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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 78
- Thread starter DragonEmperor23
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Beating ssjb goku and vegeta aint convincing me he the strongest Eva nor failing to one shot freeza who jiren and his butt buddy toppo did one hit
And did Jiren do? Beating Goku/Vegeta and Frieza.
Toppo didn't one shot Frieza. Also, you are forgtting that Frieza made huge gains since he ToP according to the movie staff. Unless you wanna start and argue that Toppo is stronger than Broly?
Jiren took a shit on a ssjbkk x20 goku and evolution vegeta multiple times even when they broke there limits while far from FP and even when goku Axhieved MUI jiren broke his limits matched MUI blow for blow and even had goku down and had him needing 2 additional friendship boost+rage boost to beat him Freeza didn't do shit in the film and so called gains are nothing but head canon considering theres nothing hints at in the film (don't care for the novel) Toppo one shotted feeeza outta of his gold form and and jiren did the same while
And did Jiren do? Beating Goku/Vegeta and Frieza.
Toppo didn't one shot Frieza. Also, you are forgtting that Frieza made huge gains since he ToP according to the movie staff. Unless you wanna start and argue that Toppo is stronger than Broly?
Jiren took a shit on a ssjbkk x20 goku and evolution vegeta multiple times even when they broke there limits while far from FP and even when goku Axhieved MUI jiren broke his limits matched MUI blow for blow and even had goku down and had him needing 2 additional friendship boost+rage boost to beat him Freeza didn't do shit in the film and so called gains are nothing but head canon considering theres nothing hints at in the film (don't care for the novel) Toppo one shotted feeeza outta of his gold form and and jiren did the same while
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Let's at least all agree that Monaka would beat Jiren. He beat Hit afterall when Jiren was only able to beat his shadow clone, ovo
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He moment Goku instantly dies from the drawbacks of both, KK and UI.
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Cough cough.Zamasu Chan said:
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Bump. I feel like the Tournament of Power did a lot more saying 3-A and Low 2-C are not levels of infinity in DBZ ... They did it right between 109 and 110
Was anyone confused about the whole Supressed Jiren being the only Low 2-C besides the GoD, UI, or the other current ones .... or is it just me ? After the equivalent of a zenkai, Goku stated with a senzu he could probably fight Infinite Zamasu... Then later on when he gains a lot of power pushes Jiren past merely using his pressure.... Which scared Beerus more than Infinite Zamasu... with SSJ2 [because if SSJ2 was so much weaker he wouldn't have been able to push past his pressure, yet he was able to] to SSB levels... Which Jiren was clearly using more power/effort with blocking SSG Goku's attacks , then proceeding to punch Blue Goku than he did merely walking... Same with oneshoting Kale and other SSB level combatants. He clearly used more effort in those than he did just using pressure... which by proxy should be weaker than performing an offensive action against anyone.
Also the fact that the same pressure that terrified Beerus.... Everyone notable in the tournament who seemingly scales to 3-A (INCLUDING KALE whose one of the weakest in the battlefield in her base) was able to tank albeit they were being pushed back.
None of those occurences makes any sense if he was holding back an infinitesimally small portion of his power. ... Or if those on SSJ2 Goku tier [ToP] or above aren't Low 2-C... and considering the multitude of times the GoD were impressed with these later showings of strength isn't impossible either...
Was anyone confused about the whole Supressed Jiren being the only Low 2-C besides the GoD, UI, or the other current ones .... or is it just me ? After the equivalent of a zenkai, Goku stated with a senzu he could probably fight Infinite Zamasu... Then later on when he gains a lot of power pushes Jiren past merely using his pressure.... Which scared Beerus more than Infinite Zamasu... with SSJ2 [because if SSJ2 was so much weaker he wouldn't have been able to push past his pressure, yet he was able to] to SSB levels... Which Jiren was clearly using more power/effort with blocking SSG Goku's attacks , then proceeding to punch Blue Goku than he did merely walking... Same with oneshoting Kale and other SSB level combatants. He clearly used more effort in those than he did just using pressure... which by proxy should be weaker than performing an offensive action against anyone.
Also the fact that the same pressure that terrified Beerus.... Everyone notable in the tournament who seemingly scales to 3-A (INCLUDING KALE whose one of the weakest in the battlefield in her base) was able to tank albeit they were being pushed back.
None of those occurences makes any sense if he was holding back an infinitesimally small portion of his power. ... Or if those on SSJ2 Goku tier [ToP] or above aren't Low 2-C... and considering the multitude of times the GoD were impressed with these later showings of strength isn't impossible either...
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I never said he was ... I was saying it may techincally be possible to upgrade those comparable to [Post-Exhibition Match Goku] as Low 2-C due to SSJ2 Goku [Post-Exhibition Match] can overwhelm that same pressure that scared Beerus more than IZ and forced Jiren to use more effort than said pressure ... and is consistent with Goku's quote about him being able to beat IZ after he recovered with a senzu ... Albeit we were never told which form.
It doesn't really contradict much considering this is after he and the Z-Fighters who scaled to 3-A trained a crapton...
It doesn't really contradict much considering this is after he and the Z-Fighters who scaled to 3-A trained a crapton...
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Can we like not.
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... What's the problem ? I did say "technically" for a reason...
