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Elder Evils CRT

also just noticed you misspelled Pandorym

was confused as hell why it wasn't popping up
 
don'tchu worry boyo

all fixed now
 
he already has Power Bestowal though
 
Oh, I just missed it since its at the end. My bad. Guess I got a link to the source at least.
 
yeah it helps, I'll add them in

Think I might go through and add all the big guys from Champions of Ruin since I've got it on me rn
 
Cool. The Elf Eater is one of the weirder FR Elder Evils.
 
and the one immediately after Kezef lol

also went to look for artwork... yikes.
 
Well wait, from what I see (FR isn't my most knowledgeable campagin setting), not every of the Champions of Ruin is an Elder Evil. Only the Chaos Hound, Dendar, and Ityak-Ortheel are Elder Evils.
 
I realize. I'd still like to add the others even if we have to default to scaling them to CR 13
 
Okay. Also, when looking around I got another EE quote from the Aboleths . Apparently one Elder Evil is the abstract embodiment of the nothingness between the physical matter in the Material Plane.
 
Huh, guess its just D&D Yog-Sothoth. Reminds me of the the 1e 2-A Azathoth from the OG Deities and Demigods.
 
Nah, that's 3e. Although iirc Cthulhu was directly mentioned in both 4e and 5e (if you are a Warlock you could have it as your patron).
 
It was also mentioned in 3e as well, it's called the "Eldrich Pact" or something similar.

Also, the Aboleth stuff is really interesting.
 
From Lords of Madness if you want to read it. But yeah, its interesting. Aboleths are pretty cool in general, especially with the genetic memory stuff that allows them to know how stuff was during the primordial period of the multiverse.
 
Yeah, in your screenshot too it also said that "They are beyond eternity" which is pretty funny to think about.
 
EEs and Far Realm entities have some nifty statements at times.
 
What should we list the Far Realm Gods as?

Because as Embodiments of Concepts of the Far Realm, they should be 1-A, right?
 
Far Realm gods are weird. Theoretically, if they embody those concepts, it would be in the 1-C or 1-A range. But the upper level Far Realm beings are similar to the Cthulhu upper beings, in that they don't really care about the lower dimensional stuff and just sorta ignore it so there isn't a lot of information about them.

So if we were to make a profile on them, presumably it would be something like "At least 1-C, likely 1-A" in a similar situation to the Luminous Being profile.
 
And what about them being stated to be equal to the other Greater Gods?

Does this mean my 1-C to 1-A LoP fan fiction can finally come true? (Kek)
 
There's also that issue where they're stated as being equal to Gods. Far Realm Gods are just in this strange nebulous tier, like most other Far Realm entities.

Though there is a possibility that they have the strength of a Greater God but the Malefic Properties of Elder Evils, making them virtually undefeatable (in-universe).
 
With it, should the gots have a "Possibly far higher" added to their profiles due to them being equal to those Far Realm Gods?

Or should be add a possibly "XYZ" to the Greater Gods profiles

Or we could have the Far Realm God's tiers be "At least 2-A, likely 1-C, possibly 1-A"
 
If they rofl Greater Gods I don't think we scale. I'm cool with them being "At least 2-A, likely 1-C, possibly 1-A" if we gotta make it but the reasoning has to be fleshed out a little.
 
In that case, "At least 2-A, possibly higher"
 
For all of them, I suppose. This is the first actual possibility of far higher tiers for D&D guys- if one can prove Far Realms gods can manipulate that undimensioned space in the same way Greater Gods can manipulate ours, and provide statements of them being equal, that's uh...

that's a yikes
 
Funny thing is, I actually give this as a reason for the LoP being 1-A when that thead was still a thing.
 
I'm still a bit iffy on placing them at "At least 2-A" since it would be pretty far out there comparable to their typical stuff. DnD Gods are in a consistent Low 2-C to 2-A range rather than Tier 1.

There's also a possibility to consider that they're Rank 20 Gods rather than 16-19. Vecna and the Brahmin have feats far above most other Greater Gods despite being in that level due to being at the pinnacle of the power spectrum.
 
So Rank 20 gods only scale.

Works for me.
 
I think for fairness sake, we cannot assume it's talking about Rank 20 Gods, as the Divine ranking system of 3.0e was retconned shortly after and was never used again, most of all in 3.5e the quote about the Far Realm Gods is from 4e.

So we cannot assume it's using a retconned system because that would be applying headcannon.

I think adding a "possibly far higher" clause to the Greater Gods would be much better and would not assume something we canot prove and follows hitchen's razor, as we take less assumptions in saying it means all Greater Gods like it says in text rather tthat it using a retconned system and that it's talking about about 1 specific tier in that system.
 
I know the rank system isn't the best, but, there is evidence of certain Gods being far stronger than other gods in the same rank. As shown by the Brahmin and Vecna. There's also the possibility that the Far Realm gods don't represent Far Realm abstract concepts rather tham just general concepts warped by the Far Realm.

Its just that, without more evidence I don't think we should universally upgrade every Greater God to possibly far higher. Plus Far Realm gods are notably different from average, in both make up and how they act. Which may tie into their Malefic Propery stuff since they're Elder Evils.
 
Oh, of course, there is obviously a difference in power between some of the gods, however, we cannot say that it only applies to the top of the Greater Gods when that's not what it is stated.

I think the "Possibly far higher" is a safer alternative since we are following what the scan says without adding additional head cannon and we also keep the Far Realm Gods as they are without saying "Muh outlier" or "They too are 2-A, possibly far higher"
 
I think the Far Realm Gods can keep a possibly far higher rating, but they're also Elder Evils which means that I don't think we should compare them 1:1 with standard gods. I mean after all, a 6-B can take down a pantheon of Gods so imagine what a 2-A EE can do.
 
However, those 6-B are very specific foils to said 2-As, so I wouldn't say we should put the Far Realm Gods as 2-A, I think it would be best to put them as "At least 2-A, likely 1-C, possibly 1-A" or "1-C, possibly 1-A" and give the Greater Gods the "possibly far higher" part.

As this takes into account the Far Realm's power and how the Far Realm Gods are embodiments of it's concepts, and naturally a concept would hold as much if not greater power than the land it's governing.

And we also take into account that the Greater Gods could be much stronger than they currently are.
 
We need more clarification on the Far Realm before such an upgrade, I think.
 
However, those 6-B are very specific foils to said 2-As,

Its true. Those 6-Bs are Elder Evils who have Malefic Properties that counter divine magic. The issue here is that the Gods of the Far Realms are also called Elder Evils, meaning they likely possess a similar set of powers.

Now I don't mind a Far Realm God being in Tier 1 since they're treated as Cthulhu-esq abstract concepts, but I don't think we should scale normal Multiverse gods to them since I think it would create a contradicting scaling issue where we're placing them far higher than any feat or statement places them.

But for fairness I'll look more into the Far Realm dudes to see if I can find anything more.
 
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