Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 38

[Darkinx]

Oh sorry lol

I misread your comment then

 

[Darkinx]

By the way, I might have lost some comments, but I thought staffers were creating Hakaishin's pages.. right?

 

[Dark649]

Hakaishin's pages.

These pages are not hard to make since they have the same structure as Beerus and Champa pages, but with a different image and minor addictions. The problem with this is that i have to place them in the tier list and i don't know the order from the weaker God to the strongest.

 

[Darkinx]

We'll probably have some more informations during next episode sparring. (And Sidra should be the weakest out of all..)

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Sindra put a portion of his power in the ball. A PORTION that True Golden Frieza struggled with his full power so as not to get destroyed by it. Sindra is way more powerful than Frieza.

 

[Darkinx]

@Dark Should we put Frieza higher on the tier list after this episode?

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Frieza didn't really struggle he just pretended to then he revealed that he was being really casual

 

[Darkinx]

Frieza didn't really struggle he just pretended to then he revealed that he was being really casual

He was sweaty and tired after that, what are you talking about? He just pretended he was in pain.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Yes he was prerending to be in pain he was actually casual about it.

 

[FTW395]

Then there's literally no hax in Dragonball and there never will be. Dragonball has always had hax not working simply because the other person was a lot stronger than the one performing the hax.

@KOME So is the Giygas-Zamasu called Infinite Zamasu?

 

[SomebodyData]

@FTW That was debunked a long time ago

 

[Golden_Void]

"Then there's literally no hax in Dragonball and there never will be."

Buuhan turning Vegito into chocolate. Chocolate Vegito wrecking him.

Chiaotzu using his TK on post-SSG Goku.

Guldo's time stop.

Ginyu's body change.

The list continues.


Accompanied by the fact that most hax are ki-based, so having stronger or equal ki to your opponent thus having resistance, makes sense.

Not all hax are created equal.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

I don't think you understand the concept of the statement you're replying to Rice

 

[SomebodyData]

@Dark do you mean context?

 

[Darkinx]

I'm sorry but I just rewatched the episode and after Sidra says "If he betrays us, I'll just destroy him" Rou replies: "Like it'll be that easy!!"

isn't this a feat for sidra's strenght?

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

I know I'm probably going to call a "DB hater" or something for this. But I don't see why someone should have resistance to a hax when that power explicitly doesn't work on people of a certain strength.

It all depends on how we choose to look at it. We can say that Hakai doesn't work on stronger people, or we can say that stronger people in Dragon Ball become more resistant to various hax.

I also think that Sidra's Hakai is less potent when granted to someone else. He seemed very confident that he could erase him himself.

 

[Dark649]

@Dark Should we put Frieza higher on the tier list after this episode?

I forgot to say that the new DB characters and the tier list upgrades are better to do them once the arc will be over.

 

[Ryukama]

Then there's literally no hax in Dragonball and there never will be.
Then so be it. If Dragon Ball isn't proven to have durability negating abilities then we won't say they do on their profiles. Simple as that. However

Dragonball has always had hax not working simply because the other person was a lot stronger than the one performing the hax.
This isn't true. Candy Beam worked on Vegito. Guldo can use his time stop on people stronger than him. Ginyu can bodyswap people stronger than him. Trunks can seal Zamasu. Etc.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

@Dark do you mean context?

Both work for what I meant

 

[Golden_Void]

I don't think you understand the concept of the statement you're replying to Rice

I clearly do, he said hax is pretty much not a thing when someone has stronger power, then I provided evidence against that, such as Chiaotzu using telekinesis on post-SSG Goku. And Buu transmuting Vegito.

 

[SomebodyData]

Not really? the closest it would be equal to context to would be idea, but thats still not what context means "How it is used / background info".

Assuming you mean context, it doesn't really matter in this case...

 

[Shock97]

This is the Hit "Time Stop" debate all over again.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

This may sound like typical DB wank, but I honestly think we should chalk it up to the fact that it's possible to resist hax in Dragon Ball through sheer raw power. However, we shouldn't scale it, and a given character still has to show a feat of resisting said hax.

E.g. if Goku resists mind hax for example, and it's explained that he did it through sheer power. That's fine. He should have mind hax resistence then. However, if there's another character more powerful than him, we shouldn't assume that they could resist it too. They would also have to show the same feat directly.

