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timeline will be low 2-c and Universes will be 3-A, and all will be downgraded '-'Can anyone make a short sentence summary of what is going to be addrd if whatever gets accepted
Characters that don't scale to the Omni King or something would also be downgraded like Goku, Jiren, Beerus, etc.The only characters who will lose their ratings are the characters who are rated 2-C
Goku wouldn’t be downgraded they scale to Fused Zamasu who fused with time and the entire universe they would keep their ratingCharacters that don't scale to the Omni King or something would also be downgraded like Goku, Jiren, Beerus, etc.
no they wouldn't, now they scale to the weird half 2-C of beerus and champa's feat, not they all will become baselineGoku wouldn’t be downgraded they scale to Fused Zamasu who fused with time and the entire universe they would keep their rating
How don’t they scale to infinite Zamasu?no they wouldn't, now they scale to the weird half 2-C of beerus and champa's feat, not they all will become baselineat least until someone makes a thread about infinite zamasualso it is infinite zamasu, not fused zamasu
No offend, but this is bullshit reasoning, a space-time inside another bigger space-time is a normal thinga separated space time would by default
It is a contradiction because of your personal interpretation of Frieza statement, not a direct contradiction,Yeah, at best it'll be treated as another contradiction of guidebooks as manga contradicts the reasoning of RoSaT being inside universe directly.
i didn't say that they don't, not going to say my point here since it would be derailing, going to save it to another threadHow don’t they scale to infinite Zamasu?
no it isn't, we wouldn't assume that a space time is inside another without reasoning, the default assumption is that it is outsideNo offend, but this is bullshit reasoning, a space-time inside another bigger space-time is a normal thing
not a personal interpretation, this is just how the term is used all the time it is used in dbs, and also the scan not saying much + the one who was using it concede a while agoIt is a contradiction because of your personal interpretation of Frieza statement, not a direct contradiction,
There is no default assumption when it come to small, pocket level of space-time dimension until you deal with universal-sized space-timeno it isn't, we wouldn't assume that a space time is inside another without reasoning, the default assumption is that it is outside
It is personal:not a personal interpretation, this is just how the term is used all the time it is used in dbs, and also the scan not saying much + the one who was using it concede a while ago
yes there is, it is said the be a separated dimension, it is not considered to be part of the universe, it has its own space time, and we have no proof nor reason to believe that it is part of the timeline, for anyone to say that it is part of the timeline it would need evidenceThere is no default assumption when it come to small, pocket level of space-time dimension until you deal with universal-sized space-time
refer to everytime anyone used the term universe in dbs, but also the main point was, with it not being considered to be inside the universe we now have no reason to believe that it is, same goes for the timelineIt is personal:
1. because you have no proof that the word: universe always refering to the entire U7 because multiple time when they refering to U7 they directly say Universe number 7 or in Japanese is Dai-Nana Uchū
it is said to be a rosat by vegeta and goku, so it is unless proven otherwise2. Just because Frieza said about a random dimension/place doesn't mean he refering to ROSAT
correction, it is said to be, no interpretation, you interpreted as he also say about ROSAT
it doesn't, read aboveand you included it in, so the contradiction come from personal interpretation of the text
what do you mean?What's special about Zeno being able to destroy 12 universes, if it just range?
I'm not very smart about it, but what does it all mean?A spacetime inside a spacetime time can still have Low 2-C/2-C/2-B/2-A feats without being a hypertimeline with the following reasons below
AKM sama: Would you say a multiverse that is a timeline consisting of 12 Low 2-C universes is sufficient evidence for it to be Low 1-C?
Someone: No.
Allow me to explain.
We have three dimensions of space, which we could (in a simplified version) model as RxRxR, that is the cartesian product of three infinite real number lines.
Time we could model as a single infinite real numbers line R.
A timeline is then (RxRxR)xR i.e. space x time.
Now, for multiple timelines, we need to operate in a 5-dimensional space. In the 5th dimension, they would all lay beside each other. Let's say we have 12 timelines, with their positions in the 5th dimensions being 1,2,3,4,..., 12. {1,2,3,4,...,12} is the set of those positions.
The multiverse consisting of 12 timelines would then be described by {1,2,3,4,...,12}x(RxRxR)xR.
In other words the cartesian product of the locations of each timeline, with one timeline.
Let's compare this to a timeline consisting of 12 universes. One universe is again RxRxR.
Those universes are in a multiverse. We again model their positions as {1,2,3,4,...,12}, just that this time those positions wouldn't be across the 5th dimensional axis, but the 4th one. (Which is really just arbitrary numbering)
So the multiverse is {1,2,3,4,..,12}x(RxRxR), in other words, a universe for each of the 12 positions.
Now let's make a timeline out of that. How do we do that? We again multiply (take the cartesian product) with the time axis. The same way we previously went from universe to timeline. The time axis is again modelled as R.
What we get is Rx{1,2,3,4,...,12}x(RxRxR). That is in mathematical terms a timeline consisting of 12 universes.
