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I recently played Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne HD Remaster, and thus have gotten a lot more interested in SMT as a whole and getting into others; next one I might play when I have time is SMTV. But I looked through the pages and noticed some inconsistencies in the stats that don't always line up with the scaling chains mentioned. I'll start with the weakest characters we have on the profile and work up.
The weakest demons at least as far as ones with profiles are the regular commoner forms are Pixie and Jack Frost. They are rated as 8-C based on two feats; the boulder moving feat and this outdated calculation. The issues? The latter is actually 9-A now. But this may not be a downgrade, but an upgrade. I made a calculation pending input, but it may actually give a slight upgrade. But the previous link for Lharm Derg vaporization should still be replaced. There are a few early game protagonists who have keys scaling to them in AP and speed. Only human characters effected by this are the early game Navarre and Asahi
Now next topic since it's pretty short is the speed. I know most if not everyone should pretty much be Immeasurable. There were a couple 1-A characters with Unknown speed ratings whom was agreed to just outright upscale from characters much weaker who also have Immeasurable speed. Also, I noticed every demon save the 2 mentioned have Immeasurable in all keys save ones Omnipresent. But the issue is that we have a whole bunch of protagonists in their early game keys; some ranging from Tier 8 to Low 2-C who are rated as Relativistic+ to Speed of Light to FTL scaling from Plasmas who attack using EMR Waves. Sure looks cool, but in the AP section. It mentions that they also scale from Aeros. And according to the likes of Nemissa or Demi-Fiend, Aeros are Immeasurable speed and those are comparable to Plasma's too apparently. So perhaps we could upgrade all those Relativistic+, Speed of Light, or FTL characters to Immeasurable? Or should those two have their early keys downgraded. If the statements on Demi-Fiend's profile are true, I'd vote for the upgrade. And of course Nahobino really should be Immeasurable since he scales from Anahita most likely.
Now as for the Tier 8 to Tier 6 scaling, while the 8-C and High 8-C's might gets upgrades via Pixie's feat, some other 8-A to 6-B are pretty inconsistent. King Frost has a neat High 6-A feat, but I'm wondering where Black Frost would be. He can only be fought after numerous Low 1-C bosses are beaten, and he guards the Satan Magatama. He is also an optional boss, and optional bosses tend to be stronger than even various late game bosses. Speaking of which, Demi-Fiend's profile in his Low 2-C key has mentions of Thor being in his scaling chain who is Low 1-C. Several other Low 2-C characters have "Superior to Thor" mentioned in the speed sections. Seems like some Low 2-C's should be Low 1-C if it's consistent. Not sure how that would effect Matador however, he may be the weakest of the 10 fiends but I wasn't sure how he's that much weaker. Though he is stated to be comparable to Morax which is where the Low 2-C scaling starts. Speaking of which Yumiko is Low 2-C early on for no reason. But her late game key says she's comparable to Akemi, who is Low 1-C in early game while being comparable to Loki and the like. So Low 1-C for hear early game same reasons? Then there is this guy, his 6-B not only mentions Aeros and plasma in scaling chains, he also defeated Archangels. Which based on Michael or Gabriel, Archangels are Low 1-C. Demi-Fiend also fights them fairly early game too. Though I guess it's skeptical to assume the nameless common archangels are on par with the real archangels. But Tanado's Low 1-C also mentions three characters who are Low 1-C, most notable Asura. So more inconsistencies?
Now there are some Low 1-C's who appear like they belong in the 1-A scaling. Theodore is listed as being equal to Elizabeth, but he's only Low 1-C where as she is 1-A. Elizabeth defeated multiple entities who are 1-A apparently, so 1-A. Also, Noah also feels downplayed. Despite being a boss in the Tower of Kagutsuchi, he is only Low 1-C. I am not disagreeing with him being overall weaker than Ahriman or Baal Avatar, but why would be weaker than various 1-A characters fought as common enemies such as Mitra and Mot (Who is consistently stated to be equal Anat and Baal on a lot of profiles) Mot and Mitra were also bosses in the Diet Building before this. Noah is easily above Demi-Chiaki who stomped the combined might of the three Archangels if you decide to agree with her. I know Thor also appears in that tower and was stomped by Demi-Fiend but so was Baal Avatar Chiaki. I know it seems a bit outliersish, but Odin at least got a 1-A key in SMT4, so maybe Thor could get the same for SMT3 End Game? He was both an early game boss and and near end game boss. I know some people might argue the Four Heavenly Kings would have a 1-A feat by this logic since they guard the Masakados Magatama and require beating Ahriman at minimum before facing them. But those are outliers or something that would grant a very specific amp. Still, I think all Tower of Kagutsuchi bosses should be fairly within the same ballpark. And don't have much to say for many others though I do notice games with a lot of profiles have inconsistencies where only some characters have 1-A end game keys while others are Low 1-C.
Edit: Some other things were discussed, so a recap of what is agreed and what is rejected.
