Dragonball Cosmology Revision: Part 3

[TheGodOfICE777]

It ends and we see that it does not go on infinitely. Super Shenron was getting bigger and bigger until he had fully formed between the edges of universe 6 and 7. Your argument against this earlier was "Well the universe isn’t a bubble with a singular galaxy inside of it" but that's just your opinion not fact. Super Shenron had been shown to dwarf galaxies before this scene and when he got bigger we were shown the complete outside view of universe 6 and 7. This is obviously not just a singular galaxy inside a bubble. But in the end it doesn't really matter what's depicted inside of the universe. What actually matters in this debate is that universe 6 and 7 were depicted to have ends in which Super Shenron fully formed between.

Secondary sources don't matter when it contradicts the main source. The main source points to the universe being finite. Also random translators from somewhere can't be used.

"Never said Whis had infinite speed"
Then why quote ”An infinite speed character's perception of time only flows when they allow it to flow.”

Whis took 2 days to get to Zenos palace. We have to talk about it because it completely disproves Infinite universes in dragon ball. A character can't travel across an infinite distance with pure speed if they don't have infinite speed. Whis and everyone else in DB don't have infinite speed feats and have glaring anti feats.

Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t that picture from Whis explaining the neutral dimension and not Super Shenron? I would like for you to send a video and is your other argument that it doesn’t look infinite?

Secondary sources can’t be used if it contradicts the main source but theres nothing contradictory

I quoted that because you said infinite speed characters arent effected by time even though it doesn’t have to do with our topic I just wanted to correct you on that

also taking time to reach an infinite distance isn’t a anti feat and it’s dimensional travel and I would like to ask you again to talk about scaling only if this thread gets accepted


Also is there any counters for the dbs manga and toeiverse having an infinite universe? those 2 continuities seem solid and dbs anime ofc is being discussed rn (Please leave scaling scaling for another thread)

What the hell with the infinite speed argument???, take sometime to reach a place isn't anti-feat for Infinite speed, fiction does it all the time, by that logic all infinite speed character should be downgrade because they take time to do something. Anyway we talking about infinite universe, infinite speed have nothing to do here

Also if you guys want to talk about Infinite speed, in the last episode Super Shenron literally flying and appear in all 11 universes at the same time, that infinite speed feat

Goku’s feat in ssjb kkx10 against hit

 

[Vietthai96]

Goku’s feat in ssjb kkx10 against hit

Mention this feat is a taboo on this site

 

[Omegabronic]

What the hell with the infinite speed argument???, take sometime to reach a place isn't anti-feat for Infinite speed, fiction does it all the time, by that logic all infinite speed character should be downgrade because they take time to do something. Anyway we talking about infinite universe, infinite speed have nothing to do here

for infinite speed, any and all travel in finite space takes no time at all

Also if you guys want to talk about Infinite speed, in the last episode Super Shenron literally flying and appear in all 11 universes at the same time, that infinite speed feat

cosmology thread, not scaling thread

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

for infinite speed, any and all travel in finite space takes no time at all


cosmology thread, not scaling thread

I agree we should stop talking about scaling in a cosmology thread

 

[DivineAura44]

What the hell with the infinite speed argument???, take sometime to reach a place isn't anti-feat for Infinite speed, fiction does it all the time, by that logic all infinite speed character should be downgrade because they take time to do something. Anyway we talking about infinite universe, infinite speed have nothing to do here

Also if you guys want to talk about Infinite speed, in the last episode Super Shenron literally flying and appear in all 11 universes at the same time, that infinite speed feat

Does anyone actually scale to that?

Mention this feat is a taboo on this site

Because we know it was Goku just having more ki. That much was stated in the manga. It's not speed, it's resistance to time manip through ki.

 

[SummerBlue]

What the hell with the infinite speed argument???, take sometime to reach a place isn't anti-feat for Infinite speed, fiction does it all the time, by that logic all infinite speed character should be downgrade because they take time to do something. Anyway we talking about infinite universe, infinite speed have nothing to do here

Also if you guys want to talk about Infinite speed, in the last episode Super Shenron literally flying and appear in all 11 universes at the same time, that infinite speed feat

You can look at past threads about this topic. Infinite universes in db inevitably lead to infinite speed threads.

 

[DivineAura44]

You can look at past threads about this topic. Infinite universes in db inevitably lead to infinite speed threads.