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Like, honestly, **** the idea that this verse needs to be treated special in the tier system all because SOME PEOPLE can't accept that Dragon Ball doesn't know how being 4D works. You NEED to be at least 1 infinity stronger than everyone weaker than you if you have ANY 4D power. Stop this nonsense, PLZ. No one is gonna get to make a whole new tiering system for Dragon Ball— and yes, that's the only proposal you have if you want to "fix" the problem you see. Instead of letting bad writing and lack of knowledge of 4D beings be what it is, you try to pretend like the Tiering System here means NOTHING. If that's the case, then we might as well cap Dragon Ball at High 3-A, because clearly 4D and higher dimensions don't exist in Dragon Ball.
But Zamasu. So no. Drop it PLEASE.
But Zamasu. So no. Drop it PLEASE.
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... I wasn't trying to change the tiering system... Nor saying it should be changed to adhere to Dragon Ball's special case... Which I'm neutral about anyways. I was saying it was possible (not that I agree with it... But it's possible) to scale Goku to IZ as of Post-Exhibition Match by cutting through the pressure with a kick that scared Beerus more than IZ did... I said it was consistent with Future Trunks Goku stating he could defeat IZ... I never said once I agree with that statement ... Just saying it's possible to debate.
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Goku never said said he could beat IZ all he said was if only I had a senzu which doesn't mean he could beat him.The 2nd Existential Seed said:
While I find dimensional tiering stupid cause AT let alone various of writers think about wat a bunch of nerds thinking this guy some higher dimensional being crap
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This post seems to just be pent up aggression and is purely one's opinion rather than any worthwhile contribution to discussions present.Amexim said:
Nobody said that the verse should be treated special.
Actually, it's our site who has a weird concept of dimensions; almost no fiction ever treats dimensions as we do except maybe Marvel, DC and a few others.
Nobody is saying we should make a whole new tiering system for Dragon Ball
No, that is absolutely not the only way to fix the problems brought forward. In fact, there has been several potential solutions brought up that does not involve the Tiering System meaning nothing.
Your opinion that 4D and higher dimensions don't exist is just that; your opinion. Even then you contradicted yourself by saying they don't exist in Dragon Ball, except Zamasu. Then that means they, in fact, do exist.
I know this is probably a vent post but this sort of post is really uncalled for and extremely unneccesary to reaching a conclusion.
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I was gonna apologize initially, but when I hit post, the message didn't go through, so I said **** it.
You pointing out Zamasu WITH me proves my point in how absurd it is to try to substantiate the argument that DBZ doesn't take it into account when it DOES. I was not counting Zamasu because not only do the people who think this shit not do it, but the simple fact that they feel this way is because the show more consistently "portrays" the absence of infinities. This is why they think this blatantly false thing.
>A few others.
A lot more. Most of them obscure. Arguably every single one that's above High 3-A, because, as we demonstrated, the feats being present necessitates dimensional tiering and infinities being a part of it, otherwise the feats wouldn't be possible. The story having characters without infinite power not be "portrayed" infinitely inferior is either a case of writers not knowing what they're doing, or that maybe those lesser characters need an upgrade. Context varies.
I literally have been arguing that higher dimensions in Dragon Ball exist the entire time, but you probably don't follow my posts. So whatever. Sorry Seed.
You pointing out Zamasu WITH me proves my point in how absurd it is to try to substantiate the argument that DBZ doesn't take it into account when it DOES. I was not counting Zamasu because not only do the people who think this shit not do it, but the simple fact that they feel this way is because the show more consistently "portrays" the absence of infinities. This is why they think this blatantly false thing.
>A few others.
A lot more. Most of them obscure. Arguably every single one that's above High 3-A, because, as we demonstrated, the feats being present necessitates dimensional tiering and infinities being a part of it, otherwise the feats wouldn't be possible. The story having characters without infinite power not be "portrayed" infinitely inferior is either a case of writers not knowing what they're doing, or that maybe those lesser characters need an upgrade. Context varies.
I literally have been arguing that higher dimensions in Dragon Ball exist the entire time, but you probably don't follow my posts. So whatever. Sorry Seed.
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Whenever I make large posts, I find that it's helpful to copy the whole thing before I press reply in case something goes wrong and FANDOM eats it.
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Goku never said said he could beat IZ all he said was if only I had a senzu which doesn't mean he could beat him.
While I find dimensional tiering stupid cause AT let alone various of writers think about wat a bunch of nerds thinking this guy some higher dimensional being crap
This is exactly how I feel about this site sometimes lol.
While I find dimensional tiering stupid cause AT let alone various of writers think about wat a bunch of nerds thinking this guy some higher dimensional being crap
This is exactly how I feel about this site sometimes lol.
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And you seriously think authors would write their stories with such concept in mind? And how does infinite dimensional exist in Real life? Are you seirous? It's just science fantasy
I am just tired of some nerds on intretnt whining because author won't follow "muh infinte 4-D and 3-D" rule whne we are the one trying to apply such concept to those characters.
Those wirters have a hard time remembeing what they wrote last episode, and you expect them to rememer that they made Jiren a 4-D being by comparing him to Infinte Zamasu? It just feel stupid sometimes.
I am just tired of some nerds on intretnt whining because author won't follow "muh infinte 4-D and 3-D" rule whne we are the one trying to apply such concept to those characters.
Those wirters have a hard time remembeing what they wrote last episode, and you expect them to rememer that they made Jiren a 4-D being by comparing him to Infinte Zamasu? It just feel stupid sometimes.
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Yet Jiren can trancend time through sheer strength and will. According to Angelic beings who make timeline and control time like its no ones business.
Toriyama has dabben in alot of shit his intent is impossible to get.
Toriyama has dabben in alot of shit his intent is impossible to get.
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