Various fictions that show hax resistance, will often give an explanation as to how they resisted it. I see nothing wrong with a fiction stating that it's possible to do it through sheer power. It's an explanation like any other.

So Frieza resisted Hakai through sheer power. That's fine. That's possible in Dragon Ball. But it's his feat only (and arguably Goku to a minor extent). It doesn't mean it would work on another character that's around Frieza's power level. They would have to show it too.

This would also apply to fictional characters outside of Dragon Ball. E.g. if we had a verse thread of Sidra vs a non-Dragon Ball character, and said character is stronger than Frieza, we can't assume that said character can resist Hakai if they've never shown resistance ot existance erasure in their respective universe.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Then there's literally no hax in Dragonball and there never will be. Dragonball has always had hax not working simply because the other person was a lot stronger than the one performing the hax.
@KOME So is the Giygas-Zamasu called Infinite Zamasu?

Yes.

 

[Golden_Void]

This may sound like typical DB wank, but I honestly think we should chalk it up to the fact that it's possible to resist hax in Dragon Ball through sheer raw power. However, we shouldn't scale it, and a given character still has to show a feat of resisting said hax.

THISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHIS.

I've been saying this for the LONGEST time. ESPECIALLY in outer-verse battles, where they say "AP doesn't matter for hax resistance", when clearly in the verse, there is usually a perfect correlation between the level of ki, and the successfulness of a hax ability.

 

[ZERO7772]

 

[ZERO7772]

Seemingly Goku on his own is on par with merged zamasu "MSSB", Vegito completely stomped Zamasu unlike the anime

So the scaling goes like i think : Vegito > Beerus > MSSB Goku = Merged zamasu > Vegta > Black

 

[Darkinx]

I'm sorry but I just rewatched the episode and after Sidra says "If he betrays us, I'll just destroy him" Rou replies: "Like it'll be that easy!!"
isn't this a feat for sidra's strenght?

What do you think about this?

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Seemingly Goku on his own is on par with merged zamasu "MSSB", Vegito completely stomped Zamasu unlike the anime
So the scaling goes like i think : Vegito > Beerus > MSSB Goku = Merged zamasu > Vegta > Black

I believe its more like Vegito>Beerus>Merged Zamasu>MSSB Goku>Vegeta

MSSB can not last for long. I find it idiotic that he even lasted that much. Also Zamasu could with a tech from his eyes or something else punch him when he uses Hakai and finish him. Goku is too focused when he uses the move. So there are ways to stop him. As for Black... Black like Vegeta used SSR 2-3 times in the same day in the manga. SSB gets weaker with each activation of the form and by the passage of the time. Shouldn't the same apply to Black? SSB = SSR.

So the second time Vegeta fought a weaker Black since Black had used SSR 2 times. (activated 2 times) So the form got weaker.

I think MSSB is very bad for the reason that if Black used (he can if he figured out the ki leaks) then he would be almost as powerful as Merged Zamasu and if the he merged with F Zamasu, the new Merged Zmasu would be on a whole new Level.

Also, I think Zamasu's Regenerationn is nerfed. He shouldn't need much time or try to regenerate like he did in some pages of the chapter. He should regenerate almost instantly.

DB is so nerfying Immortality. Perfect Immortality by Super DragonBalls should mean that even if Zamasu's body gets destroyed then he should be able to came back. Regenerate his whole body from nothing.

Also shouldn't MZ get Zenkais each time he heals like Black?

 

[ZERO7772]

MSSB Goku right now is the same thing as KK Goku when he fought Vegeta back at saiyan saga he can keep the MSSB For less than 20min so yeah it's nerfed, and not really MSSB > MZ as far raw power goes he was healing constantly after clashing with MSSB while Goku didn't heal anything

As for Black it went nearly the same way as the anime : Black stomp Vegeta -> Vegtea escape and use TC -> stomp Black, so i don't think Black used SSR twice at the same day but not sure tho

Merged zamasu getting nerfed is the same shit as the anime it's because he fused with Black so he isn't perfect anymore, when he fought Goku before fusing he was healing everything

IIRC zenkai post doesn't work anymore once saiyans reach this level of power because thire body cell well be at it's limits

