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Dragon Ball: Tournament of Power Revisions Part 3

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Our final list, before determining what to downgrade the characters to:

  • Staying 3-A: Frieza, Hit, 17, Toppo, Dyspo, Caulifla, Kale, Kefla, Cabba, Gohan, Koichirator, Anilaza, Obuni, Frost, Saonel, Pirina, Magetta, Ultimate Katopesla, Maji Kayo, Crusher Bergamo, Ribrianne, possibly Rozie and Kakunsa.
  • Downgrading: Raging Battle Katopesla, Base Bergamo, Lavender, Basil, Napapa, Hop, Hyssop, Jimeze, Gamisaras, Damon, Tupper, Nigrisshi, Viara, Naririma, Bollarator.
Did I miss anyone?
 
Besides the fact that his only feat in Raging Battle Mode was beating up a Vegeta that was explicitly letting himself take damage?
 
The only difference between his ultimate and raging mode is that raging mode has the 300x boost, while the ultimate mode simultaneously has the 300x power and speed boost.

Ultimate Katopesla received no damage boost. Also there's this
 
I agree with Frost and Piccolo staying 3-A including Universe 6 arc.
 
x300 Katopesla does not scale to base Vegeta. Durability in DB is tied to the amount of ki you are exerting. Him "hurting" that ultra held-back Vegeta means nothing.
 
You're saying that as if Ultimate isn't Raging with an additional 300x speed boost. Also the context is that they were both holding back.
 
Ultimate is evidently even stronger, and it makes zero sense for Katopesla to amp his strength and then... Not use it. So yeah, he wasn't holding back, pure headcanon.
 
Denial of facts =/= headcanon

Very strong logic

I guess SSJ2 Cabba is Golden Frieza level even though Frieza was still holding back and called their fight a waste of excess stamina

I guess Berserker Kale actually manhandled SSB Goku

Katopesla 3-A when?
 
He matched a serious base Vegeta in their second fight, even to the point where Katopesla calls him a "worthy foe".
 
All 3 Universe 6 Saiyans should be universal because all of them scale to each other and Kale and Caulifla have feats that are universal
 
ByAsura that's like saying the Trio De Dangers are universal cause they "held their own" against SSGSS Goku and Vegeta. Katoplesa is so fodder that Frieza literally decided to ignore him
 
Base Frieza varies from Base Goku Level to SSG Level, also no, it's not like that since this was just whirlwind speed mode, and likely a casual Katopesla. How does ignoring Katopesla make him weaker than Frieza anyway? Frieza didn't actually give a reason, he just said "I'll ignore that" so he could continue to knock out other opponents.
 
1. How the heck does Final Frieza = SSJG Goku?

2. The fact that Frieza decided not to torture him like he did Jimeze means that Frieza thought he was weak enough to completely disregard
 
The fact that he could dish out everything Dyspo could dish out, and was revealed to be feigning that he was even hurt a little.

How does that even compare? Jimeze is a teleporter who was beating up Gohan, of course he would beat him up, especially since he intervened just as Gohan was about to be beat, he also might have done it to show Gohan to fight at full power.
 
Freeza was literally beating Dyspo who was not much weaker than SSG Goku. I legit don't understand how most people think ToP Base Freeza is base saiyan level.

Also the vast majority of the ToP Contestents (including Cabba, Frost, Ribrianne, etc.) should not be 3-A at all imo. I'm in the minority (I think) here who believes current Base Goku is leagues below BOG SSG Goku. IMHO:

Base Saiyan Level characters: 4-B (Same tier as Basil)

SSJ Level Characters: 4-B/4-A (Likely stronger than anyone in the Buu saga)

SSJ2 Level Characters: 4-A/3-C

SSJ3 Level Characters:3-C

SSG/SSB Level Characters: 3-A (Obviously)

UI Level Characters: Low 2-C (Obviously)

Obviously just my opinion. Not getting into another flamewar over this either.
 
@SuperDragoon Uh, no. No one's 4-A or 3-C. Goku and Vegeta are 3-A in base form.
 
SuperDragoon978

Here's why I think that Frieza is Base Saiyan level:

in RoF. Final Form Frieza < Base Goku, but then Golden Frieza > SSGSS Goku, and only lost due to stamina. This proves that Golden form > SSGSS in terms of power boost. Knowing this, remember the match that Goku and Frieza had before the ToP, like whoever hits the other first wins? SSGSS Goku tied with Golden Frieza in that competition, meaning that Golden Frieza is relative if not arguably a bit stronger than SSGSS Goku after the Goku Black arc. After removing transformations for both of them, then Frieza would still be around Base Saiyan level. SSJG's increase in power is incredibly expodential, so much in fact that in BoG, Goku went from a multi-solar system buster as an SSJ3 to a multi-universe buster as a SSJG. This multiplier would be in the quadrillions of times.

So, with this in mind, are you tryin to tell me that Final Form Frieza is quadrillions of times stronger than Base Goku?


