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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 79

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Not exactly. I don't think BoG was planned only because of DBE. But it might be a small factor in Toriyama's involvement again:

"I had put Dragon Ball behind me, but seeing how much that live-action film ticked me off3, and how I revised that script for the anime movie4 and complained about the quality of the TV anime5, I suppose somewhere along the line it's become a series I like too much to ever leave alone."

https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/dragon-ball-super-history-book-akira-toriyama-introduction/
 
Did we reach a conclusion on whatever that magazine scan was refering to UIO or UI goku when he was comapred to Beerus? I was playing DBH:Wolrd Mission the other day and Whiss said that UI Goku might be stronger than Beerus.
 
ZERO7772 said:
Did we reach a conclusion on whatever that magazine scan was refering to UIO or UI goku when he was comapred to Beerus? I was playing DBH:Wolrd Mission the other day and Whiss said that UI Goku might be stronger than Beerus.
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It was most likely referring to UI Goku, but I suggest not to use it because of its vague nature. Especially not for any canon scaling as such magazine scans tend to be very inconsistent and unreliable.
 
It makes no sense from story telling standpoint for Goku to be so much stronger than Beerus already so it's likely that only in Beerus's league with Full UI.
 
"Already"? Really? Beerus was introduced back in 2013, that was like 6 years ago - I honestly think that it is the perfect time to have Goku surpass him.

I am pretty sure that with MUI, Goku is beyond all the G.o.Ds.

That was the entire theme of the transformation - being able to do what not even the G.o.Ds can and obtaining a power greater than them.

The next level of power to strive for is that of the angels, so the story can always continue.


Beerus just gets hit with the Worf Effect.
 
Dragomer said:
Getting hit with the worf effect without even being fought is a weird concept though.
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I mean that Beerus will be the baseline for characters in the series going forward as being "strong",
 
I want a full Goku vs Beerus fight so that we can move on after Beerus is defeated. And maybe Beerus starts training for once.
 
PaChi2 said:
I want a full Goku vs Beerus fight so that we can move on after Beerus is defeated. And maybe Beerus start training for once.
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Yeah, I definitely think a rematch is in order - just to prove how far Goku has come.
 
Warren Valion said:
Dragomer said:
Getting hit with the worf effect without even being fought is a weird concept though.
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I mean that Beerus will be the baseline for characters in the series going forward as being "strong",
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Maybe, i just hope we get to see a fight with full power Beerus before he get left behind at least, he was one of the best DBS addition to the franchise after all.
 
Eh, I don't really want Beerus to be surpassed. See, I find power caps to be more interesting than power creeps, as the latter can get to a ridiculous level and make certain things irrelevant. Once Beerus is surpassed, he's going to be useless. Just like everyone else before him. It's also why I like MHA so much. The ceiling is All Might and will always be All Might.
 
If anything, Zeno is the power cap, not the Gods of Destruction. It doesn't really make sense to me that there would be multiple levels of power caps.


You do realize that MHA is told from the perspective of a future Deku that has surpassed All Might right? Like, it's been mentioned multiple times in both iterations of the material.
 
Eh, I find a constant level to compare yourself to kind of boring most of the time. It feels like the character is never getting stronger if they are always look at the same level forever. New characters to surpass can lead to new ideas.

The same can be said for the opposite though, if you are constantly changing up who the strongest guy in your verse is, then nothing that the characters do, in the now, feels meaningful.

Beerus has been around and been the power caps for like half a decade now. I think he has had his time and I am ready to see Goku strive surpass someone stronger.

Like Thomas Jeffereson said, "a little rebellion now and then is a good thing." Change can and should be a good thing.


Also, doesn't Deku say in the first episode that the story being told is how he surpassed All Might as the greatest hero?
 
With Deku, we know that's the eventual EoS. Adult hero Deku.

Also, look at the highest acclaimed series like this (acclaim=/=popularity btw). FMA, Cowboy Bebop, Avatar (f you), Evangelion, what they all have in common is focusing less on power creep. Compare part 1 Naruto to part 2 Naruto, or even part 1 DB to Z while power creep was there, it wasn't who had the bigger booms quite yet.
 
DBS is mother of all power creep. Like I legit want to see where they want to go with it. Even Toei has realized how badly fhey f*cked up with the power creep with Jiren and Broly.
 
The real cal howard said:
With Deku, we know that's the eventual EoS. Adult hero Deku.
Also, look at the highest acclaimed series like this (acclaim=/=popularity btw). FMA, Cowboy Bebop, Avatar (f you), Evangelion, what they all have in common is focusing less on power creep. Compare part 1 Naruto to part 2 Naruto, or even part 1 DB to Z while power creep was there, it wasn't who had the bigger booms quite yet.
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Still - All might won't always be the power cap like you said.


And acclaim =/= me liking it, and when it comes to works of fiction - I only care about myself likinh what I am watching. I am not a fan of any of like, any of those series.

I found FMA boring and stopped watching, Cowboy Bebop looks so boring that I don't even want to start watching it, Evangelion is a mecha anime with that 90s Anime look, so I don't give a shit about it.

And Avatar is a series I used to love, but have grown to care less and less about it as I have gotten older - the world just doesn't interest me anymore.


And while I like Part 1 of Naruto far more than Part 2 (barring some stuff like things with Pain, Itachi, Madara, and my favorite character Minato) - I don't like Part 1 of Dragon Ball as much as I do Part 2.

I find most of OG Dragon Ball kind of boring, tbh. Although the Piccolo Daimaou arc might be one of my favorite in Dragon Ball.
 
