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DxD tiering CRT

@Burning Full Fingers *partially

Well from what I've seen in regards to anime adaptations that tends to be limited by certain amounts of episodes per season (especially 12) while compressing certain amount of volumes tend to have mess ups and changes. As for the Hero there are some differences but for the most part it's close to the source this time

Also, there's also the manga that adapted vol5 and the mountain busting feat is presented closer to how Issei busted it in LN vol5. Anyway, just presenting another point why we can't just use anime version since the adaptation materials portray the feats differently between adaptations as well

But yeah, better stick to the source
 
@Burning Full Fingers

Can you give a TLDR summary of the conclusions here?
 
Well, we're waiting for a calc to be evaluated. After that, we'll decide on the scaling and summarize it.

@Muffins

Actually, I think the manga is non-canon. It showed Kuroka doing some techniques not shown in the same scene in the LN, and I saw somewhere that it's already concluded. It also didn't show Ise's first major feat well at all (the one where he puts a hole in a mountain).

I'll still read it though. Lol.
 
I will unsubscribe to this thread now, since I have so many other things to do. After you have reached a conclusion, you can place a note on my message wall, if you need me to clear any changes.
 
Huh, that's underwhelming as hell. Well, the artificial dimensions are supposed to limit massive damage anyway.

Not like vaporization would change much, but it looks like vaporization...to an extent. I'm not sure.

@Fire

I can still see the novels. Check again.
 
@Burning Full Fingers yeah we know that given how it's manga is just an adaptation as well (though in terms of most events manga did try to be faithful to v5 this time compared to BorN given how it shows the gathering of the youth devils and vs Sona RG happens as opposed to removing it like the anime did). Yes we know that there are some differences but I was only refering to how the adaptations portray the feats differently (anime only have the statement on top of different method while manga have him blasting a mountain (albeit seems partially given the picture) by firing a magical bullet (this part is what I was referring to him blowing up the mountain to be "closer," I was referring to the method at least)) meaning that we can't just use adaptations. And for blowing a hole in the mountain, if you were referring to the v2 feat, in the manga it seems that he only blow up something between the 2 mountains in the manga so maybe that could be the artist's interpretation of "blowing a hole through the mountain" (Mishima Hiroji was the artist for the manga) compared to anime's interpretation.
 
@Muffins

Alright.

@Tenshin

Dunno if you can quantify that, but if incomplete Juggernaut Drive had been activated in the human world, the urban areas and its surroundings would have vanished.

Alright, so I guess the Dulio calc should be re-requested for evaluation. Though, I'm not sure how to go about it.
 
@Tenshin

Far sturdier then the real world, as the comparison, when Issei use Juggernaut Drive, the damage done to the surrounding is, I believe, destroying a massive shrine.

In comparison Odin said:

"They activated 'Juggernaut Drive' when they felt like it. Just think how many mountains and islands were blown away"

btw, Georg dimension should be sturdier compared to a normal artificial world because Georg has Sacred Gear that is specialize in this sort of stuff.
 
Though, Georg's dimension is based on the artificial game field dimensions by devils, iirc. But I remember that he can make it even sturdier, yeah.
 
yeah still tho. I'm not going to lie that sounds impressive but it's more of a flowery description than most at times. Cause not gonna lie, DxD's powerscaling to me is pretty out of order with many statements claiming this feat but nowhere to show evidence half the time honestly. I remember Kiba saying Vali was Speed of Light yet he took many minutes to get from europe to japan.

Like the two feats in HERO i requested were the best support. Xenovia got Small City from her crater and Issei inderwhelming blast equaled to Town+ (Might be higher if we applied vaporasation)
 
>it's more of a flowery description than most at times

You talking about Juggernaut Drive destroying mountains and islands? Nothing flowery about it. Boosted Issei put a big hole in a mountain and Volume 5 Ise in Balance Breaker completely destroyed one. There's nothing strange about people much stronger than him easily destroying mountains and islands. If I'm remembering correctly, initial CxC Ise was still regarded as the weakest Boosted Gear wielder in history.

Tannin casually shaved the top half of a mountain, Lavinia casually froze a mountain, Bandersnatch can destroy mountains, Serafall can casually destroy mountains, CxC Ise destroyed a mountain with the shockwave of his fist, Pseudo DxD Ise destroyed several mountains, valleys, rivers and trees and left a barren crater, etc. Yeah...no flowery language.

Obvious hyperbole is something like Azi Dahaka destroying Europe.

>I remember Kiba saying Vali was Speed of Light yet he took many minutes to get from europe to japa

Combat speed =/= travel speed, and speed of light Vali is another obvious hyperbole. It's like when authors say something moves at "lightning speed". Or should we downgrade Naruto God Tiers because they can't cross countries in less than three seconds flat?

>Like the two feats in HERO i requested were the best support

And those feats were performed in a dimension that severely limits damage, as has been explained. Xenovia also explicitly says she held back the power of the attack, and the calc is lowballed as we don't get a full shot of the crater. Also, Ise almost always holds back on the DC of his attacks because his allies are around or he makes them detonate in the air.

