Dragon Talisman - Upgrade to High 1-A

[Livinaa]

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[Livinaa]

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[Livinaa]

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Here's the scan for Spiritual Network



Spiritual Network is a super Heavenly Dao, but for 10th Deathless and below. It's role is to help everyone reach the next Deathless realm.


The gold robed man reaching 11th Deathless, becoming transdual to Spiritual Network (10th Deathless) and Deathless realms below it.


The growth of Spiritual Network, from 10th Deathless into 1000th+ Deathless, since every hundred million years, the highest Deathless realm would be pushed to the next Deathless, while 100 billion years passed. Also shows a giant capable of tearing infinite existence (existence here would also include all the Deathless beings ranging from 10th to 1000th that are already born after the Spiritual Network grew into higher Deathless realm, since this giant was seemingly born after the Spiritual Network disappeared due to the Deathless realms being too vast for it), yet still unable to defeat Gu Chensha.

If Deathless Realm doesn't qualify for meta-meta.. then what about this? Maybe this is my final argument, if it's still not enough then there's no need to continue.
There is a concept called Heaven - it is eternally mysterious and eternally unfathomable, so Heaven cannot be divided into layers like the Deathless Realm or Non-immortality, both of which have layers to indicate hierarchies. If "Heaven" somehow had layers then it would be like a prison, representing change and unchangeability in the same way that Heavenly Dao (Do I need to repeat its properties?) is a prison and thus no longer has qualities such as eternal mystery and eternally unfathomable




Those characteristics will carry over to Heaven Beyond Heavens (天外天，天外有天, 天外之天). HBH is essentially the source of everything below, it is as incomprehensible, indescribable, inexplicable, inconceivable as earth beyond the Earth, nothingness beyond nothingness. Of course, outside HBH there will also be a higher HBH acting as its Heaven, this chain lasts forever. As said and implied in the quote below, the relationship between HBHs is not higher layers in the same hierarchy because it cannot be divided into layers. When there is an HBH it will automatically act as Heaven completely transcends the definition of those layers and is not counted as one










Baseline HBH starts from the 1-A void of Non-Immortality. As for the higher HBHs, I confused them under Annulled but as you said, they are much higher. Only by completely transcending the Multiverse (this world) and defeating Gu Chensha can one contact them (Another Worlds), the Deathless hierarchy itself is also an element of the world and defined by its logical framework (truth)



Tldr: An HBH will be a Higher logical framework that completely transcends the layers of the Heaven hierarchy below as their Heaven, each HBH will be divided into layers and operate as its own hierarchy. The entire Multiverse and Deathless Hierarchy are in the lowest HBH, the HBHs chain extends to infinity (永无止境) and all of them are a realm that Gu Chensha established since he created all the realms

Spoiler

"My strength has nothing to do with cultivation base. Cultivation base is cultivation base. Strength is strength. Perhaps the truth of this world is that the higher one's cultivation base is, the more powerful one is. However, that's not the case for me." Gu Chensha waved his hand. "Of course, you don't understand this logic right now. It's nothing. You'll understand sooner or later." - Chapter 1147

“我的实力和境界无关,境界是境界,实力是实力,也许现在这个世界上的真理,就是境界越高,实力越强,可对于我来说并不是如此。”古尘沙摆摆手:“当然,你们现在并不能够理解这个道理,这也没有什么,迟早你们会理解的。” - Chapter 1147

"You don't understand what realm is. Realm is just a symbol, a name that measures strength. All realms are decided by me. Non-Having-No-immortality, it's that I suggested it. It's not that I haven't mastered it, it's just that I don't need this realm to support myself anymore," Gu Chensha said. "This realm is like a child. When he was young, he wanted to obtain something, but he couldn't get it. But when he grew up, even if he brought this thing to me, he wouldn't like it, because he could buy many of these things at will. Of course, you can't understand this logic." - Chapter 1149
你根本不理解境界是什么,境界,不过就是一个符号,一个衡量实力高低的名字而已,而所有的境界,都是我来定的。非有无不朽的境界,也是我提出来的,我不是没有练成,而是我已经不需要这个境界来支撑自己了。”古尘沙道:“这个境界,就如一个小孩子,小的时候,很想获得某个玩意儿始终不可得,但长大之后,就算是把这个玩意儿送到面前,也不喜欢不心动了,因为随意就可以购买很多这样的玩意儿。当然,这个道理,你是不能够理解的。” - Chapter 1149

I don't know if this can help prove stacked transduality for Deathless hierarchy, but i will just add this.

8th Deathless has 4 truth states for having Heavenly Dao (both A and not A) and Gu Taxian (neither A nor not A) in it.



And yet, they both still can't reach 9th Deathless, implying that 9th Deathless exist beyond 4 truth states, that is, 5 truth states. Heavenly Dao (both A and not A) and Gu Taxian (neither A nor not A) had to unite together to reach 9th Deathless.

This is confirmed even more when Gu Chensha stated 9th Deathless don't have any opposites, including the opposite of Heavenly Dao (both A and not A) and Gu Taxian (neither A nor not A)

So from the above, 9th Deathless has 5 truth states. Now on to 10th Deathless, it's viewed by 9th Deathless as something that can't be imagined and described by them, implying that even 5 truth states can't describe them, meaning that 10th Deathless exist beyond 5 truth states, aka 6 truth states.


