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Dragon Ball Toei Discussion Thread

Adem_Warlock69 said:
Is this good? (Super 17 and Shadow Dragon Sagas don't change)
Trunks is shown to be stronger than Pan in even his base form. ~3.44 PetaFOE. This scales to Ledgic and Mutchy

Doltalki believed that Level 2 Luud is enough to beat Suppressed Goku while he believed Mutchy had no chance against Suppressed Super Saiyan Goku. >3.44 PetaFOE

Suppressed Super Saiyan Goku and Super Saiyan Trunks are both stated to be above Level 2 Luud. <172.43 PetaFOE

Dr. Myuu believed that Level 3 Luud would able to win against SSJ Trunks and Suppresed SSJ Goku after witnessing Level 2 Luud being overpowered. ~172.43 PetaFOE

The Sigma Force are individually over a 100 times stronger than Suppressed Super Saiyan Goku. ~14.24 ExaFOE.

The Super Mega Cannon Sigma gave Rilldo a significant boost, meaning they shouldn't be that far behind him. ~51.73 ExaFOE.

Goku remarked that Base Rilldo was even stronger than Buu, so >>51.73 ExaFOE. This scales to Base Black Star Saga Goku

Note: Goku stating "The universe sure is a big place huh? His ki is even stronger than Buu's" implies that the prior villains had yet to surpass Kid Buu

Hyper Meta Rilldo is likely 2 times stronger, so ~103.46 ExaFOE

Myuu believed Baby could defeat the three, despite being aware that Goku was strong enough to outmatch Meta-Rilldo. so >103.46 ExaFOE

Base Goten is strong enough to take on and appeared to have the upper hand on Baby. so >103.46 ExaFOE

SSJ Goten is 50x that. so >5.17 ZetaFOE, which is 4-A+

Gohan is noted to hold his own while trying not to hurt Baby SSJ Goten. so >5.17 ZetaFOE

SSJ Gohan is 50x that. so >258.5 ZetaFOE, which is 3-C

Baby remarks that SSJ Vegeta's power is even stronger than Gohan. so >>258.5 ZetaFOE

Base Goku was able to defeat Gohan and Goten, both as Super Saiyans, simultaneously. so >>>258.5 ZetaFOE

SSJ Goku is 50x that. so >>>12.92 YottaFOE, which is 3-B

SSJ3 Goku is even stronger. so >>>>12.92 YottaFOE

Goku notes that Baby Vegeta as a Super Saiyan is an even match for himself as a Super Saiyan 3. so >>>>12.92 YottaFOE

Baby admitted that he had been enjoying himself and later says that Uub's power isn't all that bad (Comparatively he thought Super Saiyan 3 Goku was a pathetic opponent.) so Post Training Uub is >>>>>12.92 YottaFOE

Majuub was able to fight on par with Super Baby 2 for a period of time and during their beam clash Super Baby 2 was forced to use his full power. so Majuub is >>>>>>12.92 YottaFOE

Elder Kai mentioned SSJ4 Goku wasn't using even a smidgen of his power when fighting Super Baby 2. So SSJ4 Goku is at least >>>>>>129.2 YottaFOE
Click to expand...
Nice!

It doesn't change a lot, but don't forget that Baby Versions of characters is their ki + Baby's Ki. So Baby SSJ Goten is basically SSJ Goten + Baby.

And I'm pretty sure there was a crt that made SSJ4 10x SSJ1.
 
Mr.Cinos15 said:
Nice!

It doesn't change a lot, but don't forget that Baby Versions of characters is their ki + Baby's Ki. So Baby SSJ Goten is basically SSJ Goten + Baby.

And I'm pretty sure there was a crt that made SSJ4 10x SSJ1.
Click to expand...
I mean Great Ape is a stated 10x increase so the SSJ version of it would no doubt be 10*50 or a 500x increase at the very least.
There's also an arument to be made that SSJ4 is 10 times SSJ3 so.
 
