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Dragon ball Z speed revision

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Yes, i agree again with Kep. I was writing fast, so i did recalled that Cooler Revenge takes place during the three year gap and that New Namek does indeed exist, so Goku likely defeated Frieza with SS, he just did not used IT and used SS later. Piccolo in Cooler Revenge is stronger than when he fought Frieza since he constantly trains during periods and Cooler casually blasted through him. Overall, i have no problem with Post Zenkai Goku and Cooler being 4-B and the calc should apply from everyone starting with possibly Base Broly, Meta-Cooler and the Androids, not as lower for Final Cooler and Meta-Cooler Core, which are stronger than 100% Frieza.
 
Tarble will be mentioned in the Broly movie by Vegeta, but he is a completely different char. like Lightin mentioned.
 
Vegeta has a flashback with Nappa in the new movie where Nappa asks about Tarble and Vegeta says he doesn't know where he is, so he might be recanonized.

Although, going by how Broly's character has been reshaped, Tarble's character as a frail Saiyan may be as well.
 
It's accepted. However, we need to decide who scales and who doesn't.

Base Goku has gotten a whole lot stronger over the ages, so it's clear that it isn't as simple as saying everyone above Freeza scales.
 
Kepekley23 said:
Vegeta has a flashback with Nappa in the new movie where Nappa asks about Tarble and Vegeta says he doesn't know where he is, so he might be recanonized.
Although, going by how Broly's character has been reshaped, Tarble's character as a frail Saiyan may be as well.
Click to expand...
Or you know they could do a movie retelling arc when Super comes back to fix the plotholes? Not so unlikely since i'd imagine they'd like to have Toyo's manga as an outline in the future and keep his manga ahead of the anime
 
Everyone starting from the Ghosts Warriors to GT def. scales, we just need to value if Base Broly, Meta-Cooler, Android 14, Android 15, Android 13/Super Android 13 should scale. These not scale since are lower such as 100% Frieza, Kuriza, Avokado, Final Cooler and Cooler's Core.
 
Also, everyone above Super Perfect Cell should be 5 quadrillion times FTL via low end scaling.

Goku had access to a short burst Super Kaioken which logically should have doubled his speed and strength, but would have still put him below Cell since the latter was on par with SSj2 Kid Gohan.
 
Isn't the Cell that Pikkon easily defeated and the one in GT Super Perfect rather than just Post Zenkai Perfect?, the animators likely forgot to draw his aura since these are all fillers.
 
It's not that they forgot to draw his aura, it's just that there's no need for it when he's already at full power. Cell did a power up right before teleporting back to Earth and killing Trunks, hence why he's shown with an increasing aura.

And Pikkon clearly defeated a Super Perfect Cell. Zenkais are permanent.
 
The Goku that travelled with Pikkon was right after he died to Cell, i think his Base should be the same or slightly stronger than he was at the Cell Games, i don't remember if he trained before entering the tournament and harming Pikkon with SS + KK, so i will check.
 
I never denied he's the same power as he was in the Cell Saga, though.

He didn't train, no. He just warmed up by lifting weights.
 
I checked, i feel at this point it should only scale to the 4-A's and possibly Super Android 13, what do you think?.
 
Should probably scale to Android 17 and above, considering Goten and Trunks are not that much weaker than Teen\Adult Gohan (as evidenced by the fact that Goten forced Gohan to fly away in their spar, the Daizenshuu stating that Goten rivals Gohan, and Gohan getting scared after Goten says Trunks and him "play" fight on that level) and they both fought on par with Android 18 even while being hampered by the Mighty Mask suit.
 
Kepekley23 said:
Should probably scale to Android 17 and above, considering Goten and Trunks are not that much weaker than Teen\Adult Gohan (as evidenced by the fact that Goten forced Gohan to fly away in their spar, the Daizenshuu stating that Goten rivals Gohan, and Gohan getting scared after Goten says Trunks and him "play" fight on that level) and they both fought on par with Android 18 even while being hampered by the Mighty Mask suit.
Click to expand...
Nevermind, I got it mixed up with the manga. In the anime the kids are weaker, as evidenced by the filler scene where they attack 18 as Super Saiyans and don't even land a hit.