Also, Goku absorbed SSJG into Base, so Base Goku in the ToP is still universe level.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
@SuperDragoon Uh, no. No one's 4-A or 3-C. Goku and Vegeta are 3-A in base form.
Click to expand...
No, they're not. Nothing I have seen have put the Base Saiyans at 3-A. That is completely contradictory to everything shown in Super.
 
They're 3-A because post BoG, Goku became strong enough to put their base stronger than BoG saga SSG Goku. Only reason he showcases lower power is if he's holding back a lot. Goku also resisted Hakai in base form.
 
Mickey1940 said:
SuperDragoon978
Here's why I think that Frieza is Base Saiyan level:

in RoF. Final Form Frieza < Base Goku, but then Golden Frieza > SSGSS Goku, and only lost due to stamina. This proves that Golden form > SSGSS in terms of power boost. Knowing this, remember the match that Goku and Frieza had before the ToP, like whoever hits the other first wins? SSGSS Goku tied with Golden Frieza in that competition, meaning that Golden Frieza is relative if not arguably a bit stronger than SSGSS Goku after the Goku Black arc. After removing transformations for both of them, then Frieza would still be around Base Saiyan level. SSJG's increase in power is incredibly expodential, so much in fact that in BoG, Goku went from a multi-solar system buster as an SSJ3 to a multi-universe buster as a SSJG. This multiplier would be in the quadrillions of times.

So, with this in mind, are you tryin to tell me that Final Form Frieza is quadrillions of times stronger than Base Goku?


Also, Goku absorbed SSJG into Base, so Base Goku in the ToP is still universe level.
Click to expand...
Your argument relies on the assumpting that Base Freeza was inferior to Base Goku, something that is debatable considering the narrator claiming that Goku needed Super Saiyan Blue to surpass Freeza. The ToP alone has several moments indicating Freeza>>>>Base Saiyans:

1. Stomping ToP fodder during the first half of the tournament, some of whom could fight base saiyan level characters (Napapa, Jimeze, etc.)

2. Held off against Ultimate Gohan for a time.

3. One shott Frost who could fight SSJ Vegeta while not at full power.

4. Not being afraid to fight SSJ2 Caulifla and Kale while still in his base form.

5. Tanking attacks from Dyspo who could hurt SSG Goku.

6. Dodged an attack from Anilaza that was aimed at SSG Goku.

7. Temporarily restricting GoD Toppo, something I highly doubt Base Goku could do.

And probably more.

Goku absorbing God ki to his base is referred to only in the same saga it happens. It is ignored afterward with no hints that anyone of the characters Base Goku fights are stronger than Super saiyan God. When SSG returns it is treated as far higher than Base Goku. The manga doesn't even have the god ki thing happen. And finally if you want to count this, there was Basil who lost to Good Buu and yet could fight base Goku to an extant. Nothing implied Basil trained inbetween fights. Thats why I think Base Goku is not 3-A.
 
It's been discussed multiple times that Goku, Vegeta, and Frieza are 3-A. They simply all just get stronger and stronger as the series progresses. Beerus even stated that base Goku was even stronger than his First SSG appearance. SSG reappears and appears much stronger than their base forms, yes; but all of Goku's forms are getting stronger and stronger. RoF and beyond Base Goku is clearly 3-A and his forms are stronger yet.
 
So what tier will be the downgraded characters at? 4-B or High 4-C?
 
That depends which ones, those who scale to the human characters should probably be around Large Star level+ scaling from Tien's Katchin destroying feat and that would also give 18 a slight upgrade. Basil still scales to Majin Buu so he's 4-B. There's others, but the staff may elaborate.
 
SuperDragoon978 said:
Mickey1940 said:
SuperDragoon978
Here's why I think that Frieza is Base Saiyan level:

in RoF. Final Form Frieza < Base Goku, but then Golden Frieza > SSGSS Goku, and only lost due to stamina. This proves that Golden form > SSGSS in terms of power boost. Knowing this, remember the match that Goku and Frieza had before the ToP, like whoever hits the other first wins? SSGSS Goku tied with Golden Frieza in that competition, meaning that Golden Frieza is relative if not arguably a bit stronger than SSGSS Goku after the Goku Black arc. After removing transformations for both of them, then Frieza would still be around Base Saiyan level. SSJG's increase in power is incredibly expodential, so much in fact that in BoG, Goku went from a multi-solar system buster as an SSJ3 to a multi-universe buster as a SSJG. This multiplier would be in the quadrillions of times.

So, with this in mind, are you tryin to tell me that Final Form Frieza is quadrillions of times stronger than Base Goku?


Also, Goku absorbed SSJG into Base, so Base Goku in the ToP is still universe level.
Click to expand...
Your argument relies on the assumpting that Base Freeza was inferior to Base Goku, something that is debatable considering the narrator claiming that Goku needed Super Saiyan Blue to surpass Freeza. The ToP alone has several moments indicating Freeza>>>>Base Saiyans:
1. Stomping ToP fodder during the first half of the tournament, some of whom could fight base saiyan level characters (Napapa, Jimeze, etc.)

