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I agree.. Using Ryu's statements, i now agree with 2-A DBX and those who scale to it .
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Dragon Ball Xenoverse possible Revisions
- Thread starter Super_Saiyan_God_Julian
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Still best to wait for Azzy. But y'all have me outnumbered, so I'll concede if Azzy agrees.
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- Thread starter
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Updated the OP with the new info.
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Did you link to the wrong thing when using Imgur though... It linked to Saint Seiya ..
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- Thread starter
- #165
Are you sure? I pressed the two links and they took me to cell and the patroller's statement.
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You should also include 16's and Chronoa's statements.
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@Seed
Linking to Saint Seiya is basically his point, though. He's arguing that Saint Seiya has an equally vague "timelines can be infinite" statement, but we still accept it.
Ryu is always kind and reasonable, and 2-A seems fine t me.
Linking to Saint Seiya is basically his point, though. He's arguing that Saint Seiya has an equally vague "timelines can be infinite" statement, but we still accept it.
Ryu is always kind and reasonable, and 2-A seems fine t me.
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- #168
Could you put them here? I don't know where they are.Bluetrekking said:
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inb4 "Are you talking about yourself or SSJRyu?"
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Yeah, despite our constant disagreements, I can happily and wholeheartedly say SSJRyu is a paragon.
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Ryu defiitely is a very good debator though and seemingly a great person . I honestly can see him being a good Mod here one day... But that is simply my opinion.
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Are you sure they're talking about infinite timelines? To me it seems that they're talking about what could possibly happen in the future and not about infinite timelines i could be wrong.
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- #177
That could be a compromise. Until Azzy arrives and confirms either 2-B or 2-A. "At least 2-B, possibly 2-A" could work until we get full confirmation.
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- Thread starter
- #178
I've added the rest of the scans btw.
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I am not Azzy, but I have arrived.
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We can all rejoice now, for Matt has arrived! ovo
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I want to see what this will lead to.
Ryu should by all means have the chance to post his rebuttal, though.
Ryu should by all means have the chance to post his rebuttal, though.
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Analyzing the OP:
Myriad of time paradoxes resulting new timelines is 2-B. A low-end, likely countable 2-B, but it is.
Supposed Infinite Timelines statements:
This just says that the future holds infinite possibilities, which is obvious as every decision can lead to infinite futures. However, new timelines are made through time travel in Dragon Ball, and not in a quantum-mechanics sort of thing where every possible decision is simultaneously made in different universes. Not 2-A, then.
This is Shin Budokai and not Xenoverse.
I don't see how this proves or even suggests 2-A? 16 is just talking about possibilities in general, not timelines, and the fact that the number of possibilities can be narrowed to just one suggests they are not infinite].
All sorts of possibilites = A lot of possibilites.
Myriad of time paradoxes resulting new timelines is 2-B. A low-end, likely countable 2-B, but it is.
Supposed Infinite Timelines statements:
This just says that the future holds infinite possibilities, which is obvious as every decision can lead to infinite futures. However, new timelines are made through time travel in Dragon Ball, and not in a quantum-mechanics sort of thing where every possible decision is simultaneously made in different universes. Not 2-A, then.
This is Shin Budokai and not Xenoverse.
I don't see how this proves or even suggests 2-A? 16 is just talking about possibilities in general, not timelines, and the fact that the number of possibilities can be narrowed to just one suggests they are not infinite].
All sorts of possibilites = A lot of possibilites.
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The OP is not arguing 2-A, Ryu is.
Just a heads-up.
Just a heads-up.
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I totally agree with Matthew
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Ryu will have the chance the respond, though.
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Not arguing just copy-pasting
1. We see virtually all DB characters and stories present in DBH. From DB/Z/GT/Super anime and manga, movies, specials, games only characters, and events portrayed as existing through many timelines. In fact we even already accepted things like DBO being part of Xenoverese based on this same premise alone, since it has the time breakers, time patrol and multiple story elements that cross from DBO to Xenoverse.
https://imgur.com/a/TtcRD
2. In the DBH manga it is confirmed that all DB lore is a part of the DBH world, which is considered fiction in the real world in DBH like in our own world. They literally are shown playing DBH UMX on 3DS, and said to be treated like they are watching the events just like us.
https://imgur.com/a/D9o2t
https://imgur.com/gallery/znxtw
3. We have very specific examples of many DB games and spin offs existing in the DBH world further strengthening the proof that it can all be applied to DBH.
Of course we all have seen the DB/Z/GT/Super guys present with their stories. So unless you want to see more proof on them I will not need to post scans for that.
