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The Kaioshin Realm is't a universe, is only a comparison of the validity of the idea that they can destroy that place compared to something accepted
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Dragon Ball Toei Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Shmeatywerbenmanjenson
- Start date
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Destroying the Kaioshin Realm is still like High-End 3-B, which would make GT around if not above most Super 3-As lel
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- Thread starter
- #44
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Then why are you disagreeing with me? If its less than 50x, that means base broly downscales
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I'm not sure why it'd be deemed to be an outlier. Do you think there's some other feats that contradict it?
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It isn't an outlier, it's mostly just people being weirdly incredulous, even despite the clear narrative intent and statements of things like Buu being capable of destroying the universe instantly that shows that it isn't anything outlierish at least based on what's thought of Buu's power in the story at that point.
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Is there any other feats in the Buu arc that come close to universal?
I'm not against it but it's a single statement, not even a single feat. And said statement is pretty vague if he meant over time or instantly though I'm inclined to go with instantly
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Just like Omega Shenron or SSJG Goku destroying the universe or Beerus and Champa destroying 2 universes both being reliant on a few statements without any single feat close to that level, but these are accepted as valid, so it shouldn't really matter.
Just like for Omega, there was even an animation shown during the narrator's dialogue at the end of episode he reached the Kaioshin Realm which shows a destroyed Kaioshin Realm and you can see how the entire space itself was warped/discolored and the Kaioshin Planet along with all the celestial bodies around it are gone.
This is no more questionable than other Dragon Ball statements currently accepted on this wiki.
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Even if it's over time, it was enough of a risk to be taken seriously. Even if it would take one hour, it'd still be Multi-Galactic. Also, there being other feats doesn't really matter, since it still wouldn't be contradicted. Plus, all the lore around the Universe being at risk of destruction (whether over time or not) would support this.
Edit: Oh yeah also, while Old Kai expressing the possibility of Goku and Boo being able to destroy the KSR is just a statement, the second scan is a description of something currently happening, so it's not just a statement.
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Well than make a CRT about it.
Be sure you have a ton of evidence to support this. This is DBZ were talking about after all
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Atm I don't really feel like writing walls of messages, but maybe I'll make a CRT sometime later in the year.
Also sorry if I got a bit argumentative earlier, was just trying to see if there were any cracks in the feat since it's pretty underdiscussed imo.
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Me think it's going to be treated like the DBS manga's universal feat
Nullflowerblush
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What statements exactly? The one repeated ad nauseam by supplementary sources and backed up by two, completely accidentally, nearly universe-destroying explosions, or the one substantiated from explicit statements that said character has the ability to destroy the universe and a visual that demonstrates the entire universe being affected?
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DBS manga
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to be fair janemba should be 3-A, he warped all of the afterlife, passively sustaining it and overriding its order, if not Gogeta should be 3-A because his soul punisher purified janemba and restored the afterlife back to normal.
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We always downscale base saiyans from their super saiyan forms why is broly special
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wouldn’t it be logical to rate base forms 1/50th of the SSJ 1 considering its a 50x multiplier to begin with
the multiplier never changed, even mastered SS1 is just regular SS1 with a calm mind.
the multiplier never changed, even mastered SS1 is just regular SS1 with a calm mind.
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Android and cell saga
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I don’t know what profiles you’re looking at, but the Saiyans aren’t backscaling from their SSJ forms on the manga or anime profiles.
Yes, that is a logical thing to do. Downscaling isn’t.
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Thats literally what i meant tho
You thought i meant that base and ss1 scale to the same value? Noo
i meant that broly should be >1/50th of his feat
Oliver_de_jesus
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now that I realize, buutenks was able to disappear from Ultimate Gohan's ki sense, and he perceives as the genkidama travels from planet earth to the world of the supreme kaios
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Oh lmao, my badThats literally what i meant tho
You thought i meant that base and ss1 scale to the same value? Noo
Downscaling usually means scaling to the same value or slightly below it (like someone being 7-B+ for being slightly weaker than a baseline 7-A)
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I know, i just didn't know what term to use
Anyway, is there anything against 4A base broly ? (Or whatever value is his feat divided by 50)
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Ultimate toei Gohan is 500 quintillions c which is around the speed needed to cross universal diameters in thousandths of a second, even if calcable that feat would at most be in the quadrillions.
Oliver_de_jesus
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where does that come from?
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He scales massively above otherworld arc Goku who is single digit quadrillions in base and Gohan reaches that level because he is stronger than a Super Saiyan whose base is stronger than a Super Saiyan whose base surpasses Gokus Super Saiyan level. Super Saiyan being an accepted 50x amp to speeds
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Thats an entirely different topic
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Has anyone made a complete GT scaling chain?
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Is this good? (Super 17 and Shadow Dragon Sagas don't change)
Trunks is shown to be stronger than Pan in even his base form. ~3.44 PetaFOE. This scales to Ledgic and Mutchy
Doltalki believed that Level 2 Luud is enough to beat Suppressed Goku while he believed Mutchy had no chance against Suppressed Super Saiyan Goku. >3.44 PetaFOE
Suppressed Super Saiyan Goku and Super Saiyan Trunks are both stated to be above Level 2 Luud. <172.43 PetaFOE
Dr. Myuu believed that Level 3 Luud would able to win against SSJ Trunks and Suppresed SSJ Goku after witnessing Level 2 Luud being overpowered. ~172.43 PetaFOE
The Sigma Force are individually over a 100 times stronger than Suppressed Super Saiyan Goku. ~14.24 ExaFOE.
