• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Elden Ring Profiles

XSOULOFCINDERX said:
Hey, I just had an idea. How much Rock Debris does Astel lift up with his Gravity Circle grab move when he hits you? Maybe you could get another LS Calc out of that. Other than that, it looks pretty good so far.
Click to expand...
That could work yeah, though I'm pretty bad at calcs so someone else has to deal with that if we go that way
 
Hey, this thread moves quickly, Paul, did you post the outcome of the Discord chat or shall I?
 
Mr._Bambu said:
Hey, this thread moves quickly, Paul, did you post the outcome of the Discord chat or shall I?
Click to expand...
What was the result, you disagreeing with the 5-C still?

Specifically because you think it could have happened while they were already underground, or that lost doesn't mean destroyed
 
Last edited:
Paul_Frank said:
What was the result, you disagreeing with the 5-C still?

Specifically because you think it could have happened while they were already underground, or that lost doesn't mean destroyed
Click to expand...
Moreso the points made, but yeah, that is the plot synopsis. I still find the justification for 5-C immeasurably weak, as Astel's lore never even mentions the moon, nor is the moon ever stated to be destroyed, nor is it even guaranteed a literal moon.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
Moreso the points made, but yeah, that is the plot synopsis. I still find the justification for 5-C immeasurably weak, as Astel's lore never even mentions the moon, nor is the moon ever stated to be destroyed, nor is it even guaranteed a literal moon.
Click to expand...
It seems like most of the others here felt it was strong enough earlier, hence it being agreed to be used, there's not one way to prove whether it's right or not besides what the most people here agree with, since it's just a matter of different interpretations of the same facts

Either you think that things point to it being more likely it was above ground at the time, and that context shows lost=destroyed, or you don't since you think it could mean something else, and/or that it was already underground and you think 5-C is bad

If more people switch to disagreeing then I guess we'd have to pick something else, but otherwise I don't think it changes much.
 
Something to note here. The Eternal Cities like Nokron and Nokstella were put underground as punishment by the Golden Order for trying to defy the GW by creating their own Lord (with the Mimir Tear ash) and creating the Fingerslayer Blade. Astel landing after the cities were casted underground makes no sense for the simple reason there's no opening to the cities before we beat Radahn and judging by what we know, namely that Astel ravaged the city and stole its sky, it's clear it was already fully matured. There's NO way something of such size wouldn't leave a gigantic opening in the land if it really landed so brutally it would have opened a direct path to an underground location burried deep enough for the ceilling to be basically like a real sky. So no, Nokstella's moon wasn't underground when Astel destroyed it.
 
Paul_Frank said:
It seems like most of the others here felt it was strong enough earlier, hence it being agreed to be used, there's not one way to prove whether it's right or not besides what the most people here agree with, since it's just a matter of different interpretations of the same facts

Either you think that things point to it being more likely it was above ground at the time, and that context shows lost=destroyed, or you don't since you think it could mean something else, and/or that it was already underground and you think 5-C is bad

If more people switch to disagreeing then I guess we'd have to pick something else, but otherwise I don't think it changes much.
Click to expand...
You do refer to this consensus often enough, but frankly, I'd like to see the staff votes. Again, the 5-C stuff has quite literally no evidence. No mention of a moon being destroyed, no statement of Astel having anything to do with the moon. You need to make two substantial leaps to even make it plausible. These are facts.

I s'pose I'll ask some staff members to look through the relevant talking points, rather than referring to this obscure, ominous collective voice you speak for.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
You do refer to this consensus often enough, but frankly, I'd like to see the staff votes. Again, the 5-C stuff has quite literally no evidence. No mention of a moon being destroyed, no statement of Astel having anything to do with the moon. You need to make two substantial leaps to even make it plausible. These are facts.

I s'pose I'll ask some staff members to look through the relevant talking points, rather than referring to this obscure, ominous collective voice you speak for.
Click to expand...
Honestly Bambu, this feels like a case of you just missing everything that has been discussed, from item descriptions to the lore itself. It feels a bit wrong, is that the word?, for you to just call everyone who's put their opinion in after reading the item descriptions that were posted obscure and ominous.

Either it's because there are too many messages to read through, which is the most likely case, or ignorance, which is very unlikely.
 
My man, I asked Paul to bring me every piece of evidence for 5-C on Discord, as I was invited to the "work group".

I looked through all of it, in fact before it was shown to me properly, I even agreed it seemed likely 5-C would work, were the evidence not found wanting. Except it was.

I understand this may be difficult to appreciate, as it occurred off-wiki due to the desire of Ovens to host it so, but I do ask you do not reduce my opinion to one of lack of knowledge. I, unfortunately, have done my homework. You're right in that I'm not glued to the thread, but I do know my shit, from time to time. I, for example, know that the staff consensus is far from concrete, and have gone through this thread all the way back to Page 5 to ensure this was the case.

I'll be presenting all relevant evidence to other staff members (along with Ovens, who should be able to represent your interpretations should I miss anything in my synopsis). Then, and only then, will you have your consensus.
 
