased along with the rest of your verse, and is usually only something that can be overwritten by a being or force of impossibly greater magnitude.Tivanenk said:
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Universe. Not the verse itself. High-Godly regen would be coming back even if you were erased along with the rest of your verse, and is usually only something that can be overwritten by a being or force of impossibly greater magnitude.Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
It says reality. Reality is anything that you reside in. For instance, your reality is the universe itself. Even if other universes existed. The hell is Emrakul given High-Godly then when he uses the Blind Eternities in the same way YHVH uses the Axiom to recover?
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The definition of reality for said Regenerationn is the entirety of the verse's reality. A single universe in a verse containing an infinite amount and beyond would not be considered reality, especially if said being's entirety resides beyond such things.Tivanenk said:
Emrakul has Mid-Godly regen at the least due to the entity being able to come back from not existing, on its own. The being's fundamental nature is one of being and not being simultaneously, so this is not out of place. The reason possibly High-Godly is there is due to the fact that were the M:tG verse destroyed, the void remaining would essentially be what the Blind Eternities already are unless some unfathomably greater force was able to wipe the verse away entirely on a conceptual level on a far higher scale than the Eternities themselves. Unless this happens, it is a likely possibility the entity could just return, since it has no ties to the rest of the multiverse, regardless.
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Because the Blind Eternities themselves aren't sentient and to my knowledge have never turned on the Eldrazi.
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Emrakul
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The Axiom is not sentient in the way humans are, because it is beyond that. It still actively created Messiahs who then went on to kick YHVH's ass. In fact, he was the Axiom's enemy in IV: Apocalypse, if I recall. That is very different than the relationship between the Eldrazi and a void with no mind whatsoever.Tivanenk said:
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The Axiom is not sentient in the way humans are, because it is beyond that. It still actively created Messiahs who then went on to kick YHVH's ass. In fact, he was the Axiom's enemy in IV: Apocalypse, if I recall. That is very different than the relationship between the Eldrazi and a void with no mind whatsoever.Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
No, that's not correct at all. The Axiom just responds to humanity's Observations, creating messiahs if humanity will for it. It doesn't not actively participate in the world, but rather is the binding force of the universe itself. It's only sentient in the vaguest sense.
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The Axiom is supposed to "view" the world through the eyes of the Messiahs, as well. It still has some kind of mind, or at the very least represents a notable will or force. It is not completely and utterly blank and chaotic, and YHVH died permanently in the Massacre Route because everything was removed from the old universe and no one believed in him anymore, meaning he couldn't revive and thus could no longer exist. The Axiom does not actively revive him, nor does it always revive him. Methods can be taken to make him gone for good, and it does not require doing anything to the Axiom, either.Tivanenk said:
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The Axiom is supposed to "view" the world through the eyes of the Messiahs, as well. It still has some kind of mind, or at the very least represents a notable will or force. It is not completely and utterly blank and chaotic, and YHVH died permanently in the Massacre Route because everything was removed from the old universe and no one believed in him anymore, meaning he couldn't revive and thus could no longer exist. The Axiom does not actively revive him, nor does it always revive him. Methods can be taken to make him gone for good, and it does not require doing anything to the Axiom, either.Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
Did you even pay attention in the Massacre Route about the Godslayer spiel? He was killed through Flynn's power of Observation since he was supposed to act as your Godslayer. That's the reason Nanashi could become the new Creator. Had Nanashi not brought Flynn with him, he wouldn't have been able to kill YHVH.
There are only two counters to the Axiom in SMT verse. Overpowering the Axiom, or be able to Observe the world (Power of Observation). YHVH didn't have both, which is why he had to resort to sealing forgotten Gods, whom even if no one believed in them anymore, still proved to be bothersome for him.
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Yes, I did. It's not the point. It's not about YHVH being killed. That would be about immortality.Tivanenk said:
The point is YHVH stayed dead once he was killed, and the reason for such a thing was because no one believed in him, meaning he wouldn't come back.
If the verse was wiped, with the exception of the Axiom, YHVH would not regenerate. There would be no one to believe in YHVH, and thus the Axiom would not bring him back. That is not High-Godly regen.
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Yes, I did. It's not the point. It's not about YHVH being killed. That would be about immortality.Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
The point is YHVH stayed dead once he was killed, and the reason for such a thing was because no one believed in him, meaning he wouldn't come back.
If the verse was wiped, with the exception of the Axiom, YHVH would not regenerate. There would be no one to believe in YHVH, and thus the Axiom would not bring him back. That is not High-Godly regen.
YHVH doesn't need anyone to believe in him once the truth is established. Case in point: forgotten gods like Quatzcatoatl couldn't be put down permanently by YHVH, even though nobody believed in them anymore, which forced him to resort to sealing.
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Sorry to intrude, but wouldn't it be better to use the "@Username" method or at least do a "snip" in the quote?
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The truth is part of the old reality. Once that is gone, and YHVH's followers are gone, he doesn't come back, regardless of if the Axiom is affected or not. Again, if something in the old reality is required in order for you to come back, you do not have High-Godly regen. If it was only the Axiom required for YHVH to return, then the argument could be made for High-Godly regen.Tivanenk said:
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The truth is part of the old reality. Once that is gone, and YHVH's followers are gone, he doesn't come back, regardless of if the Axiom is affected or not. Again, if something in the old reality is required in order for you to come back, you do not have High-Godly regen. If it was only the Axiom required for YHVH to return, then the argument could be made for High-Godly regen.Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
The truth resides withi the Axiom. Case in point: when YHVH is slain, Satan doesn't disappear, but returns to Axiom instead.
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If the truth resided in the most fundamental part of the Axiom, one would need to directly alter the Axiom to get rid of it. YHVH stayed dead from the combination of the old reality being replaced and no one believing in him. Neither of these things would be necessary if he had High-Godly regen. Only the Axiom's existence, due to it being above the rest of the verse's "reality", would be needed.