Dragon Ball 4D with God Broly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qhjd1i6Zuk0
Dragon Ball Minus and other stuff
https://youtu.be/vl-TA84ijHg?t=83
https://imgur.com/a/Xi3O1
Dragon Ball Z Extreme Butoden (DBHUM2 is referring to SSJ4 Broly crossing from DBH to DBZEB)
https://imgur.com/a/ZYA6x
Dragon Ball Fusions
https://imgur.com/a/PpK21
Kuriza in DBH
https://imgur.com/a/k7Lqm
Neko Majin Z
https://youtu.be/8AqumRLIUdk?t=409
Dokkan in Xenoverse in Heroes
https://imgur.com/a/iDEfv
DBS Manga and Yamcha reincarnation spin off in DBH
https://imgur.com/a/FbHyp
DB Fighter Z part of Xenoverse which is part of heroes and Dokkan
https://imgur.com/a/QXPel
Limit Break x Survivor singer (one who sings the DBS theme)
https://imgur.com/a/yoRgG
https://r3---sn-vgqsrnes.googlevide...m=34&mn=sn-vgqsrnes&ms=ltu&mt=1514333905&mv=m
Shin Budokai implied part of it (Babidi Buu is directly taken from Shin Budokai)
https://imgur.com/a/fZPzY
So, as you can see, we literally have over a dozen different DB shows, manga's, games/specials or spin offs directly being shown as part of DBH verse, and the implication that all DB lore is part of the DBH verse through the real world being just like our own, even referencing specific games and systems like DBH UMX on 3DS.
I believe this is significant proof that we can consider all the games etc as part of DBH multiverse.
1. We see virtually all DB characters and stories present in DBH. From DB/Z/GT/Super anime and manga, movies, specials, games only characters, and events portrayed as existing through many timelines. In fact we even already accepted things like DBO being part of Xenoverese based on this same premise alone, since it has the time breakers, time patrol and multiple story elements that cross from DBO to Xenoverse.
https://imgur.com/a/TtcRD
2. In the DBH manga it is confirmed that all DB lore is a part of the DBH world, which is considered fiction in the real world in DBH like in our own world. They literally are shown playing DBH UMX on 3DS, and said to be treated like they are watching the events just like us.
https://imgur.com/a/D9o2t
https://imgur.com/gallery/znxtw
3. We have very specific examples of many DB games and spin offs existing in the DBH world further strengthening the proof that it can all be applied to DBH.
Of course we all have seen the DB/Z/GT/Super guys present with their stories. So unless you want to see more proof on them I will not need to post scans for that.
Dragon Ball 4D with God Broly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qhjd1i6Zuk0
Dragon Ball Minus and other stuff
https://youtu.be/vl-TA84ijHg?t=83
https://imgur.com/a/Xi3O1
Dragon Ball Z Extreme Butoden (DBHUM2 is referring to SSJ4 Broly crossing from DBH to DBZEB)
https://imgur.com/a/ZYA6x
Dragon Ball Fusions
https://imgur.com/a/PpK21
Kuriza in DBH
https://imgur.com/a/k7Lqm
Neko Majin Z
https://youtu.be/8AqumRLIUdk?t=409
Dokkan in Xenoverse in Heroes
https://imgur.com/a/iDEfv
DBS Manga and Yamcha reincarnation spin off in DBH
https://imgur.com/a/FbHyp
DB Fighter Z part of Xenoverse which is part of heroes and Dokkan
https://imgur.com/a/QXPel
Limit Break x Survivor singer (one who sings the DBS theme)
https://imgur.com/a/yoRgG
https://r3---sn-vgqsrnes.googlevide...m=34&mn=sn-vgqsrnes&ms=ltu&mt=1514333905&mv=m
Shin Budokai implied part of it (Babidi Buu is directly taken from Shin Budokai)
https://imgur.com/a/fZPzY
So, as you can see, we literally have over a dozen different DB shows, manga's, games/specials or spin offs directly being shown as part of DBH verse, and the implication that all DB lore is part of the DBH verse through the real world being just like our own, even referencing specific games and systems like DBH UMX on 3DS.
I believe this is significant proof that we can consider all the games etc as part of DBH multiverse.
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Analyzing the first Ryu post.
Scan has already been debunked above. There are infinite possible future that can unfold at any time, but this does not mean that they all simultaneously exist. Because timelines are created through time travel and paradoxes.
These Two images suggest something more akin to decisions creating universes. However, this is not 2-A, because it is impossible to reach infinity by adding up finite numbers, even if the increase is exponential or geometric.
For instance, the numerical sequence (1 + 2 + 4 + 8 + 16 + 32 + 64 + 128 + 256 + 512 + 1024...) may seem infinite, but it isn't. Unless it keeps going for infinite time, it cannot ever reach infinity, instead the most it can get to is a stupid, horribly uncountable number.
Again, Shin Budokai has nothing to do with Xenoverse. And I also question Cell's statement. Do we know if his word is reliable? Does he have some sort of Cosmic Awareness or outside knowledge to be aware of there being "endless worlds"? Also endless does not necessarily mean literal infinite, but more that there is such a large number that it seems to go on forever.
Which fits with how timelines work in Dragon Ball.