Shouldn’t we take SS2 to amp strength over two times that of SS1?

Even if the multiplier is not accepted SS2 should still be bare minimum lowball > 2x SS1 because Gohan with less than half his SS2 power is =\> SPC who is stronger than his earlier Full Power Self which in turn is stronger than the Supressed state that was handling SS1 Gohan with relative ease.
 
Yeah i think since the ss4 includes the ape form it can be >10x ss3

Grade 4 > grade 3 doesn't change anything as the 10x multiplier isn't accepted
 
Actually SS4 s multiplier would be the difference between SS1 and SS3 times 10 bare minimum.

Because Baby as a SS1 stomped SS3 Goku and then powered up to a SS3 equivalent before going Oozaru (10x)

Gokus base power didn’t change vs Baby meaning he overcame the gap with SS4 alone
 
AguilaR202 said:
Actually SS4 s multiplier would be the difference between SS1 and SS3 times 10 bare minimum.

Because Baby as a SS1 stomped SS3 Goku and then powered up to a SS3 equivalent before going Oozaru (10x)

Gokus base power didn’t change vs Baby meaning he overcame the gap with SS4 alone
Click to expand...
Okay so we can use SS4 as a bear minimum 10x increase then.
 
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About the grade multipliers, I think it depends on if we apply manga guidebooks to the anime. The statement for Grade 3 being a 10x boost is from El Manga Legendario, while the statements for Grade 4 being the strongest form are anime-only tmk.
 
AguilaR202 said:
Shouldn’t we take SS2 to amp strength over two times that of SS1?

Even if the multiplier is not accepted SS2 should still be bare minimum lowball > 2x SS1 because Gohan with less than half his SS2 power is =\> SPC who is stronger than his earlier Full Power Self which in turn is stronger than the Supressed state that was handling SS1 Gohan with relative ease.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't it be a 60x multiplier due to the AP difference between SSJ Teen Gohan (1.23 Kilofoe) and his SSJ2 Form during the cell games (61.92 Kilofoe)?
 
TimeTrapperFanBoy said:
Wouldn't it be a 60x multiplier due to the AP difference between SSJ Teen Gohan (1.23 Kilofoe) and his SSJ2 Form during the cell games (61.92 Kilofoe)?
Click to expand...
Actually Cell Games SS1 Gohan should be >30.96 KiloFOE as that’s the AP of his SS1 Buu saga self who scales above Shin in base.

But generally speaking dividing AP values of out universe to get multipliers is shaky as it gets because while we might observe exponential increases in power between forms in universe characters aren’t that far apart in power from each other.
 
AguilaR202 said:
Actually Cell Games SS1 Gohan should be >30.96 KiloFOE as that’s the AP of his SS1 Buu saga self who scales above Shin in base.

But generally speaking dividing AP values of out universe to get multipliers is shaky as it gets because while we might observe exponential increases in power between forms in universe characters aren’t that far apart in power from each other.
Click to expand...
1. Yeah that makes sense, considering Buu Saga Gohan is weaker than Cell Games Gohan yet he was able to swing the Z-Sword around in just his base form and the Kais were not strong enough to do that and they're stronger than Piccolo who is 619.2 Foe. Have you contacted Vizer04 about this?

2. Noted
 
SSJGeminiJJ said:
If SSJG Goku is accepted as universal because of statements from Elder Kai, I don't see why this shouldn't be valid too.
Click to expand...
DBS manga scaling is pretty dumb as it is currently tbh and far too compressed for all the arcs and powerup shown

BoG SSG Goku + Beerus putting the universe in jeopardy should be at most near baseline 3-B based on what is actually shown ( universe shaking )

They should only be 3-A after Fused Zamasu based on his “wiping all the galaxies” statement
Which makes the powerscaling more sensible because it reflects the power difference of Fusion amp of a guy whose SS2 surpasses SSB and could go SSB on top of it vs the initial power of SSG at the very beginning.
 
in the anime Dragon Ball GT has a quote of dragons merging the other world with the living world, is it possible to update Omega Sheron with this?