That should be obvious.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

I agree we should stop talking about scaling in a cosmology thread

Can anyone listen to this? Deal with scaling in another thread not this one this is purely cosmological

 

[CloverDragon03]

What the hell with the infinite speed argument???, take sometime to reach a place isn't anti-feat for Infinite speed, fiction does it all the time, by that logic all infinite speed character should be downgrade because they take time to do something. Anyway we talking about infinite universe, infinite speed have nothing to do here

Also if you guys want to talk about Infinite speed, in the last episode Super Shenron literally flying and appear in all 11 universes at the same time, that infinite speed feat

We're mentioning Infinite speed because you'd need Infinite speed to travel between two places that are spatio-temporally separated from one another, which would be the case for these universes if they were infinite in size

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

We're mentioning Infinite speed because you'd need Infinite speed to travel between two places that are spatio-temporally separated from one another, which would be the case for these universes if they were infinite in size

Isn’t that just dimensional travel?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Isn’t that just dimensional travel?

I think it's context-dependent

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

I think it's context-dependent

I see well that can be dealt with in another thread so let’s just evaluate the following infinite universe for the continuities of DBS manga DBS anime and Toeiverse

 

[SummerBlue]

Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t that picture from Whis explaining the neutral dimension and not Super Shenron? I would like for you to send a video and is your other argument that it doesn’t look infinite?

Secondary sources can’t be used if it contradicts the main source but theres nothing contradictory

I quoted that because you said infinite speed characters arent effected by time even though it doesn’t have to do with our topic I just wanted to correct you on that

also taking time to reach an infinite distance isn’t a anti feat and it’s dimensional travel and I would like to ask you again to talk about scaling only if this thread gets accepted


Also is there any counters for the dbs manga and toeiverse having an infinite universe? those 2 continuities seem solid and dbs anime ofc is being discussed rn (Please leave scaling scaling for another thread)

Goku’s feat in ssjb kkx10 against hit

The picture is when Super Shenron was summoned the first time. I don't know how to link video so im gonna ask you to search it up yourself. It's very early into his summoning. You'll see Bulma, Vegeta, and Goku overwhelmed with the light and then see it.

But looking back I might have been wrong in something. Super Shenron's energy was the thing that spread between the edges of universe 6 and 7 not his body. Doesn't change anything tho.

 

[Vietthai96]

for infinite speed, any and all travel in finite space takes no time at all

There is many way to get Infinite speed, your is just 1 of them. And they are irrelevant in this thread anyway

cosmology thread, not scaling thread

I mentioned the feat because people start talking about Infinite speed and SummerBlue said there is no infinite speed

Does anyone actually scale to that?

Idk, probably Grand Priest scale, but this isn't the problem of this thread

Because we know it was Goku just having more ki. That much was stated in the manga. It's not speed, it's resistance to time manip through ki

Manga is way too different from Anime, people should stop treating manga like a supplement evidences for Anime while it isn't the case

You can look at past threads about this topic. Infinite universes in db inevitably lead to infinite speed threads.

Infinite universe do lead to infinite speed, however infinite speed do not lead to infinite universe, so using infinite speed to disprove infinite universe is pointless

We're mentioning Infinite speed because you'd need Infinite speed to travel between two places that are spatio-temporally separated from one another, which would be the case for these universes if they were infinite in size

What, no, like what i said above infinite speed is result from infinite universe, however infinite speed can't prove universe being infinite so arguing about infinite speed is really pointless here, also you don't need infinite to travel from one infinite universe to another, travel hax like dimensional travel, portal creation can do the job. But anyway, speed isn't the problem here

I see well that can be dealt with in another thread so let’s just evaluate the following infinite universe for the continuities of DBS manga DBS anime and Toeiverse

Since currently we already separated Toei from Canon, Bulma statement or DBS's visual things isn't applicable to Toei continuity so pretty much infinite universe is solid for Toei. DBS is what need to be contested

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

There is many way to get Infinite speed, your is just 1 of them. And they are irrelevant in this thread anyway

I mentioned the feat because people start talking about Infinite speed and SummerBlue said there is no infinite speed

Idk, probably Grand Priest scale, but this isn't the problem of this thread


Manga is way too different from Anime, people should stop treating manga like a supplement evidences for Anime while it isn't the case

Infinite universe do lead to infinite speed, however infinite speed do not lead to infinite universe, so using infinite speed to disprove infinite universe is pointless

What, no, like what i said above infinite speed is result from infinite universe, however infinite speed can't prove universe being infinite so arguing about infinite speed is really pointless here, also you don't need infinite to travel from one infinite universe to another, travel hax like dimensional travel, portal creation can do the job. But anyway, speed isn't the problem here

Since currently we already separated Toei from Canon, Bulma statement or DBS's visual things isn't applicable to Toei continuity so pretty much infinite universe is solid for Toei. DBS is what need to be contested

Well so far we have 1 staff agree (Fire) and 1 staff disagree (Maverick) but I think toei is solid pretty sure that’s not controversial at all just the DBS anime I don’t really see that many arguments for DBS manga either unless there are not sure

 

[SummerBlue]

Well so far we have 1 staff agree (Fire) and 1 staff disagree (Maverick) but I think toei is solid pretty sure that’s not controversial at all just the DBS anime I don’t really see that many arguments for DBS manga either unless there are not sure

When did fire agree?