Secondly, that logic you want to use is applicable for so many other verses. Just because Zoro has a Mountain level feat with Daisen Sekai against Pica doesn't mean the feat will be even up to Town level in a later panel. Characters can't be expected to have exact similar feats all the time. That's just irrational.

As for the Serafall statement, I don't agree with using it but I've explained above why we can go with Dulio's. Sensible statements are accepted for other verses---- no need to do something different for DxD and accept none.
 
@Tenshin

Again that feat is performed while inside Georg dimension which, just as explained above, far sturdier than ordinary world.

Not like that feat means anything anyway because in the novel Issei bust the whole sturdier replica of Kyoto along with its scenery, I believe.
 
Hmm, another reason why I think we shouldn't use the statement for Serafall is that some of those in earlier volumes are contradicted and retconned by current events. Like Juggernaut Drive bringing out the full power of Ddraig and Albion, Fenrir being on par with Ddraig and Albion, etc.

Alright, I'll re-request the Dulio calc for evaluation and then I'll summarize some things assuming it's accepted.
 
tbh i feel like a lot of things were retconned in the earlier volumes. Cause when I was reading the manga of DxD they would draw the mountain destruction feat, but they never showed it honestly. Which kind of makes me think the feat was retconned along with a alot of things.

Wait the Dulio calc was blasted, man i thought that would be accepted
 
Only statements that are contradicted by current events are retconned. For example, God having infinite power equal to Ophis. I think Ishibumi hasn't decided on God's power yet. Definitely not feats, and the manga can't even retcon anything? It's with Yen Press and it's non-canon. It doesn't even portray things the way the anime does, and it's already concluded while the light novel is still ongoing. That's like saying manga retconned the Youth Devil meeting, which makes zero sense. Only Ishibumi can decide what to retcon.

As for the Dulio calc, it's no biggie. I think it's something to do with cloud density, and not the calc itself. It'd downgrade many others like Nagato's feat. Oh, well.

We'll go with the King piece as originally planned.
 
Lucis=the=Lumenian said:
iirc Serafall struggled against monsters created by Annihilation Maker, so some Longinus actually above (low) Maou-level?
Click to expand...
Well the true longinus is said to be able to kill the gods so yeah satan level is reachable. But not every longinus user is that level.
 
Nope, she froze the Bandersnatch along with a huge portion of the Underworld casually. The main Bandersnatch - not the other monsters they give birth to - are Ultimate-class. Jabberwocky should be around Satan-class though.
 
Neried Kyrie that can control seas and oceans and create tsunamis; that's Tier 6 for sure. I saw Tier 6 calcs for feats like that somewhere. Can't wait for the translation. :)
 
@Firephoe well, depending on how you define 'god-class beings'. I doubt any pure human (even with longinus) can beat god-class beings.

where does god-class start anyway?

@Burning Nereid sounds like its inferior (in potential) to Zenith Tempest.
 
God-class would start from the lower / weaker gods, I guess. Either that or strong Satan-class since Diehauser can beat the weaker gods. Maybe it starts from people like Loki. As for humans beating gods, I'm pretty sure current Cao Cao can beat the weaker gods, since he's a strong Satan-class character. Remember that in Volume 11, his Longinus had the strength to take half the power of gods.

Dunno about Neried Kyrie vs Zenith Tempest.
 
Lucis=the=Lumenian said:
@Firephoe well, depending on how you define 'god-class beings'. I doubt any pure human (even with longinus) can beat god-class beings.
where does god-class start anyway?
Click to expand...
Not rly. Cao Cao can easily reach God class beings. Remember when he pierced Ophis and said "i put enough power so that it would even take out God Class beings" or in the jabberwocky event the satans didn't get out to fight due to the risk of getting hit by the spear. While it may have not worked on someone vastly more powerful like Sirzechs or Ajuka, against the weaker satans like Serafall and Asmodeus it may have worked.

The longinus are the strongest sacred gears m8. Being a pure human means you have the weakness of a human that can be exploited not that the longinus itself is weak. Example: The power of destruction can be as weak as Rias in the fist volumes and as strong as Sirzechs, both are the same, Sirzechs can use it much better doe.
 
Yeah, humans can technically beat the stronger gods with their Longinus. For example, this guy in Ishibumi's first work - Denpachi - apparently has causality hax or something.
 
that so. I was too fixated with Vali's EJO. saying that only with his EJO that he can finally reach god-class in power.
so I'm under the impression that Normal Longinus Balance Breaker isn't enough to be god-class.

Burning Full Fingers said:
As for humans beating gods, I'm pretty sure current Cao Cao can beat the weaker gods, since he's a strong Satan-class character. Remember that in Volume 11, his Longinus had the strength to take half the power of gods.
Click to expand...
haha, it seems I set my standards too high. I was too fixated on the fact that Cao Cao is Sakra's errand boy.
but I'm forgetting that Sakra is supposed to be really up there in power. and now I will convince myself that its not weird that the Strongest Longinus cannot kill Sakra, even if in its 'first appearance' (Crucifixion) its supposed to be able to kill... fraction-of-Biblical-God(?) in one stab XD

uhhh, Biblical God is still third strongest (which means above Sakra), right?
 