Scan has already been debunked above. There are infinite possible future that can unfold at any time, but this does not mean that they all simultaneously exist. Because timelines are created through time travel and paradoxes.
These Two images suggest something more akin to decisions creating universes. However, this is not 2-A, because it is impossible to reach infinity by adding up finite numbers, even if the increase is exponential or geometric.
For instance, the numerical sequence (1 + 2 + 4 + 8 + 16 + 32 + 64 + 128 + 256 + 512 + 1024...) may seem infinite, but it isn't. Unless it keeps going for infinite time, it cannot ever reach infinity, instead the most it can get to is a stupid, horribly uncountable number.
Again, Shin Budokai has nothing to do with Xenoverse. And I also question Cell's statement. Do we know if his word is reliable? Does he have some sort of Cosmic Awareness or outside knowledge to be aware of there being "endless worlds"? Also endless does not necessarily mean literal infinite, but more that there is such a large number that it seems to go on forever.
Which fits with how timelines work in Dragon Ball.
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@Blue
Talking about Xenoverse, not Heroes.
Talking about Xenoverse, not Heroes.
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@Matt
What Ryu is suggesting is that history is stated to be able to take infinite paths, and it has been implied that those paths already exist in the timelines.
Which, given his huge post above, seems likely.
What Ryu is suggesting is that history is stated to be able to take infinite paths, and it has been implied that those paths already exist in the timelines.
Which, given his huge post above, seems likely.
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Oh, you replied. Lemme read.
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@Matt, In the last thread, I said why Xenoverse is canon to Heroes.
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Are you preparing a rebuttal for his second post?
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Me? Idk. Ryu is better at that.
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Talking to Matt.
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K.
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Analyzing Ryu's second post.
Let me see all the Dragon Ball scans here...
>Sees Saint Seiya Omega scans
Holy shit, you are actually using Saint Seiya to argue infinite universes for Dragon Ball?
The two examples are not at all identical.
In Saint Seiya we know that every single possibility that exists does exist because we have Chronos, the literal conceptual embodiment of all space and time, in which all past, present, and future are one. All infinite possible futures and outcomes all exist because they have already happened, they are all within Chronos' lake dimension which serves as a nexus between all possible timelines.
If Chronos did not exist I wouldn't be arguing for 2-A Saint Seiya.
Also, in Saint Seiya Lost Canvas we are outright shown a parallel universe where Hades won a war against Athena, and this has nothing to do with time travel or weird decisions. It simply exists as an alternate world.
Also, Paradox outright states that these infinite futures are true and real, and not just possibilities. And she also takes Ryuho to a literal dimension outside the timelines (Crossroads) to show it to him, where we can literally see timelines being created and splitting as a result of decisions.
Let me see all the Dragon Ball scans here...
>Sees Saint Seiya Omega scans
Holy shit, you are actually using Saint Seiya to argue infinite universes for Dragon Ball?
The two examples are not at all identical.
In Saint Seiya we know that every single possibility that exists does exist because we have Chronos, the literal conceptual embodiment of all space and time, in which all past, present, and future are one. All infinite possible futures and outcomes all exist because they have already happened, they are all within Chronos' lake dimension which serves as a nexus between all possible timelines.
If Chronos did not exist I wouldn't be arguing for 2-A Saint Seiya.
Also, in Saint Seiya Lost Canvas we are outright shown a parallel universe where Hades won a war against Athena, and this has nothing to do with time travel or weird decisions. It simply exists as an alternate world.
Also, Paradox outright states that these infinite futures are true and real, and not just possibilities. And she also takes Ryuho to a literal dimension outside the timelines (Crossroads) to show it to him, where we can literally see timelines being created and splitting as a result of decisions.
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Yes, but Heroes isn't canon to Xenoverse.Bluetrekking said:
Just like the Classic Saint Seiya Manga is directly canon to Lost Canvas, as it is a prequel to it, but Lost Canvas isn't Canon to the Classic Manga, as the direct sequel Next Dimensions shows the events which actually happened 246 years ago.
Similarly, how the Classic and Prequel Trilogy of Star Wars movies are canon to both Disney and Legends, but that doesn't mean that everything is canon to each other.
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Again, not arguing just copy-pasting arguments in the thread
"Edit: he said "this outcome" which was referring to 1 possibility, the one they are in. Then mentioned there are other possibilities of which the warrior said there are infinite which implies they do already exist"
"Edit: he said "this outcome" which was referring to 1 possibility, the one they are in. Then mentioned there are other possibilities of which the warrior said there are infinite which implies they do already exist"
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I honestly don't mind 2-B. I don't particularly care, either way.
The 2-A statement is the exact same one brought up before, which isn't actually a 2-A statement. It's something that applies to pretty much any space-time continuum that can have potentially differing outcomes.
The 2-A statement is the exact same one brought up before, which isn't actually a 2-A statement. It's something that applies to pretty much any space-time continuum that can have potentially differing outcomes.
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