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

When did fire agree?

He put it in the blog in the part 2 of the cosmology revision and is the reason why all of this is happening because people disagreed with it and he also explains the illumination and darkness in his blog too but he uses the term “observable” and “non observable” https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Firestorm808/Dragon_Ball_-_Cosmology

 

[Vietthai96]

Well so far we have 1 staff agree (Fire) and 1 staff disagree (Maverick) but I think toei is solid pretty sure that’s not controversial at all just the DBS anime I don’t really see that many arguments for DBS manga either unless there are not sure

@Firestorm808 is currently collecting stuffs and making a proper blog, so until the blog is complete he isn't agree or disagree, he is neutral. Since we still could well continue to argues even after the blog is finish

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

@Firestorm808 is currently collecting stuffs and making a proper blog, so until the blog is complete he isn't agree or disagree, he is neutral. Since we still could well continue to argues even after the blog is finish

Im pretty sure he agreed but if he changed his stance then

 

[Vietthai96]

Im pretty sure he agreed but if he changed his stance then

He isn't though, since he was asked here to help making the blog, he still not yet to give his opinion on the matter

 

[Firestorm808]

Finally made time to update my blog from the Part 2 thread. Will update according to part 3

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Finally made time to update my blog from the Part 2 thread. Will update according to part 3

good admin

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Finally made time to update my blog from the Part 2 thread. Will update according to part 3

About the other world, oh my god do you agree that we can use the guide's statement to be bigger than the Universe, can this be put on the blog?

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

He isn't though, since he was asked here to help making the blog, he still not yet to give his opinion on the matter

Finally made time to update my blog from the Part 2 thread. Will update according to part 3

Are you neutral or do you agree I assumed you agreed

 

[Omegabronic]

There is many way to get Infinite speed, your is just 1 of them. And they are irrelevant in this thread anyway

the ways to get it doesn't change what i said tho

I mentioned the feat because people start talking about Infinite speed and SummerBlue said there is no infinite speed

ok, but let us stop now

 

[Omegabronic]

About the other world, oh my god do you agree that we can use the guide's statement to be bigger than the Universe, can this be put on the blog?

can we leave stuff from the other thread alone until said thread finishes?

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

can we leave stuff from the other thread alone until said thread finishes?

Yeah there’s no point of chatting on the other thread since this thread’s approval or being denied will indirectly effect it anyway

also if any staff agrees or disagrees it’d be helpful to name the continuities you’re ok with and not ok with having infinite universe

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Finally made time to update my blog from the Part 2 thread. Will update according to part 3

Some things your blog is missing

here in this scan describes that Goku can never return to the world of the living, because there is a dimensional barrier separating another world and the world of the living (which is described as sealed from the mortal world, which is actually confirmed by the databook and the manga)

Here confirms what I mentioned, where it is impossible to go to other planes without being dead or having teleportation or dimensional travel to access other realms, exactly here we have another proof that going to another world is impossible, except it has what i mentioned, interview with Akira toriyama speaking.

 

[Omegabronic]

Some things your blog is missing

here in this scan describes that Goku can never return to the world of the living, because there is a dimensional barrier separating another world and the world of the living (which is described as sealed from the mortal world, which is actually confirmed by the databook and the manga)

Here confirms what I mentioned, where it is impossible to go to other planes without being dead or having teleportation or dimensional travel to access other realms

that doesn't say anything about any dimensional barrier tho

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

that doesn't say anything about any dimensional barrier tho

“The endless, expansive space wrapped around every celestial body that exists in the Living World. Along with the “Demon Realm,” it is a single large world in the Living World. In the world of Dragon Ball, the world is located beneath the World Beyond, and it is hermetically sealed by a barrier that is engraved with a strange design.“

 

[Omegabronic]

“The endless, expansive space wrapped around every celestial body that exists in the Living World. Along with the “Demon Realm,” it is a single large world in the Living World. In the world of Dragon Ball, the world is located beneath the World Beyond, and it is hermetically sealed by a barrier that is engraved with a strange design.“

that doesn't say anything about any dimensional barrier tho

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

I mean there’s stated to be dimensional walls and walls between dimensions and etc. Dimensional Barrier still makes sense and it doesn’t really change the definition it’s a barrier separating 2 realms/dimensions

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I mean there’s stated to be dimensional walls and walls between dimensions and etc. Dimensional Barrier still makes sense and it doesn’t really change the definition it’s a barrier separating 2 realms/dimensions

Thanks for clarifying, my friend! Now I think it will be very easy for him to understand.