For low 2-C?
 
Need help making a scaling chain for characters from "what if Kakarot was Evil"

Here is the power scaling I have so far, not in a scale but words explaining how strong they are to different characters by each arc

Start of series (21st tournament arc): kakarots power level in the 100 range and strong as Tien

22nd tournament arc: kakarot beats everyone there and strong as tien

Evacuation Arc: kakarot has a power level of 1200

Crusher corps arc: kakarot is stronger then raditz and close in power to nappa (in this arc Turles after eating a fruit form the tree of Might killed all the Ginyu force)

Crusher Duo arc: kakarot easily Dodoria, nappa and vegeta (Turles easily killed Transformed Zarbon and is stronger via eating from the tree of Might meny more times)

Freiza arc: freizas 3rd form some what matches kakarot and Turles working together with turles being the stronger of the two. After eating fruit from the tree of Might they are now stronger then 50% freiza and both of then kill 100% Freiza. After eating more fruits kakarot alone easily kills king cold

Bojack arc: kakarot and turles kill bojacks henchmen. Evil saiyan kakarot easily kills Bojack

Evil Saiyan fall out arc: they both have gotten stronger, with turles also getting his evil saiyan form and kakarot is stronger then turles by a slight amount.

Lord Slug arc: Months pass with both kakarot and turles getting stronger and kakarot is stronger then him and beats him, forcing him to run away but both are hurt by the fight and it was a close one. Raditz is weaker then prime Lord Slug in base, but belives with ssj he can kill Lord Slug. Granolah's attacks harm prime Lord Slug. With one shot he killed all four the heaters after his wish and now he overpowers Granolah in base. Super Saiyan raditz can counter Granolah's attacks (proving him saying in ssj he can kill prime Lord Slug to be true with Slug knowing raditz had ssj, making him wish for his potential to be unlocked out of fear). Kakarot and super saiyan raditz, Granolah are matching him in power (mostly kakarot) with Granolah targeting his weak points to show kakarot and raditz where to hit Slug, ssj raditz and evil saiyan kakarot kill orange Lord Slug with a head shot combo attack

Cooler arc: Turles eats fruits from stars now and gains a new form. Kakarot gets super saiyan and it's weaker then evil saiyan (meaning however strong a evil saiyan is, it's more then 50 times boost), Base raditz kills coolers squad easily. Both kakarot and raditz in base casually knock away coolers lasers, ssj raditz overpowers base Cooler, but cooler goes into his 5th form and stomps ssj raditz and can hold back two super saiyans (with kakarot being stronger then raditz), evil saiyan kakarot and 5th form cooler are on par with one another with kakarot bringing him to his knees. Cooler has great potential but not like freiza's potential and has been training for a few years, cooler then goes Black Cooler and one punch of air knocks raditz out of ssj, stomps Evil Saiyan Kakarot casually. With one finger he stomps both ssj raditz and evil saiyan kakarot, Kakarot mixes Super Saiyan with Evil Saiyan making "Supreme Saiyan" (50 times Multiplier mixed with a over 50 times Multiplier) and he is now even with black cooler, Cooler makes a black hole and launches it at kakarot and he moves away from it then punches a hole through black cooler with all his energy and then launches cooler into the black hole with all his energy.

Star-Eater Turles arc: Raditz can use Evil Saiyan now after some time. Supreme Saiyan Kakarot and Evil Saiyan Raditz fight Infernal Turles and Infernal Turles and Evil Saiyan Raditz can't do anything to help as Supreme Saiyan Kakarot gets beat down by Infernal Turles, Raditz eats the fruit from the tree of Might from a star they are fighting on and gains Infernal Raditz but raditz isn't on turles' level but Turles' takes some damage from his attack as Raditz's form is unstable unlike Turles' and he is letting the power all out so he isn't killed by this form.

Now what would each of their keys look like?
 
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