2. Held off against Ultimate Gohan for a time.

3. One shott Frost who could fight SSJ Vegeta while not at full power.

4. Not being afraid to fight SSJ2 Caulifla and Kale while still in his base form.

5. Tanking attacks from Dyspo who could hurt SSG Goku.

6. Dodged an attack from Anilaza that was aimed at SSG Goku.

7. Temporarily restricting GoD Toppo, something I highly doubt Base Goku could do.

And probably more.

Goku absorbing God ki to his base is referred to only in the same saga it happens. It is ignored afterward with no hints that anyone of the characters Base Goku fights are stronger than Super saiyan God. When SSG returns it is treated as far higher than Base Goku. The manga doesn't even have the god ki thing happen. And finally if you want to count this, there was Basil who lost to Good Buu and yet could fight base Goku to an extant. Nothing implied Basil trained inbetween fights. Thats why I think Base Goku is not 3-A.
Click to expand...
1. Gohan is not Base Saiyan level cause he has no feats proving so

2. Gohan as Ultimate is not SSGSS level. Just because Goku used SSGSS Kaioken doesn't mean that Gohan's on that level. Hell, he used SSGSS against KRILLIN and still didn't immediately win in a beam struggle

3. Vegeta was comfortable fighting Frost while in Base Form, he only used SSJ after Magetta showed up

4. Goku stomped initial SSJ2 Caulifla in Base Form while heavily injured and didn't have enough stamina to maintain SSJ3 for more than a few seconds

5. Dyspo is not God level If he was, then it would contradict RoF's scalings for Golden and SSGSS, as well as Goku vs Frieza before the ToP.

6. That means that SSJ Vegeta = SSJG Goku cause they were fighting Anilaza with the same results, although Vegeta was actually doing slightly better against him. At this point in the tournament, Goku used UI a second time, and unlike the first time, he did not get any energy from Frieza or anyone else, so he should be heavily drained and injured.

7. Toppo used an unquantifiable percent of his true power against Frieza's paralysis. Besides, he was completely dominating God=lden Frieza, much less Final Form Frieza, so I don't see how Toppo was using any effort in that paralysis.


If you don't believe that Goku absorbed the power of a God into Base, then that means that Frieza is the third strongest villain in DB Super before the ToP, putting him above Hit, Future Zamasu, and Goku Black. This is because Frieza would scale to RoF Goku, which by your thoughts would be far stronger than every other incarnation of Goku, since Goku's base form would be superior to his future Base forms by several trillions of times.
 
1. He has tons of feats proving he's on that level, like when he literally went toe to toe with base and Super Saiyan Goku in the same forms, he's also fought characters on that level, like the Robots of Universe 3.

2. You are totally mistaken, Ultimate Gohan's Full Charge Kamehameha could overpower the Kochinator, who, with a much weaker beam, equalled SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta's combined Galick Gun and Kamehameha, doesn't mean they're on par since it was full charge, but it certainly means they are relative. It was literally stated by the Narrarator his power rivals Goku, who was in SSB. He also fought on par with Dyspo's Super Mode when he didn't use light bullet, which was knocking Golden Frieza back and damaging him, not to mention that Gohan took a blast from Golden Frieza at full power when restraining Dyspo.

3. No, just no, he was not comfortable fighting Frost in base, he only punched him away while Frost wasn't on guard, which Vegeta did to 19 as well, a much stronger than base opponent. He went Super Saiyan because Magetta was literally just attacking him.

4. Then Caulifa powered up to full power revealing that she was suppressed while fighting Base Goku, and then increased in power through potential.

I'm not going to talk about the other points, just these points because you're downplaying Gohan, Frost, and Caulifa.
 
And please don't debate about base Goku and derail this thread. It has been debated several times and there is a discussion rule against it.
 
My thing is this about Goku....how does he not have an "At Least" 2 a few of his 3-A? I was told that Goku is at a very high end of one of his 3-A in one of the arcs
 
We rarely use At least before 3-A because 3-A's tier is literally infinite. Being even GooglePlexPlexPlexPlex times baseline 3-A is still 3-A.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
We rarely use At least before 3-A because 3-A's tier is literally infinite. Being even GooglePlexPlexPlexPlex times baseline 3-A is still 3-A.
Click to expand...
but i remember seeing some profiles w/ "At Least 3-A" before but idr who they were
 
I know, but that was for 17 and Frieza do to some iffy concerns about them harming an exhausted Jiren. It was due to them being possibly High 3-A or Low 2-C but not enough proof for them to be higher than 3-A. Simply being far above baseline 3-A will never get you an at least rating.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I know, but that was for 17 and Frieza do to some iffy concerns about them harming an exhausted Jiren. It was due to them being possibly High 3-A or Low 2-C but not enough proof for them to be higher than 3-A. Simply being far above baseline 3-A will never get you an at least rating.
Click to expand...
srry i meant other characters in different shows lol
 
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