Dragon ball Z speed revision

[Firestorm808]

I have a speed feat for Goku's Kamehameha before Namek.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Firestorm808/Goku's_Kamehameha_(Anime)

FTL

 

[AguilaR101]

It's actually MFTL given that it cancelled the momentum of his ship.

 

[Antvasima]

How are things progressing with the speed upgrade?

 

[AKM sama]

I am taking care of all the unlocked profiles for now.

Just to be sure, this applies to all 4-A and above + Super Android 13?

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. You can tell me here if you need any pages unlocked.

 

[AKM sama]

Son Goku (Toei)

Gogeta (Toei)

Broly (Toei)

Son Goku (Dragon Ball GT)

Vegeta (Dragon Ball GT)

Super 17

Syn Shenro

These pages need to be unlocked.

 

[Dark649]

I unlocked them.

 

[AKM sama]

Thanks. I am done. You can lock them again.

 

[Dark649]

Ok.

 

[SSJRyu1]

To be fair I think saying Cell is below base Goku is inaccurate for a few reasons.

1. Goku considers Cell an extreme threat still, and is worried to fight him, and even after Goku powers up to a psuedo SSJ Cell is confident he can kill him easily still.

2. Pikkon catches Cell of guard with a powered up attack, and in actuality is about equal to SSJ Kaioken Goku at peak, so assuming Cell was beat by base Goku level would be a pretty big assumption.

3. Even in Bojack movie Trunks needs SSJ to decisevly beat Tien, who is below the androids and Cell at the time.

4. In fact Trunks still needs SSJ to defeat Cell imperfect, and 17 and 18 in his timeline who are below proper timeline 17 and 18.

5. Goten manages to compete somewhat with Gohan when they are both SSJ's, yet Goten and Trunks take an L to 18 in the tournament as SSJ's, showing even SSJ Goten or Trunks are below 18 still, and at least somewhat comparable to Gohan in the tourney arc.

6. Trunks actually manages to land a hit on SSJ Vegeta in training suprising him, again showing they are not that far removed from the others.

So base Saiyans in Buu arc are still below 18.

So I recomend anybody 18 level or up such as Meta Cooler and Super android 13 also get the speed stats.

Sound reasonable?

Side note: Something kinda interesting to for people who care about kai continuity, the other world tournament events actually take place in Kai to, you see them in the ending of episode 98.

https://************/Anime/Dragon-Ball-Kai/Episode-098?id=59450&s=default

 

[Dark649]

The char. on 18 level are: U. Tenkaichi 4-B Hero, Meta-Cooler, Android 13, Android 14 and 15.

Not sure about Cooler's strongest Cyclonian Guards, Base Broly, Xenoverse 1 Towa, Future Warrior 1 and 2 4-B keys, GT Pan, GT Base Trunks and the Sigma Force should scale.

 

[Kepekley23]

The anime has Goten and Trunks both attack 18 as Super Saiyans after having their costume cut off and not land a single hit, no?

I really dislike the fact that we use manga logic for the anime. The two are separate, both in canonicity and in continuity. We should not assume common sense logic in the manga applies to the anime.

 

[Kepekley23]

Goku stated he hadn't met anyone as awesome as the Sigma Force in a long while when he first sensed them. What is there to doubt? They clearly scale way beyond even Cell.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

SSJRyu Goku was unaware of his power growth at the time, so him considering Cell a threat wasn't entirely accurate. And Pikkon still effortlessly stomped Super Perfect Cell with one punch. Pikkon was holding back against SSJ1 and Goku needed to go SSJ Kaioken in order to win actually.

Pretty sure Trunks Vs Tien is PIS. It might be similar to Goku going SSB against Krillin despite the amount of power he actually used being less than what base form is capable of.

Trunks effortlessly stomped 17, 18, and Cell, so that doesn't prove him actually needing the transformation. Also, Gohan was significantly holding back against Goten as was Vegeta against Trunks. 18 on the other hand was actually pretty serious against the kids, who were in turn actively trying not to destroy the suit.

 

[Straika]

@Kepekley23 Since Toei Goku's speed feat got added, can I ask you, who scales to this feat?

 

[Kepekley23]

Let's just apply it to anyone who surpasses No. 18 and call it a day.

 

[SSJRyu1]

I agree with the top ones for sure.

As for the others, X1 FW can beat an amped Frieza by dark magic, and X2 beats amped Frieza and Cooler at once. Not sure how you wanna scale that.

Towa can at least outrun base TP Trunks, who is a future version superior to Cell games one, and actually in X1 fights supresseed Mira, so should scale imo to Towa, as Trunks is actually pretty tough in Xenoverse, well above 18.

Base Broly i'm neutral on, not much to go on there.

GT Pan can land a few hits on Rildo and take some iirc, beats one of the sigma's to so theres that, so i'd say she scales.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4kDRsZDbg4

Trunks in base not really sure.

Sigma force can compete with supressed Goku, and the weakest can equal Pan at her peak, so i'd say they likely scale.

 

[SSJRyu1]

I think applying it to 18 and up level fighters is reasonable and most including staff agree. Would you like to do it or should I?

 

[Kepekley23]

Movie 8 versions of the Z Warriors are weaker than the Cell Games versions, so no, Base Broly shouldn't scale.

 

[Dark649]

Sorry if it's unrelated but GT Baby Saga Goku has at least 3-C SS Forms from fighting General Riildo stronger two forms which are at least 3-C, GT Baby Saga Vegeta is stated to be somewhat comparable so should he get the same stats?.

 

[Elizhaa]

He should get the same stats, Dark649. From what I remember, Goku had a tougher time while fighting GT Baby Saga Vegeta.

 

[Dark649]

Ok.

 

[AKM sama]

If the changes have been applied, should we close this thread now?

 

[Antvasima]

I don't mind, but we should probably get confirmation from the others first.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

If the changes were made, I think this thread is concluded now.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will close this then.