Still...Super Android 13 sounds like a compromise.
 
So, do you still have to discuss this issue, or should the pages be updated now?
 
Meta Cooler also was stronger than Vegeta and Goku individualy, would have easily killed them one on one, and did well against both at the same time, and got stronger after fixing. I think as he is well above Android arc versions of them, he is likely at around 18 or 17 level in power. Oh also Dende is god in the movie, so Piccolo already fused with Kami, and Cooler stomps him till Goku and Vegeta blow up the big gete star. So yeah, possibly above 17 actualy for Meta Cooler, so i recomend including him in the list, although anybody lower like nomral Cooler I can see Goku's base possibly being strogner by Cell games, so I agree you can't just assume lower than that without being to leiniant, but Meta Cooler should scale since he is at or above 17 level.

but Mecha Cooler > 17 = Kamicolo > SSJ Vegeta (Android arc).
 
Ok, because I thought this thread would be "frozen", so I asked about the speed, since Toei Goku's AP got already upgraded!
 
The calc is correct so it can be applied.
 
Has the blog been accepted by the calc group?
 
Kepekley23 said:
It's accepted. However, we need to decide who scales and who doesn't.
Click to expand...
The end result is correct, but maybe it's best if Kep or some other calc group member comments on the blog, accepting it.
 
I can help with applying the changes once it's accepted.
 
I think that we are just waiting for the changes to be applied.
 
Dark649 said:
Ok, but Meta-Cooler started to overwhelm Goku and Vegeta only after reparing himself.
Click to expand...
I know a single cooler does overpower Kamicollo, and is overwhelming Goku and Vegeta even while they tag team him for the majority of the fight. Considering both those things he's definably 17 level or higher as a single unit by the time he fights in those battles. Even Trunks Post Cell games requires SSJ to beat a weaker 17 and 18 and imperfect Cell, and in the Bojack movie he needs it to break the stalemate with Tien in the tourney even, so I think it's clear their base forms are insufficient to defeat characters who are at the level of Android 17 and 18 even after Cell games.
 
Base Goku by Movie 6 has definitely considerably surpassed Freeza, considering Cooler told Goku he had powered up since their last battle and Goku confidently fought him in base for a while.
 
It looks like it is since Kepekley accepted it.

Also, according to Toei verse's portrayal, I heard Goku has got so much stronger than even his base form surpassed Super Perfect Cell in Buu saga. Casual Pikkon one shotted both Frieza and Cell but even considered base Goku somewhat decent; though going all out required Goku to go Super Saiyan Kaioken; meaning serious Pikkon is obviously wayyyy higher than Base Goku and likely stronger than SS2.
 
Yes, Movie 6 Goku surpassed Frieza and by the time of Fusion Reborn he is seen fighting with no problems with Pikkon, who can oneshot Super Perfect Cell without effort. By GT, SP Cell is just seen as a fodder to Goku, Vegeta, Uub and Piccolo.
 
The full scene can be found here at 04:50. There is also SS Goku and Vegeta feat at the end of Cooler's Return, which was them overloading the Big Gete Star with their power. Since Frieza lower forms should not be that far far behind his Final Form, High 4-C is legit for them.
 
High 4-C feels a bit low - that's the level a held back 1st Form Freeza is in. 4-B is more like it for the vastly, vastly more powerful True Form.

Although, this new feat should probably get a calc. Inverse square law can't be applied due to the fact no other celestial bodies were shown getting destroyed, so all we have is the blast's diameter.

This feat could be either an outlier 4-A feat that helps solidify Broly's feat, or a 4-B feat that solidifies the current rating of those who are 4-B via raw scaling.
 
While cleaning the profile, i forgot to add Immortality Type 1 and 3 alongside the reality warping range upgrade for Janemba, you can add it Kep.
 
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