 

[Omegabronic]

I mean there’s stated to be dimensional walls and walls between dimensions and etc. Dimensional Barrier still makes sense and it doesn’t really change the definition it’s a barrier separating 2 realms/dimensions

if there is statements like that ok, but the one in question isn't one of them

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

if there is statements like that ok, but the one in question isn't one of them

It’s just stated that there’s a barrier between the dimensions of living universe and other world which is why the term “dimensional barrier” is being used if that eases your conscious

 

[Omegabronic]

It’s just stated that there’s a barrier between the dimensions of living universe and other world which is why the term “dimensional barrier” is being used if that eases your conscious

then it should be used as a supplement

 

[Nullflowerblush]

here in this scan describes that Goku can never return to the world of the living, because blah blah blah

Goku can "never return to the world of the living" because he is dead. Why do you think Elder Kai gave him his life? Did you think he gave him his life so that he could pass through the barrier?

It is possible to travel between the Kai's faraway planet and Earth through teleportation, as demonstrated by Kid Buu. There is not a barrier between the Realm of the Kai and the Living Universe.

Goku has teleported between Earth and King Kai's planet, which is in Other World, before.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Goku can "never return to the world of the living" because he is dead. Why do you think Elder Kai gave him his life? Did you think he gave him his life so that he could pass through the barrier?

It is possible to travel between the Kai's faraway planet and Earth through teleportation, as demonstrated by Kid Buu. There is not a barrier between the Realm of the Kai and the Living Universe.

Goku has teleported between Earth and King Kai's planet, which is in Other World, before.

I’m pretty sure there is a barrier as the only way to get to the Kaioshin realm is through teleportation
And same for the other world

 

[Nullflowerblush]

The only time a "barrier" is ever mentioned in the Daizenshuu in when describing the relationship between the Living Universe and the Other World, and even then, said "barrier" is only ever stated to exist. Its functions are unknown. The only "barriers" known to exist in the original series is the "dimensional barrier" separating the Living Universe and the Room of Spirit and Time, which exists in another temporal dimension.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Goku can "never return to the world of the living" because he is dead. Why do you think Elder Kai gave him his life? Did you think he gave him his life so that he could pass through the barrier?

It is possible to travel between the Kai's faraway planet and Earth through teleportation, as demonstrated by Kid Buu. There is not a barrier between the Realm of the Kai and the Living Universe.

Goku has teleported between Earth and King Kai's planet, which is in Other World, before.

Nullflower, I know that it is possible to go to the world of the living through teleportation, shown in my scan, Goku cannot return to the world of the living while he is dead, because there is technically a barrier separating him from entering the world of the living, it is said that souls cannot cross to other planes in the databook, even though he is dead and has the ability to teleport it is said that it is impossible for him to return again, and a barrier is also seen separating the other planes, it is necessary from the old witch for him to go to the worlds of the living (one time only)

"Do you think he gave him his life so he could get through the barrier?"

Simply, because there is a barrier that separates the planes, otherwise he would have already gone there, because he is dead he cannot teleport to the living world (I am afraid you will have to read the databook well, as he is in default of his duties from home), and Elder Kai gave his life so that he could go to the world with teleportation, because during the dead Goku could not go there because technically there was a barrier that separated the world of the living and the other world (preventing the dead from going to the mortal world and it serves the same for the world of the living ), that's all, Null, no need to be in denial.

"Goku has teleported between Earth and King Kai's planet, which is in the Other World, before"

Of course Null, teleportation is one of the only ways to get past this barrier, my friend.

What a pity, Null, but what a great pity, it's good that we have a statement explaining the same in the realm of the Kaioshins, where passing is impossible, except with teleportation



"Universe is located beneath the World Beyond, and is hermetically sealed by a barrier engraved with a strange design."

"Sealed", Mister Null! Prevented from coming and going through normal methods, only teleportation is possible.

more detailed explanation


The way we see it, as long as you're alive, traveling to and from the afterlife is perfectly permissible. Shunkan Idou does not have any kind of limitation of dimensional barriers, as long as Goku is able to feel a ki in that location to teleport (he could not go back and forth from the Room of Spirit and Time, as this dimension is sealed off when the door is closed).

Also, there is likely to be some simple logic to the idea of "How often will someone in the living world want to go to the afterlife?" For most people, it's probably not something that crosses their minds, and even if it does, it's not something most people could readily do.

However, when you are dead, you obviously cannot teleport to the world of the living without Enma's permission first, otherwise you likely risk having your body removed from you or being sent to Hell.