Edgy girl with horns vs Edgy guy with hoodie

[DeathNoodles]

We've been arguing that this thread isn't considered a stomp before already.

I don't think it matters either way, as Promestein is going to arrive soon enough (and see what she thinks about this match).

 

[Mr. Bambu]

basically yeah

I just saw that argument for "its not a stomp lol" and wanted to point out that that's not how it works

 

[DeathNoodles]

What's your definition of a stomp then?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

What?

I was referring to the claim about voting on stomp threads. If a match is a stomp, votes really shouldn't be bothered with.

A stomp thread is one in which a character has no win-con they would realistically go for. If they are rendered unable to use that win-con by the opposing team, oh well (power null, being slower, etc) but if they aren't able to actually kill the opponent then that's a stomp.

 

[DeathNoodles]

A stomp thread is one in which a character has no win-con they would realistically go for. If they are rendered unable to use that win-con by the opposing team, oh well (power null, being slower, etc) but if they aren't able to actually kill the opponent then that's a stomp.

If that's the case, why is Lucy's match with Carnage still in her profile? After all, Lucy has no way to kill Carnage either, especially due to recent upgrades.

I didn't know that "killing" is the only method of victory, I thought incapacitating is also an option, among others.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

If it's a stomp then prolly coz nobody has bothered to remove it?

And it is, when the character can be relied on to actually go that path

Basically the character has to have an in-character method of winning that's actually possible. Lucy doesn't really do anything but kill. So I was speaking for her directly.

 

[DeathNoodles]

If it's a stomp then prolly coz nobody has bothered to remove it?

And it is, when the character can be relied on to actually go that path

Basically the character has to have an in-character method of winning that's actually possible. Lucy doesn't really do anything but kill. So I was speaking for her directly.

Hmm. Why does it have to be in-character though?

Also, do you know the exact AP needed to atomize a 7-C character? Or you don't know?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Because otherwise it isn't a win-con that's available to them

Like the possibility of them doing it straight up doesn't exist

And the AP to atomize a 7-C character is >>>that 7-C character since we can't actually calc that outside of calc stacking

 

[DeathNoodles]

Because otherwise it isn't a win-con that's available to them

Like the possibility of them doing it straight up doesn't exist

And the AP to atomize a 7-C character is >>>that 7-C character since we can't actually calc that outside of calc stacking

Okay.

But isn't sending someone flying to space through sheer AP also a thing in this site? Or does that need to show a on-screen feat as well?

I'm not sure if Lucy has actually atomized anyone in the canon through sheer AP though, so I'm not sure if we can apply the same logic here if that's the case.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

In fictions where it depicts it, yes. But if the series their in would never display it like that, then no, they wouldn't BFR someone by just flicking them.

Dunno. Like I said, I'm only really a supporter because the aesthetic for the verse is kick-ass. I don't watch anime.

 

[DeathNoodles]

Okay.


Just in case Lucy doesn't have any evidence of atomizing anyone through sheer AP in the canon (let's hope Promestein comes in and confirms on whether or not she actually does such), and have his thread officially declared to be a stomp:

What do you guys think of the Alex Mercer x Lucy romance ship? Why do you think that ship exist?

That pairing is apparently popular during its time back then, and I even saw a sizeable amount of fanarts about it. I don't know why it exists though, or what makes them compatible to each other as a couple.

 

[Migue79]

Okay.


Just in case Lucy doesn't have any evidence of atomizing anyone through sheer AP in the canon (let's hope Promestein comes in and confirms on whether or not she actually does such), and have his thread officially declared to be a stomp:

What do you guys think of the Alex Mercer x Lucy romance ship? Why do you think that ship exist?

That pairing is apparently popular during its time back then, and I even saw a sizeable amount of fanarts about it. I don't know why it exists though, or what makes them compatible to each other as a couple.

Both were monsters that were isolated by the world, are lonely, and generally just **** shit up. Pretty sure there are more reasons that I don't remember from the top of my head xD Keep in mind the ship consists of Lucy and Prototype 1 Alex. Remember Prototype 2 Alex is a villain.

Oh, and Lucy does: she atomizes Anna's arm while the latter was crushing the former and she set off her explosives IIRC.

 

[DeathNoodles]

That's good to know. I would like to hear more reasons about why that ship is a thing though, because I still don't get it.


Also, the atomization Lucy did to Anna's arm is a good start. What Tier was Lucy in when she atomized Anna's arm through sheer AP? What Tier was Anna in when Lucy did the atomization?