Intelligence: Gifted. Displays enormous mastery over gravity powers despite not showing emotions.
Click to expand...
What? No, gravity magic is just part of the Starbeasts. Even the terrible small one stuck in a cave can use gravity magic. Its just part of their nature. Its like giving the worm people gifted because they can cast death spells or giving Kindred of Rot gifted because they can cast spine magic or whatever. Astel is a rampaging death machine not a intelligent wizard like Sellen or something.
Mr._Bambu said:
You do refer to this consensus often enough, but frankly, I'd like to see the staff votes.
Click to expand...
That's fine in my view. Ironing the stuff out now is better than some tacked on CRT like a week after.
 
Chariot190 said:
Yeah well, I bet their server doesn't have memes and emojis
Click to expand...
Memes, yes, though limited. Armor has been a godsend in that department. Emojis, seems like a total of eight. Disappointment is the substance of life.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
What? No, gravity magic is just part of the Starbeasts. Even the terrible small one stuck in a cave can use gravity magic. Its just part of their nature. Its like giving the worm people gifted because they can cast death spells or giving Kindred of Rot gifted because they can cast spine magic or whatever. Astel is a rampaging death machine not a intelligent wizard like Sellen or something.
Click to expand...
As I said above, I was putting it in this category because while it is a rampaging death machine, it exhibits advanced use of gravity powers, much more elaborated than what the other beasts or even an Alabaster Lord display with their own power, though I'm fine with making him animalistic
 
Mr._Bambu said:
My man, I asked Paul to bring me every piece of evidence for 5-C on Discord, as I was invited to the "work group".

I looked through all of it, in fact before it was shown to me properly, I even agreed it seemed likely 5-C would work, were the evidence not found wanting. Except it was.

I understand this may be difficult to appreciate, as it occurred off-wiki due to the desire of Ovens to host it so, but I do ask you do not reduce my opinion to one of lack of knowledge. I, unfortunately, have done my homework. You're right in that I'm not glued to the thread, but I do know my shit, from time to time. I, for example, know that the staff consensus is far from concrete, and have gone through this thread all the way back to Page 5 to ensure this was the case.

I'll be presenting all relevant evidence to other staff members (along with Ovens, who should be able to represent your interpretations should I miss anything in my synopsis). Then, and only then, will you have your consensus.
Click to expand...
Feels like I should have worded my message better. It was more so about the choice of words when referring to what you call "the voice", which makes it feel like it isnt important
 
Mr._Bambu said:
You do refer to this consensus often enough, but frankly, I'd like to see the staff votes. Again, the 5-C stuff has quite literally no evidence. No mention of a moon being destroyed, no statement of Astel having anything to do with the moon. You need to make two substantial leaps to even make it plausible. These are facts.

I s'pose I'll ask some staff members to look through the relevant talking points, rather than referring to this obscure, ominous collective voice you speak for.
Click to expand...
I mean if you wanted to see the votes you could scroll up and see the people commenting who agreed with it, along with Qaw who proposed it, Emirp who agreed, etc
 
AnAverageUsername said:
Feels like I should have worded my message better. It was more so about the choice of words when referring to what you call "the voice", which makes it feel like it isnt important
Click to expand...
I don't particularly understand why you opened with "you probably don't know what we're even arguing about", but alright.

I do think it's obscure. At least, in terms of staff consensus, it is. As a part of my gathering of a legitimate staff consensus, I have added 7 members of the staff aside from myself, all but one who have contributed to these threads (that one being Wok, who has worked on Souls in the past and generally has an extremely level head). And yet I have been told, repeatedly, that in my absence a total consensus has been made, nothing we can do, from a small handful of staff members. Now, I generally consider Qawsed to be one of the best admins on the site, but clearly I disagree severely with the generous interpretations he is giving out here- so I will get a genuine consensus.

I called Paul the voice of this consensus because it seems the resurgence to push for Super Duper High Tier stuff started with him, a few pages back, and I was more or less discussing with him specifically, here and on Discord. I don't know why you felt I didn't consider this important- I absolutely do, most of my work on the wiki of late has been to try to steer this thread in what I feel is a good direction. That direction seems to be at odds with many of you, as I've even heard talk of another Low 1-C Immeasurable Speed Placidusax, which is for obvious reasons not really aligning with my interpretation of the game. So yes, I would say it is important.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
Memes, yes, though limited. Armor has been a godsend in that department. Emojis, seems like a total of eight. Disappointment is the substance of life.
Click to expand...
I can't believe that Armor has been dipping into another Elden server and posting memes.
I'll never recover from this...
 
Mr._Bambu said:
I don't particularly understand why you opened with "you probably don't know what we're even arguing about", but alright.
Click to expand...
I get sidetracked when trying to type.
Mr._Bambu said:
I do think it's obscure. At least, in terms of staff consensus, it is. As a part of my gathering of a legitimate staff consensus, I have added 7 members of the staff aside from myself, all but one who have contributed to these threads (that one being Wok, who has worked on Souls in the past and generally has an extremely level head). And yet I have been told, repeatedly, that in my absence a total consensus has been made, nothing we can do, from a small handful of staff members. Now, I generally consider Qawsed to be one of the best admins on the site, but clearly I disagree severely with the generous interpretations he is giving out here- so I will get a genuine consensus.