The Super Mega Cannon Sigma gave Rilldo a significant boost, meaning they shouldn't be that far behind him. ~51.73 ExaFOE.
Goku remarked that Base Rilldo was even stronger than Buu, so >>51.73 ExaFOE. This scales to Base Black Star Saga Goku
Note: Goku stating "The universe sure is a big place huh? His ki is even stronger than Buu's" implies that the prior villains had yet to surpass Kid Buu
Hyper Meta Rilldo is likely 2 times stronger, so ~103.46 ExaFOE
Myuu believed Baby could defeat the three, despite being aware that Goku was strong enough to outmatch Meta-Rilldo. so >103.46 ExaFOE
Base Goten is strong enough to take on and appeared to have the upper hand on Baby. so >103.46 ExaFOE
SSJ Goten is 50x that. so >5.17 ZetaFOE, which is 4-A+
Gohan is noted to hold his own while trying not to hurt Baby SSJ Goten. so >5.17 ZetaFOE
SSJ Gohan is 50x that. so >258.5 ZetaFOE, which is 3-C
Baby remarks that SSJ Vegeta's power is even stronger than Gohan. so >>258.5 ZetaFOE
Base Goku was able to defeat Gohan and Goten, both as Super Saiyans, simultaneously. so >>>258.5 ZetaFOE
SSJ Goku is 50x that. so >>>12.92 YottaFOE, which is 3-B
SSJ3 Goku is even stronger. so >>>>12.92 YottaFOE
Goku notes that Baby Vegeta as a Super Saiyan is an even match for himself as a Super Saiyan 3. so >>>>12.92 YottaFOE
Baby admitted that he had been enjoying himself and later says that Uub's power isn't all that bad (Comparatively he thought Super Saiyan 3 Goku was a pathetic opponent.) so Post Training Uub is >>>>>12.92 YottaFOE
Majuub was able to fight on par with Super Baby 2 for a period of time and during their beam clash Super Baby 2 was forced to use his full power. so Majuub is >>>>>>12.92 YottaFOE
Elder Kai mentioned SSJ4 Goku wasn't using even a smidgen of his power when fighting Super Baby 2. So SSJ4 Goku is at least >>>>>>129.2 YottaFOE
Doltalki believed that Level 2 Luud is enough to beat Suppressed Goku while he believed Mutchy had no chance against Suppressed Super Saiyan Goku. >3.44 PetaFOE
Suppressed Super Saiyan Goku and Super Saiyan Trunks are both stated to be above Level 2 Luud. <172.43 PetaFOE
Dr. Myuu believed that Level 3 Luud would able to win against SSJ Trunks and Suppresed SSJ Goku after witnessing Level 2 Luud being overpowered. ~172.43 PetaFOE
The Sigma Force are individually over a 100 times stronger than Suppressed Super Saiyan Goku. ~14.24 ExaFOE.
The Super Mega Cannon Sigma gave Rilldo a significant boost, meaning they shouldn't be that far behind him. ~51.73 ExaFOE.
Goku remarked that Base Rilldo was even stronger than Buu, so >>51.73 ExaFOE. This scales to Base Black Star Saga Goku
Note: Goku stating "The universe sure is a big place huh? His ki is even stronger than Buu's" implies that the prior villains had yet to surpass Kid Buu
Hyper Meta Rilldo is likely 2 times stronger, so ~103.46 ExaFOE
Myuu believed Baby could defeat the three, despite being aware that Goku was strong enough to outmatch Meta-Rilldo. so >103.46 ExaFOE
Base Goten is strong enough to take on and appeared to have the upper hand on Baby. so >103.46 ExaFOE
SSJ Goten is 50x that. so >5.17 ZetaFOE, which is 4-A+
Gohan is noted to hold his own while trying not to hurt Baby SSJ Goten. so >5.17 ZetaFOE
SSJ Gohan is 50x that. so >258.5 ZetaFOE, which is 3-C
Baby remarks that SSJ Vegeta's power is even stronger than Gohan. so >>258.5 ZetaFOE
Base Goku was able to defeat Gohan and Goten, both as Super Saiyans, simultaneously. so >>>258.5 ZetaFOE
SSJ Goku is 50x that. so >>>12.92 YottaFOE, which is 3-B
SSJ3 Goku is even stronger. so >>>>12.92 YottaFOE
Goku notes that Baby Vegeta as a Super Saiyan is an even match for himself as a Super Saiyan 3. so >>>>12.92 YottaFOE
Baby admitted that he had been enjoying himself and later says that Uub's power isn't all that bad (Comparatively he thought Super Saiyan 3 Goku was a pathetic opponent.) so Post Training Uub is >>>>>12.92 YottaFOE
Majuub was able to fight on par with Super Baby 2 for a period of time and during their beam clash Super Baby 2 was forced to use his full power. so Majuub is >>>>>>12.92 YottaFOE
Elder Kai mentioned SSJ4 Goku wasn't using even a smidgen of his power when fighting Super Baby 2. So SSJ4 Goku is at least >>>>>>129.2 YottaFOE
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Well it just means a small amount it could be anything
Just figure out baby ape multiplier and ss4 downscales from that
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