 

[Migue79]

The same atomizing explosion was the one that drilled that 2 km hole and kicked up the 30 meter tsunami (in other words, her 7C Key).

In case you're curious, I am right now trying to compute the energy she needed to kick up the tsunami. So, depending if my calculation is accepted or not, pre-melting Lucy might possibly be getting an upgrade.

 

[DeathNoodles]

Ah, okay. That's good to know. But what is Anna's tier/AP for when Lucy atomized her arm? (Comparable to Lucy in that key, but with the latter still having the AP needed to atomize her arm?)

 

[Migue79]

Also, that Carnage matchup was with inaccurate profiles: that was way before Precognition was removed from his profile and before Lucy got Radiation Manipulation. With the current new information, Lucy OHKOs Carnage due to being 74x stronger than him and Carnage not resisting Radiation Manipulation (and that fire's his weakness xD).

 

[Migue79]

Ah, okay. That's good to know. But what is Anna's tier/AP for when Lucy atomized her arm? (Comparable to Lucy in that key, but with the latter still having the AP needed to atomize her arm?)

THAT. I don't know unfortunately. I don't even think that's quantifiable due to Anna barely having any feats. But she did survive her explosion, so she should be comparable to some degree.

 

[DeathNoodles]

Nice.

Since Lucy's 7-C to 6-C key is being used, atomization through sheer AP should be a win condition for her (especially since it falls within her character to do so) as that key is when she pretty much goes nuclear on her enemies. Whether or not she can still pull that off before she gets infected by Mercer (especially due to her tendency to be sadistic to her enemies, or just killing them the conventional way through chopping their arms off and blowing their heads, as argued in this thread) is an entirely different thing though.


By the way, I still don't get the reasons why that ship exist. I mean, there can be other characters that fit those categories for the ship's existence as you've mentioned.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

just having higher AP doesn't cause atomization, you have to have actual matter manipulation to do that

 

[DeathNoodles]

just having higher AP doesn't cause atomization, you have to have actual matter manipulation to do that

But she did it to someone who can survive her explosion, which means that she able to do it to someone who is 7-C in that key. OvO

 

[Migue79]

I should worth mention that the Nuclear Explosion is the VERY FIRST THING Lucy does her 7C key and she also creates another explosion again when Kouta gets shot by Kurama. So I don't think it's too far-fetched to assume she would use it right off the bat against Alex. It definitely won't OHKO Alex like with Carnage, but it should do something significant to him considering Lucy's 12x stronger than him.

Also, Lucy is only sadistic to humans and when she defeats worthy opponents (a.k.a. Bando, Nana, Mariko, the Mariko Clones, Anna, etc.). She usually refrains from doing those things listed above against the previously mentioned enemies.

Is Alex's infection gas omnidirectional? Does it remain close to the ground? And considering Speeds are equalized, she can probably react to it. Hell, she'll probably think it's tear gas (considering that's the only harmful gas she knows or has been exposed to and she didn't have a great experience with it to put it lightly.)

 

[Migue79]

Also, them being shipped more has to do with their potential chemistry: they would understand each other and get along pretty well. I personally love the ship LMFAO

 

[Migue79]

I am right now trying to compute the energy she needed to kick up the tsunami. So, depending if my calculation is accepted or not, pre-melting Lucy might possibly be getting an upgrade.

Just a wee friendly reminder for yous.

 

[DeathNoodles]

And the first thing Prototype 2 Mercer (and probably end-game Mercer if we're including the Prototype comics to the infection scene which happens before the plot of the Prototype 2 game) is gassing anything he sees within his vicinity and infecting them due to his ambition to replace Humanity or some nonsense like that.

Without prior knowledge, she still wouldn't know that he isn't human until she sees him regenerating from her usual attacks. Even assuming she was able get the opportunity to see him regenerate (which is unlikely as Mercer infecting his targets is the first move he does even against ordinary humans), she would already be infected by then.

Yes, the gas is omnidirectional. It literally covered an entire district the moment it was unleashed, and it later infected an entire city as well. As for staying on the ground, I'm not 100% sure about that, but I am mostly certain it wouldn't be restricted close to the ground as it later led to an entire city being infected. I'm not sure she can even do anything against the viral gasses the moment it's unleashed, as they are capable of infecting both living beings and inanimate objects alike (Blacklight Virus is designed to be superior to the Redlight Virus, which can infect living beings, and inanimate objects such as entire buildings), so she wouldn't even need to inhale it to get infected (as inanimate objects obviously doesn't need to breathe, but they got infected anyways). The moment she's within its vicinity, she should be affected.