Let's make sure we got that right: We wanted Low 2-C universes, i.e. entire spacetimes. Are those entire spacetimes? Yes! Because the time dimension we added is equally applied to all universes. We, for example, have a point that is 5 seconds in the future of universe 3 at the coordinates (0,1,15). That point is in the construction above {5}x{3}x(0,1,15).
So those construction meets all demands. A timeline consisting of multiple universal spacetimes.
Let's compare those two constructs now.
Multiverse from 12 timelines was: {1,2,3,4,...,12}x(RxRxR)xR
Timeline of 12 Universes was: Rx{1,2,3,4,...,12}x(RxRxR)
Notice how those look almost the same? That's because they are! They are in fact only a rotation away from each other. The way the are rotated has no particular meaning, though. It's only result of how we happened to construct it. It's a difference equivalent to having north up on the map or having east up on the map.
If we rotate the constructs so that their time and space dimensions each fit to each other and do the same with their position in the multiverse we get that they are exactly the same. I.e. just write the universes number first, then write space and lastly write which time it is and you get exactly the same constructs.
Sooo... yeah, the two constructs are in fact exactly the same thing. So the object in question is just a regular 2-C Multiverse.
that this time those positions wouldn't be across the 5th dimensional axis, but the 4th one.The time axis is again modelled as R.I'm not very smart about it, but what does it all mean?
i don't understand what you were trying to say with all that, care to simplify? also they would need to proof of being space times in the first for this wouldn't they? the fact that they are affect by time travel sugests that they are not, and it requires less assumptions than the multiverse being this very specific kind of timeline instead, that is if i understood your point correctly, i would like a simplificationA spacetime inside a spacetime time can still have Low 2-C/2-C/2-B/2-A feats without being a hypertimeline with the following reasons below
AKM sama: Would you say a multiverse that is a timeline consisting of 12 Low 2-C universes is sufficient evidence for it to be Low 1-C?
Someone: No.
Allow me to explain.
We have three dimensions of space, which we could (in a simplified version) model as RxRxR, that is the cartesian product of three infinite real number lines.
Time we could model as a single infinite real numbers line R.
A timeline is then (RxRxR)xR i.e. space x time.
Now, for multiple timelines, we need to operate in a 5-dimensional space. In the 5th dimension, they would all lay beside each other. Let's say we have 12 timelines, with their positions in the 5th dimensions being 1,2,3,4,..., 12. {1,2,3,4,...,12} is the set of those positions.
The multiverse consisting of 12 timelines would then be described by {1,2,3,4,...,12}x(RxRxR)xR.
In other words the cartesian product of the locations of each timeline, with one timeline.
Let's compare this to a timeline consisting of 12 universes. One universe is again RxRxR.
Those universes are in a multiverse. We again model their positions as {1,2,3,4,...,12}, just that this time those positions wouldn't be across the 5th dimensional axis, but the 4th one. (Which is really just arbitrary numbering)
So the multiverse is {1,2,3,4,..,12}x(RxRxR), in other words, a universe for each of the 12 positions.
Now let's make a timeline out of that. How do we do that? We again multiply (take the cartesian product) with the time axis. The same way we previously went from universe to timeline. The time axis is again modelled as R.
What we get is Rx{1,2,3,4,...,12}x(RxRxR). That is in mathematical terms a timeline consisting of 12 universes.
Let's make sure we got that right: We wanted Low 2-C universes, i.e. entire spacetimes. Are those entire spacetimes? Yes! Because the time dimension we added is equally applied to all universes. We, for example, have a point that is 5 seconds in the future of universe 3 at the coordinates (0,1,15). That point is in the construction above {5}x{3}x(0,1,15).
So those construction meets all demands. A timeline consisting of multiple universal spacetimes.
Let's compare those two constructs now.
Multiverse from 12 timelines was: {1,2,3,4,...,12}x(RxRxR)xR
Timeline of 12 Universes was: Rx{1,2,3,4,...,12}x(RxRxR)
Notice how those look almost the same? That's because they are! They are in fact only a rotation away from each other. The way the are rotated has no particular meaning, though. It's only result of how we happened to construct it. It's a difference equivalent to having north up on the map or having east up on the map.
If we rotate the constructs so that their time and space dimensions each fit to each other and do the same with their position in the multiverse we get that they are exactly the same. I.e. just write the universes number first, then write space and lastly write which time it is and you get exactly the same constructs.
Sooo... yeah, the two constructs are in fact exactly the same thing. So the object in question is just a regular 2-C Multiverse.
Typing on phone sucks loli don't understand what you were trying to say with all that, care to simplify? also they would need to proof of being space times in the first for this wouldn't they? the fact that they are affect by time travel sugests that they are not, and it requires less assumptions than the multiverse being this very specific kind of timeline instead, that is if i understood your point correctly, i would like a simplification
Put of curiosity what information supports U7 (amd all others) being a spacetime universe? (Low 2-C universe?)
well, I still don't understand, but it's okay.that this time those positions wouldn't be across the 5th dimensional axis, but the 4th one.The time axis is again modelled as R.
What we get is Rx{1,2,3,4,...,12}x(RxRxR). That is in mathematical terms a timeline consisting of 12 universes.