The weakest demons at least as far as ones with profiles are the regular commoner forms are Pixie and Jack Frost. They are rated as 8-C based on two feats; the boulder moving feat and this outdated calculation. The issues? The latter is actually 9-A now. But this may not be a downgrade, but an upgrade. I made a calculation pending input, but it may actually give a slight upgrade. But the previous link for Lharm Derg vaporization should still be replaced. There are a few early game protagonists who have keys scaling to them in AP and speed. Only human characters effected by this are the early game Navarre and Asahi
Now next topic since it's pretty short is the speed. I know most if not everyone should pretty much be Immeasurable. There were a couple 1-A characters with Unknown speed ratings whom was agreed to just outright upscale from characters much weaker who also have Immeasurable speed. Also, I noticed every demon save the 2 mentioned have Immeasurable in all keys save ones Omnipresent. But the issue is that we have a whole bunch of protagonists in their early game keys; some ranging from Tier 8 to Low 2-C who are rated as Relativistic+ to Speed of Light to FTL scaling from Plasmas who attack using EMR Waves. Sure looks cool, but in the AP section. It mentions that they also scale from Aeros. And according to the likes of Nemissa or Demi-Fiend, Aeros are Immeasurable speed and those are comparable to Plasma's too apparently. So perhaps we could upgrade all those Relativistic+, Speed of Light, or FTL characters to Immeasurable? Or should those two have their early keys downgraded. If the statements on Demi-Fiend's profile are true, I'd vote for the upgrade. And of course Nahobino really should be Immeasurable since he scales from Anahita most likely.
Now as for the Tier 8 to Tier 6 scaling, while the 8-C and High 8-C's might gets upgrades via Pixie's feat, some other 8-A to 6-B are pretty inconsistent. King Frost has a neat High 6-A feat, but I'm wondering where Black Frost would be. He can only be fought after numerous Low 1-C bosses are beaten, and he guards the Satan Magatama. He is also an optional boss, and optional bosses tend to be stronger than even various late game bosses. Speaking of which, Demi-Fiend's profile in his Low 2-C key has mentions of Thor being in his scaling chain who is Low 1-C. Several other Low 2-C characters have "Superior to Thor" mentioned in the speed sections. Seems like some Low 2-C's should be Low 1-C if it's consistent. Not sure how that would effect Matador however, he may be the weakest of the 10 fiends but I wasn't sure how he's that much weaker. Though he is stated to be comparable to Morax which is where the Low 2-C scaling starts. Speaking of which Yumiko is Low 2-C early on for no reason. But her late game key says she's comparable to Akemi, who is Low 1-C in early game while being comparable to Loki and the like. So Low 1-C for hear early game same reasons? Then there is this guy, his 6-B not only mentions Aeros and plasma in scaling chains, he also defeated Archangels. Which based on Michael or Gabriel, Archangels are Low 1-C. Demi-Fiend also fights them fairly early game too. Though I guess it's skeptical to assume the nameless common archangels are on par with the real archangels. But Tanado's Low 1-C also mentions three characters who are Low 1-C, most notable Asura. So more inconsistencies?
Now there are some Low 1-C's who appear like they belong in the 1-A scaling. Theodore is listed as being equal to Elizabeth, but he's only Low 1-C where as she is 1-A. Elizabeth defeated multiple entities who are 1-A apparently, so 1-A. Also, Noah also feels downplayed. Despite being a boss in the Tower of Kagutsuchi, he is only Low 1-C. I am not disagreeing with him being overall weaker than Ahriman or Baal Avatar, but why would be weaker than various 1-A characters fought as common enemies such as Mitra and Mot (Who is consistently stated to be equal Anat and Baal on a lot of profiles) Mot and Mitra were also bosses in the Diet Building before this. Noah is easily above Demi-Chiaki who stomped the combined might of the three Archangels if you decide to agree with her. I know Thor also appears in that tower and was stomped by Demi-Fiend but so was Baal Avatar Chiaki. I know it seems a bit outliersish, but Odin at least got a 1-A key in SMT4, so maybe Thor could get the same for SMT3 End Game? He was both an early game boss and and near end game boss. I know some people might argue the Four Heavenly Kings would have a 1-A feat by this logic since they guard the Masakados Magatama and require beating Ahriman at minimum before facing them. But those are outliers or something that would grant a very specific amp. Still, I think all Tower of Kagutsuchi bosses should be fairly within the same ballpark. And don't have much to say for many others though I do notice games with a lot of profiles have inconsistencies where only some characters have 1-A end game keys while others are Low 1-C.
Edit: Some other things were discussed, so a recap of what is agreed and what is rejected.
- Low 2-C and below are not Immeasurable and are to be downgraded to Relativistic+ combat speed
- Pixies getting upgraded to 8-B as well as other fodder demons/characters who scale
- Nameless Archangels are NOT Low 1-C, so some characters being that high that early on is rejected
- Some deleted pages might need to be removed from the verse page until they get remade
- Some protagonists are going to have their early keys reorganized to match who they scale from, but may be saved for a later thread and details will be spared until ready
- Noah scaling to other bosses in the Tower of Kagutsuchi still has yet to be discussed
- It has yet to be decided if Thor being a Tower of Kagutsuchi boss is an outlier, or if he may have an end of SMT III exclusive key
- Theodore being Elizabeth's equal and being 1-A looks pretty simple but no comments were made
- Plenty of other things that should be saved for later and NOT for this thread.
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