Burning Full Fingers said:
True Longinus can technically kill Indra, but it doesn't seem like Cao Cao has mastered its true potential.
Click to expand...
imo, if even Cao Cao cannot use its full potential then no one can.
to get back into track... the calc that was proposed got denied, right? so, we pull out new calc?
 
Not really, but there's an issue with feats of that nature in general.

So, we're gonna use the boost from the King piece. People like Loki, Fenrir, etc will be High 6-C.
 
Lucis=the=Lumenian said:
Burning Full Fingers said:
True Longinus can technically kill Indra, but it doesn't seem like Cao Cao has mastered its true potential.
Click to expand...
imo, if even Cao Cao cannot use its full potential then no one can.
Click to expand...
Not true. Imagine a longinus like a sea of power, everyone is limited in the amount of power they can take from it, that doesn't mean that it's completely normal for anyone who seems proficient at using it to be able to take all of it's potential.

If cao cao had used ALL of the true longinus' powers than he would have 1 shot vali and ise no prob. Boosted Gear and Divine Dividing aren't even in the top tier longinus, while true longinus is number 1 (even though Ise has stuff like ophis' powers and Great red's powers, he cannot draw nearly enough from their power, the true longinus should be able to make up for the difference), all things considered, Cao Cao is only human.

Also if let's say Sirzechs fights Cao Cao while both are fully serious. It's not that the true longinus won't be able to dmg Sirzechs at all, it's just that Cao Cao will die before he even get's a chance to use the spear (same thing would apply if you said Cao Cao vs Indra, Shiva etc etc [insert top tier fighter]). The spear wouldn't lose to the opponent Cao Cao would.
 
@Burning that so. shame we won't get 6-A anytime soon but alright.

@Firephoe sea of power, huh. it sounds almost like how Sacred Treasures of nanatsu no taizai works. ST is like very large pipe that can channel your power to full potential.

but it seems the 'pipe' here is the human in question. True Longinus suffers bottleneck in the form of Cao Cao :lol:

Zenith Tempest is 2nd strongest, so it shouldn't be far behind to TL right? technically? plus Dulio is Maou-class even without Zenith Tempest iirc. so he should be able to draw much from ZT.

seeing a random tier list on this page. wow, Chief Gods are at 'bottom'? requirement to be top 10 is strict yo.
 
Alright, I'll start in some hours. If there are missing abilities, point them out so I'll add them. For example, Gods should have resurrection dependent on human faith as long as they don't suffer a complete death, as said by Azazel in Volume 21. Here are some I mentioned:

  • Devils should have Creation as they can create things out of thin air depending on their imagination
  • Ise should have resistance to Biological Manipulation since Azazel's gender swap ray gun didn't work on him. It seemed like it didn't work on Gasper twice, so he should get it too
  • Gasper and Azazel should have resistance to Memory Manipulation since they retained their memories after Azazel's ray gun messed up the memories of everyone involved
  • Gremory group should have resistance to Memory Manipulation as they could remember Raynare after she wiped the memories of everyone who knew about her...somehow including technology
  • Sona should probably have Astral Projection since she projected her spirit / soul in the form of a holographic image in her match with Rias. Dunno if experienced devils should get it, but they were not surprised by what she did
  • Crom and Azi Dahaka should have resistance to Size Manipulation and Spatial Manipulation for managing to resist Half Dimension. Fenrir managed to free himself from a spatial dislocation, so he should get it too
  • Additionally, Ddraig should get resistance to the effects of Half Dimension and Compression Divider since Albion has never defeated him and vice versa
That's what I can remember.
 
@Burning

Gods don't have resurrection, but type 8 immortality. Reliant immortality on belief.

About the memory manip/mind manip, it should apply to all devils. All humans forgot about Raynare though none of the devils actually forgot. And ise resisting memory manip is via traits of devils due to him being only a devil at that point, he didn't have any other side powers.

And i was also thinking of resistance to time stop to the following:

Holy Sword users.

Ise and Vali (maybe applicable to all longinus users)

The satan level + people.

since they all resisted Gaspers' time stop.
 
I thought Type 8 is when you can't die until at you're reliant on is affected? Because Gods can actually die before the belief thing kicks in.

Alright, that makes sense.

Holy sword wielders; yes. Ise and Vali already have it, but we shouldn't give Longinus users until there's proof for that.

As for Satan-class, it's because Gasper wasn't accustomed to his Sacred Gear. Azazel said if they tweaked it further, they'd also be stopped in time and Vali also took care of Gasper's sight because of that.

Also, good job in making a page for Ajuka. You can add the resistance to Memory Manipulation for him. But I just wanna say...don't touch Gasper and Tobio. I'm working on them. :)

I want to make for Lavinia and others too.
 
No, you are immortal as long as you have type 8. Meaning you cannot ever FULLY die. It's still possible for you to temporarily die. Example: Jill can die, she will stay dead untill the Basanos revives her. Type 8 is that someone cannot end you normally, because you can come back due to something else.


Oh so you saw about Ajuka. Meh wanted to make it a surprise. Anyway i think i did a pretty good job, and imma add the resistances now.
 
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