Let's make sure we got that right: We wanted Low 2-C universes, i.e. entire spacetimes. Are those entire spacetimes? Yes! Because the time dimension we added is equally applied to all universes. We, for example, have a point that is 5 seconds in the future of universe 3 at the coordinates (0,1,15). That point is in the construction above {5}x{3}x(0,1,15).
So those construction meets all demands. A timeline consisting of multiple universal spacetimes. Let's compare those two constructs now.
Multiverse from 12 timelines was: {1,2,3,4,...,12}x(RxRxR)xR
Timeline of 12 Universes was: Rx{1,2,3,4,...,12}x(RxRxR)
Notice how those look almost the same? That's because they are! They are in fact only a rotation away from each other. The way the are rotated has no particular meaning, though. It's only result of how we happened to construct it. It's a difference equivalent to having north up on the map or having east up on the map.
If we rotate the constructs so that their time and space dimensions each fit to each other and do the same with their position in the multiverse we get that they are exactly the same. I.e. just write the universes number first, then write space and lastly write which time it is and you get exactly the same constructs.
Sooo... yeah, the two constructs are in fact exactly the same thing. So the object in question is just a regular 2-C Multiverse.
what does R stands for? how does this math works and why would it matter for this discussion? i am confusedthat this time those positions wouldn't be across the 5th dimensional axis, but the 4th one.The time axis is again modelled as R.
What we get is Rx{1,2,3,4,...,12}x(RxRxR). That is in mathematical terms a timeline consisting of 12 universes.
we added? this seems like a very specific kind of timeline, them not being space times but just spatially separated dimensions requires less assumptionsLet's make sure we got that right: We wanted Low 2-C universes, i.e. entire spacetimes. Are those entire spacetimes? Yes! Because the time dimension we added is equally applied to all universes.
wouldn't they need to be confirmed space times for this to be used?We, for example, have a point that is 5 seconds in the future of universe 3 at the coordinates (0,1,15). That point is in the construction above {5}x{3}x(0,1,15).
So those construction meets all demands. A timeline consisting of multiple universal spacetimes. Let's compare those two constructs now.
Multiverse from 12 timelines was: {1,2,3,4,...,12}x(RxRxR)xR
Timeline of 12 Universes was: Rx{1,2,3,4,...,12}x(RxRxR)
rotation?Notice how those look almost the same? That's because they are! They are in fact only a rotation away from each other. The way the are rotated has no particular meaning, though. It's only result of how we happened to construct it. It's a difference equivalent to having north up on the map or having east up on the map.
i really don't understand your pointIf we rotate the constructs so that their time and space dimensions each fit to each other and do the same with their position in the multiverse we get that they are exactly the same. I.e. just write the universes number first, then write space and lastly write which time it is and you get exactly the same constructs.
Sooo... yeah, the two constructs are in fact exactly the same thing. So the object in question is just a regular 2-C Multiverse.
oh, so it wasn't you saying that they are space times, just saying that even if they were it wouldn't be higher than 2-C?Typing on phone sucks lol
But yeah they'd need proof if being separate timelines too.
The whole paragraph is to say its possible for a Timeline to hold a 2-C Multiverse without reaching into higher tiers, or be a low 2-c timeline and each "universe" in it could still ne a low 2-C universe.
Yeah exactly what you said! It wouldn't be any higher than 2-C at the absolute best! it was explaining how a low 2-C timeline can hold more than 1 low 2-C structures and the whole timeline can still ne Low 2-C, and the same logic can be used with a Timeline with a 2-C structure.oh, so it wasn't you saying that they are space times, just saying that even if they were it wouldn't be higher than 2-C?
when someone time travels in one universe, all 12 are affected and branch into a new timeline, which wouldn't make sense if they had different timesThe time travelling is an antifeat that would need some elaboration
wait what? there is a tier 2 revision happening?once tier 2 revisions are done... the greater multiverse could be at risk of downgrade lol...
YesIf Pains revision goes through, branching timelines won’t be higher than low 2-C right?
when someone time travels in one universe, all 12 are affected and branch into a new timeline, which wouldn't make sense if they had different times
wait what? there is a tier 2 revision happening?
bro send me a linkIf Pains revision goes through, branching timelines won’t be higher than low 2-C right?
Wouldn't they scale to Jiren who scales above Infinite Zamasu?no they wouldn't, now they scale to the weird half 2-C of beerus and champa's feat, not they all will become baselineat least until someone makes a thread about infinite zamasualso it is infinite zamasu, not fused zamasu
Wouldn't they scale to Jiren who scales above Infinite Zamasu?
i didn't say that they don't, not going to say my point here since it would be derailing, going to save it to another thread
the argument is not dependent on the universes being space times, and also i want things to stay organizedits not derailing since the op mentions it
It is very much default assumption and the reason for entire paragraph in the zeno_h profile just to justify this thing.There is no default assumption when it come to small, pocket level of space-time dimension until you deal with universal-sized space-time
They'll beIf Pains revision goes through, branching timelines won’t be higher than low 2-C right?
Can someone give a summary of the discussion?
Yoshi.But time travel affects all of them, so they act like a quilted multiverse of sorts.