Even with speed equalised, they aren't slow gasses by any means, as they travelled quicker than what gasses should naturally be able to travel in the cutscene (I think. I'm pretty sure gasses don't travel that fast, from what I can recall).


Okay, I guess I can understand the ship a bit more now. But how would their potential chemistry make it that they would understand each other?

 

[Migue79]

If that's the first thing he does, then Lucy will immediately know he isn't human. Considering her universe has nothing of the such. She'll get an indication that the gas is harmful, though. Perhaps she might levitate away from it (her 7C key has a range of at least 2km), and 2km is much higher than a city. She has no physical answer to the gases. The only answer she has to that is levitate and stall. Whether she'll actually do it, I believe she can.

Maybe to make it more even out, increase the starting distance. Maybe that'll help.

Well, they never had someone who wasn't afraid of them or loathed them when they see their true colors. And they figuratively, like how Wanda can't figuratively hurt Vision when she destroyed his Mind Stone IIRC?

 

[Huesito88]

Also, that Carnage matchup was with inaccurate profiles: that was way before Precognition was removed from his profile and before Lucy got Radiation Manipulation. With the current new information, Lucy OHKOs Carnage due to being 74x stronger than him and Carnage not resisting Radiation Manipulation (and that fire's his weakness xD).

No Carnage is weak to fire in the sense that it does more damage to him, but it can't put him down.

 

[DeathNoodles]

But... How would she know the moment the gasses reaches her vicinity?

Like I've said, they aren't slow gasses by any means, and I recall speed equalisation excluding attack speed statistics from the equalisation equations. And since you've said that her universe has nothing similar to the gasses that Mercer did, I don't think she would immediately assume he is inhuman just from gasses appearing. She could likely assume he has some kind of hidden equipment or device that discharge such gasses for all she knows, and she could also assume that it's a smokescreen rather than tear gasses. Then again, I don't think gasses travel as fast as the ones Mercer unleashes, so I'll give you that. I'm not sure if her stalling does anything, but okay then.

I mean, unless the OP decides to change the starting distance now, we're basically stuck with the one the OP listed. And as Lucy actually has a win-condition that she does in-character (it requires her to go full nuclear straight away though, and would need the blast to directly encompass Mercer's entire body to atomize him), this match isn't quite a stomp, even if the odds are a bit stacked in Mercer's favour. Not like I can make it more fair though, because I'm not the one who made this thread.


I mean, there is Dana for Mercer... And there is Kouta for Lucy... Granted, I'm not sure if they absolutely don't fear Mercer and Lucy respectively though. Is similar experiences the only thing they have going for each other for the ship, rather than their personalities and philosophies compared to each other as well?

 

[Migue79]

No Carnage is weak to fire in the sense that it does more damage to him, but it can't put him down.

Oh, right. His Darkhold augmentations. He's still pretty susceptible to heat. But yeah, fire is too cold for that now. :v

 

[Migue79]

But... How would she know the moment the gasses reaches her vicinity?

Like I've said, they aren't slow gasses by any means, and I recall speed equalisation excluding attack speed statistics from the equalisation equations. And since you've said that her universe has nothing similar to the gasses that Mercer did, I don't think she would immediately assume he is inhuman just from gasses appearing. She could likely assume he has some kind of hidden equipment or device that discharge such gasses for all she knows, and she could also assume that it's a smokescreen rather than tear gasses. Then again, I don't think gasses travel as fast as the ones Mercer unleashes, so I'll give you that. I'm not sure if her stalling does anything, but okay then.

I mean, unless the OP decides to change the starting distance now, we're basically stuck with the one the OP listed. And as Lucy actually has a win-condition that she does in-character (it requires her to go full nuclear straight away though, and would need the blast to directly encompass Mercer's entire body to atomize him), this match isn't quite a stomp, even if the odds are a bit stacked in Mercer's favour. Not like I can make it more fair though, because I'm not the one who made this thread.


I mean, there is Dana for Mercer... And there is Kouta for Lucy... Granted, I'm not sure if they absolutely don't fear Mercer and Lucy respectively though. Is similar experiences the only thing they have going for each other for the ship, rather than their personalities and philosophies compared to each other as well?

We might have to hear on Promestein's input with the whole Speed Equalization and the whole Lucy responding to Alex's gas infection. But as of right now, I vote for Lucy for greater AP, Range and AoE (considering we're also using her 6-C key).