I called Paul the voice of this consensus because it seems the resurgence to push for Super Duper High Tier stuff started with him, a few pages back, and I was more or less discussing with him specifically, here and on Discord. I don't know why you felt I didn't consider this important- I absolutely do, most of my work on the wiki of late has been to try to steer this thread in what I feel is a good direction. That direction seems to be at odds with many of you, as I've even heard talk of another Low 1-C Immeasurable Speed Placidusax, which is for obvious reasons not really aligning with my interpretation of the game. So yes, I would say it is important.
Click to expand...
 
Qawsedf234 said:
What? No, gravity magic is just part of the Starbeasts. Even the terrible small one stuck in a cave can use gravity magic. Its just part of their nature. Its like giving the worm people gifted because they can cast death spells or giving Kindred of Rot gifted because they can cast spine magic or whatever. Astel is a rampaging death machine not a intelligent wizard like Sellen or something
Click to expand...
That's what I thought too yeah. I figured he was just kinda a monster int wise but he's just evolved far enough his gravity stuff is better.
Qawsedf234 said:
That's fine in my view. Ironing the stuff out now is better than some tacked on CRT like a week after.
Click to expand...
The issue imo comes in when stuff can't really be ironed out, because it's entirely just interpretation A vs B using the exact same quotes, it goes down to amount of people who agree vs disagree, and how exactly do you iron that out?

If you have a decent number who agree, how many people do you call? Do you call people until you get more disagreeing, or do you decide to keep getting votes for the agreeing side, at what point does it become enough if the current amount isn't?

Like I don't really care about the 5-C, but if there's a decent group agreeing to something and then one or maybe two who disagree based on a different interpretation, I'm not really sure about trying to pause progress even more for it, that's my view.

Mr._Bambu said:
As I've even heard talk of another Low 1-C Immeasurable Speed Placidusax, which is for obvious reasons not really aligning with my interpretation of the game. So yes, I would say it is important.
Click to expand...
Tbf that's entirely on discord from what I've seen, and primarily a meme argument, I think
 
Mr._Bambu said:
I've even heard talk of another Low 1-C Immeasurable Speed Placidusax, which is for obvious reasons not really aligning with my interpretation of the game
Click to expand...
Mr._Bambu said:
Low 1-C Immeasurable Speed Placidusax
Click to expand...
925.jpg_large
 
Paul_Frank said:
The issue imo comes in when stuff can't really be ironed out, because it's entirely just interpretation A vs B using the exact same quotes, it goes down to amount of people who agree vs disagree, and how exactly do you iron that out?
Click to expand...
Well tbf I more or less sped ran the reason why I think Astel is 5-C. I made a more detailed response in the mod thread about this.

But the core of it, is that the Nox were at one point above ground and made anti-Greater Will items. The Greater Will sent Astel Down with the Elden Beast to ruin their civilization and used Radahn's loyalty to completely negate the influence of the Lord of Night.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Well tbf I more or less sped ran the reason why I think Astel is 5-C. I made a more detailed response in the mod thread about this.

But the core of it, is that the Nox were at one point above ground and made anti-Greater Will items. The Greater Will sent Astel Down with the Elden Beast to ruin their civilization and used Radahn's loyalty to completely negate the influence of the Lord of Night.
Click to expand...
agreed, and the moon of nokstella not metioned more likely has to with the fact the GW really likes to erase any opposition, or fellow outer gods from memory. an example would be erasing the fell god from memory.
 
Nokstella's moon is either a artifact of an Outer God or something heavily influenced by the Lord of Night. A lot of Radahn's goal of controlling the stars and the Nox's origin imply that there was more to it than just being a moon.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Nokstella's moon is either a artifact of an Outer God or something heavily influenced by the Lord of Night. A lot of Radahn's goal of controlling the stars and the Nox's origin imply that there was more to it than just being a moon.
Click to expand...
yep, i think that more to it than being a moon was considered enough of a threat by the GW, that they sent Astel to destroy it, and also use it's servants to erase any memory of the event happening in the first place.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Blackcurrant91
  • Locked
Low 2-C Elden Ring (Not really though)
Replies
27
Views
2K
GrathOfLux
GrathOfLux
Frieren and her parties wind up in The Lands Between. Can they survive/thrive in the world of Elden Ring, and what, if any, can they change?
Replies
2
Views
417
Flashlight237
Flashlight237
Elden Ring Light speed upgrade
Replies
2
Views
1K
Qawsedf234
Qawsedf234
SilentLyfe
Another Minor Elden Ring Addition
Replies
15
Views
2K
SilentLyfe
SilentLyfe
Chritin
  • Locked
Elden Ring Top-Tier Speed Revision
Replies
27
Views
2K
Chritin
Chritin
Back
Top