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

MSSB Goku right now is the same thing as KK Goku when he fought Vegeta back at saiyan saga he can keep the MSSB For less than 20min so yeah it's nerfed, and not really MSSB > MZ as far raw power goes he was healing constantly after clashing with MSSB while Goku didn't heal anything
As for Black it went nearly the same way as the anime : Black stomp Vegeta -> Vegtea escape and use TC -> stomp Black, so i don't think Black used SSR twice at the same day but not sure tho

Merged zamasu getting nerfed is the same shit as the anime it's because he fused with Black so he isn't perfect anymore, when he fought Goku before fusing he was healing everything

IIRC zenkai post doesn't work anymore once saiyans reach this level of power because thire body cell well be at it's limits

And that's the point. Goku's body shouldn't last that long. Its worse than KK. Also its not really the same since if Vegeta, Black and MZ knew how to use this then they would be more powerful too. Overall MZ > MSSB Goku since he has the edge, maybe not in raw power but overall he is better.

Also, about Black. Manga and anime differ in the way SSB/SSR work. SSB the more is used in the manga the weaker it gets. Its a drawback. Same for Rose. Unlike in the anime were no drawback exists. That's what I am telling. SSB Vegeta was getting weaker each time he transformed like in U6 arc were against Hit he had 10% of his original SSB power. Vegeta countered this weakness in the manga by going SSG which is faster and went Blue when he hit Black.

Black like Vegeta used SSR (works like Blue) 2-3 times so with each transformation Black gets weaker. Black didn't know the weakness of the form. Also, MSSR Black would be > Goku.

No, its not the same as the anime. Here MZ is completely Immortal. In the previous chapter he healed instantly. In the new chapter in some pages he heals instantly and in some other he does not. Its very inconsistent.

Black in the Manga could get Zenkai boosts to the point he jobbed SSB Vegeta as SSJ. And then he became Rose. He is different from Goku and Vegeta. Also each time Black heals from his injuries his Sayain body and God soul became more and more one and complete since his new cells replace the old ones.

 

[ZERO7772]

MZ is better than MSSB in the same way beerus better than Vegito, Vegito is stronger but can only last for like 1 min even if you have power higher than all the gods you are at it's pointless, but yeah you have a point MZ > MSSB overall

Yeah i know about the SSB feadback in the manga it's not something you can pull causly like the anime, however what i am saying Vegeta got his ass kicked and went back to erath and spend time in TC so Black also had sometime to recover from using SSR

it's the same my friend, in the anime he was also healing wounds instantly but at some point after he healed so many times he's immortality just didn't work anymore, also in the manga they mentioned even if he have immortal body he still have limited stamina

Dunno if Black is different but Goku and Vegeta can't get zenaki boost anymore

 

[Vegan_Gains]

Learn basic Hiragana it clearly says Hakai

Because Hakai means "Destroy" moron, doesn't mean it's the same ability.
It actually means that.

Wooooow It changed the naaaaame

I guess anything that destroys stuff is hakai now. Is a kamehameha hakai? In your FLAWED logic, it probably is.

Manga goku has hakai and stop downplaying.

wtf, where did i say that a kamehameha is hakai, and where the **** did I say that Goku has no access to that ability, what I said was, it's a different technique with the same outcome(Existence Erasure).

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

I guess it's different in the sense that Instant Transmission and Instantaneous Movement are different. One is slightly more limited than the other, but result in the same thing.

 

[AnonymouXOtakuX]

Wow, its still going

 

[Fire_Emblem_Fan1991]

Composite goku when

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

I don't think that's going to be a thing anytime soon. Just saying.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Anyways... I personally believe Jiren is the mortal.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

@Seed yeah I believe that as well. A lot of hype has been built upon him.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

The hype around him, the clear indications of him being the strongest of Universe 11 ( Being far superior to Toppo, who is an candidate for GoD, plus the fact Goku literally said he was going to go beyond his limits just to fight Toppo at his maximum power ) , the fact that Jiren is the most mysterious combatant, and Whis' statement ( Since he mentions it when Goku asks his odds, chances are he knows that the person is participating in the tournament. Whis isn't one to use tactics to fool Goku , like Beerus did with Monaca, and gave it away several times. He has not lied once this entire series, so his word should be good ) .