Also, they know that they're both seen as monsters and the whole protecting their loved ones. So, ideals I suppose. Kouta hates Kaede (Lucy's original personality) but loves Nyuu. Aren't Dana and Alex siblings??? Well, Alex is more cool and laid back, while Lucy would be caring (Nyuu's perfect evidence of that). But they share a lot in common, that's for sure.

 

[Huesito88]

"Oh, and Lucy does: she atomizes Anna's arm while the latter was crushing the former and she set off her explosives IIRC."

Where did this happen?

 

[Migue79]

"Oh, and Lucy does: she atomizes Anna's arm while the latter was crushing the former and she set off her explosives IIRC."

Where did this happen?

Chapter 89-90 in the underground grotto, I believe. Could be 1-2 chapters after or before.

 

[Huesito88]

Was it specifically stated all her atoms in her hand were destroyed?

 

[DeathNoodles]

I don't see how her stalling does anything. Also, does she even have an on-screen feat of levitating at that distance (2 kilometers or over)? Because I don't personally agree with her being able to levitate at that distance, regardless of her bad experiences with tear gasses, unless she has an on-screen feat of such, but okay then. I have more to argue for Mercer's side (especially in regards to Lucy's AoE and range that I haven't seen her use to distance herself), but I'll just wait for Promestein then.


Well, I can see why Kouta isn't compatible with Lucy, as he only cares about Nyuu (an innocent personality that is formed when Kaede got a head trauma) and not Kaede or Lucy, so I can see the ship between Mercer and Lucy exists. Yes, Mercer and Dana are "siblings" (Mercer is a virus that once thought he was a human, but he is actually not, and was just inhibiting the corpse of the original Alex Mercer that already died), but I was referring more to the people that care about them than just romance. Hmm. You have a point in similarly in ideals, so I can see why that ship exists (and is possible).

 

[Migue79]

Well, it's not stated. But there were no shown remains of her arm after Lucy set off her explosion (almost like it just disappeared from existence), and considering her arm was caught up in an explosion that caused an outbreak of neutrons, I don't think it's far-fetched to assume that her explosion atomized her arm.

 

[Huesito88]

Well, it's not stated. But there were no shown remains of her arm after Lucy set off her explosion (almost like it just disappeared from existence), and considering her arm was caught up in an explosion that caused an outbreak of neutrons, I don't think it's far-fetched to assume that her explosion atomized her arm.

Then the most you can assume is the destruction of molecules which is above vaporization, but below atomization.

 

[DeathNoodles]

Well, it's not stated. But there were no shown remains of her arm after Lucy set off her explosion (almost like it just disappeared from existence), and considering her arm was caught up in an explosion that caused an outbreak of neutrons, I don't think it's far-fetched to assume that her explosion atomized her arm.

But... That could be vapourization. Some types of gaseous matter (especially hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen) are basically invisible after all.

And if radiation is what causes the atomisation, I don't think it would affect Mercer that much as he is resistant to Radiation. If not, then what is "the outbreak of neutrons" that her blasts causes exactly?

 

[Migue79]

There's also the matter that they compared the type of energy emitted from the blast to be comparable to nuclear fusion. Not exactly that, but something akin to that. They drew that conclusion from looking at the report they received.

Also, remember that whenever she does this it takes a toll on her body due to the entropy of her body (increasing?).

 

[Huesito88]

Ok?

 

[DeathNoodles]

There's also the matter that they compared the type of energy emitted from the blast to be comparable to nuclear fusion. Not exactly that, but something akin to that. They drew that conclusion from looking at the report they received.

Also, remember that whenever she does this it takes a toll on her body due to the entropy of her body (increasing?).

Okay... But that is the "energy" of a nuclear fusion though (energy = AP in this context, not necessarily about atomizing her targets through her attacks). It could just mean her attacks are nukes in their own right (real life nukes can range from 7-C to potentially 7-A AP). While her destroying Anna's arm without a trace is impressive, I don't think that would put her destructive capability to be beyond vaporisation (such as atomisation). I still need to see more evidence about Lucy's atomisation through sheer AP.

Oh yeah, her melting weakness. How good is her stamina? How long can she last before she melts to death? How long can she even keep up before Mercer wears her down?

 

[Migue79]

Her 7-C key can last pretty long (arguably as long as her base and long horns, but DEFINITELY much longer than post-melting). She can extend them for 2 km without melting, unless you count coughing blood as melting).

Her stamina is stated as high in her profile, mainly due to her high pain tolerance and willpower.

Doesn't nuclear fusion split atoms? They do cause neutrons to be freed, which is smaller than an atom.