@Cal I mean at the end of the day, not every series has to follow those rules. Dragon Ball in truth has always had power creeps. I fought this guy, now a guy who makes him look like shit appears. This was most of DBZ so I don't understand how DBZ didn't have it where you had Raditz who dwarfed Piccolo and then Nappa who dwarfed Raditz and then Vegeta dwarfed Nappa and so on. DBS doesn't even have "I have the bigger booms" power creep in reality minus Kid Buu to Beerus. However, Universe busting was not really a point for say Hit, Goku Black, Merged Zamasu (minus IZ) or Jiren. So I don't follow your "it wasn't who had the bigger booms" comment.
 
Power creep is an issue that majory of battle anime/manga suffers from. DBS just took this into next level.

It got to the point where we must get a new form in every freaking arc just to sell more toys and gacha cards. I think part of the reason they took a break is because they wanted to think where to go with the story next because **** was getting out of hand.
 
@Warren. Bruh, you're an enigma in what you do and don't like lol.

@Dragon. Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily ******** on power creep. And I said Part 2 DB has it, which is why I compared it to Part 1. And that's what I was giving commendation to Super for. It wasn't about bigger booms in Super because Beerus was the power ceiling, and I've seen a lot of people commend Dragon Ball Super for that of all things.
 
I'm just on a higher level of intelligence than the masses.

Ban worthy statment Ó▓áÔò¡Ôò«Ó▓á
 
The real cal howard said:
With Deku, we know that's the eventual EoS. Adult hero Deku.
Also, look at the highest acclaimed series like this (acclaim=/=popularity btw). FMA, Cowboy Bebop, Avatar (f you), Evangelion, what they all have in common is focusing less on power creep. Compare part 1 Naruto to part 2 Naruto, or even part 1 DB to Z while power creep was there, it wasn't who had the bigger booms quite yet.
Click to expand...
******* Evangelion not having power creep ? really ? It has power creep up the wazoo, not only between the Eva and the Pilots but between the angels too.

Power creep is an issue that majory of battle anime/manga suffers from. DBS just took this into next level.
That's only true if you consider power creep as a probleme by itself and it isn't an objective one, It is present in most anime but i disagree that it is an issue, it can even be an important part of the franchise and it's narrative, like in DB, which is litteraly based on self improvement and 'there is always a bigger fish', i know the latest trend is the whole 'ruse force' thing but it doesn't make strenght based progression bad (especialy since even most 'ruse force' show end up with power creep, just with how broken someone's ability or how smart someone is rather than how strong they are)
 
Dragomer said:
******* Evangelion not having power creep ? really ? It has power creep up the wazoo, not only between the Eva and the Pilots but between the angels too.
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>Eva

>Power creep

How? The only unti thats stand out is #01
 
ZERO7772 said:
>Eva

>Power creep

How? The only unti thats stand out is #01
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If every Angels having more fuckery than the last, the longinus weapon and Berserk Eva aren't power creep, i don't know what you'd call it.
 
Beerus needed to be left in the dust a long time ago. He's one of the main reasons why Dbs powerscaling is an utter mess along with Toei and AT going back n forth on whether catboy becomes yesterday's old news.
 
ZERO7772 said:
Beerus isn't the reason why scaling is so wrong. It's Toei's shitty writing.
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I may agree considering with that sentiment. Doesn't help that Super has multiple writers doing there own thing on the anime which made shit even worse to keep consistent. However beerus is a problem cause it seems like AT doesn't want to move on from the cat which hurts/restricts future antagonists cause we can't have them be>beerus
 
People, till this day, still don't know the difference between power scaling and shitty writing?

Shitty power scaling is one form of poor writing, what are you on about? It's Toei's fault for introducing filler forms like SSBKK and SSBE which runied any sense of power scaling or consistent
 
I don't see how introducing a form that give a straight up multiplier that is litteraly part of the name make the power scaling bad.

Power scaling is 'who is stronger than' and that's pretty clear in DBS, it's not 'the character's power aren't to my liking so it's bad'.

Also Beerus was never flip flopped on until the TOP (except in the manga but the manga is shit anyway), he was clearly and consistently out of everyone's league.
 
I don't want to be rude, but how can you be so blind about this? Power scaling is figuring who is stronger than who and how they stack up to each other. Unless I missed something in the past 5 years, it's not rocket science.

Forms like SSBKK and SSBE are absolute worthless forms that served nothing to help the plot or the character progress in any sense or form and only helped to make the power creep worse which make each progress Goku and Vegeta makes only relevant within the arc itself and means nothing to the overall story because they are not supposed to surpass Beerus yet in this point of the story, which boils down to the writers only writing such power-ups because it's "cool"

In the end, you reach a point that it doesn't matter what character A or B does because they will never surpass character C until they are allowed to. Instead of Toei writers trying to follow that approach and keep it within the sense of reality they just keep giving characters mindless power-ups without any concern to the overall plot and scaling and fans are supposed to defend this scaling because...... It's their job appearntly?

At this point, you have to wonder how Beerus was the least bit satsifed with his match with SSG Goku, if the latter didn't even bring out 0.0001 of Beeru's full power and seemingly other U6 sayians were this stronger the whole time.
 
I like SSBKK, it was neat for them to bring Kaio-Ken back.

I'd rather something be dumb but cool, instead of just dumb.
 
Neither ssjbe nor ssjb kk were worth shit to the story only hype moments.

Ssjb kk was nothing but nostalgia luv and fan service while ssjbe was nothing but a pity form to give to vegeta cause they made the gap between goku and him pretty ******* big.
 
Warren Valion said:
I like SSBKK, it was neat for them to bring Kaio-Ken back.

I'd rather something be dumb but cool, instead of just dumb.
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Which is fair. It's fine to like something because it's "cool" even if it dumb sometimes. It's still shallow writing in the end IMO although DB writing was never that deep.
 
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