And since starting from 10th Deathless, lower Deathless view the upper Deathless as being unable to be imagined and described, 11th Deathless and up would have more truth states. Going up the Deathless hierarchy would add more truth states. Aka Deathless hierarchy = infinite truth states


Now this is my own assumption, so if it's wrong then just ignore this part.

-8th Deathless = 4 truth states = non 1-A (Quantitative)

-9th Deathless = 5 truth states = 1-A (Qualitative)

-10th Deathless = 6 truth states = High 1-A (Meta-qualitative)

-11th Deathless and up = 7-... truth states = High 1-A (Meta-meta-...-qualitative)

 

[Livinaa]

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[Thinnapat_butsiri]

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[Livinaa]

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[Abhisitlockky]

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[Ultima_Reality]

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Yeah, looking at all this. Sounds fine to me; in particular the second argument regarding the Heavens. I've already said before that additional true-values beyond the conventional 2 don't inherently have anything to do with tiering, so I'm very much indifferent to the third one, meanwhile.

 

[Rabbit2002]

Yeah, looking at all this. Sounds fine to me; in particular the second argument regarding the Heavens. I've already said before that additional true-values beyond the conventional 2 don't inherently have anything to do with tiering, so I'm very much indifferent to the third one, meanwhile.

So Deathless Hierarchy qualifies for an infinite stack of truth-values (transduality) but not for an infinite stack of higher qualities. Like Meta-Meta-Meta-Meta-Meta...(Infinitely)-Quality which only has Heavens hierarchy. Right?

Also is it possible for a character to surpass the above structure without being High 1-A+?

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Like Meta-Meta-Meta-Meta-Meta...(Infinitely)-Quality which only has Heavens hierarchy. Right?

Yeah, so it seems.

Also is it possible for a character to surpass the above structure without being High 1-A+?

Yeah.

 

[Livinaa]

Alright, so:

Deathless Hierarchy= Infinite layers into meta-quality and infinite stack of truth values.

Baseline HBH = Contains the multiverse and Deathless Hierarchy = Infinite layers into meta-quality

Second HBH = Meta-meta-quality and beyond infinite stack of truth values.

HBHs = Meta-meta...-quality aka infinite stacks of meta extensions

Gu Chensha = Beyond the framework of meta extensions

 

[Wesker018]

......

Ultima, last question.

So infinite layers into High 1-A is different than Meta-Meta-Meta- ...up to infinite above High 1-A? Or are they two ways of referring to the same thing? I want your confirmation, so I can take it into account in other threads.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Ultima, last question.

So infinite layers into High 1-A is different than Meta-Meta-Meta- ...up to infinite above High 1-A? Or are they two ways of referring to the same thing? I want your confirmation, so I can take it into account in other threads.

They're different things, yeah. High 1-A is stupidly broad and accounts not just for layers in a hierarchy, but also hierarchies of hierarchies, and hierarchies of hierarchies of hierarchies, etc.

 

[Livinaa]

Alright, so:

Deathless Hierarchy= Infinite layers into meta-quality and infinite stack of truth values.

Baseline HBH = Contains the multiverse and Deathless Hierarchy = Infinite layers into meta-quality

Second HBH = Meta-meta-quality and beyond infinite stack of truth values.

HBHs = Meta-meta...-quality aka infinite stacks of meta extensions

Gu Chensha = Beyond the framework of meta extensions

@Rabbit2002 Can you please add this and HBH scans into the OP?

 

[Wesker018]

They're different things, yeah. High 1-A is stupidly broad and accounts not just for layers in a hierarchy, but also hierarchies of hierarchies, and hierarchies of hierarchies of hierarchies, etc.

Thanks!
So each "Meta-" addition implies the addition of a new hierarchy

Another thing, not to extend the thread, but it is in relation to one of the feats and it would help me to better understand the tier system:
I understood with this thread that transcending the distinction between non-outer and outer (the duality between both) implies a hierarchical jump that is equivalent to high 1-A. Why is that?

 

[Livinaa]

Bump. This thread need 2 more staff approvals

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

If Ultima has no issues with it then this seems fine to me.

 

[Livinaa]

For the infinite stack of truth values/transduality, would it be included in this CRT or should it be separated in a different thread?

Also for NEP, Heavenly Dao should be Type 3 since it's both A (existence) and not A (non-existence), while Gu Taxian should be Type 2 since he's neither A (existence) nor not A (non-existence).

For 9th Deathless and up, since there's infinite stack of truth values, would they have deeper layers of NEP type 2? 9th Deathless is much more "nonexistent" than Gu Taxian, let alone 10th Deathless and up.

 

[Theglassman12]

If this is fine by Ultima's standards, I guess it's fine.

 

[Livinaa]

Alright, 3 staffs approved this CRT. When will the changes be applied?

 

[Rabbit2002]

Alright, 3 staffs approved this CRT. When will the changes be applied?

Two/three days at the most. We (me and @Muchacho_mrm) need to copy and paste the accepted important parts into a blog so it can be linked by profiles.