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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 22

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Zamamasu (yes, Zamamasu) is now in his super edgy form, lol.

Also WHY DOES HE LOOK LIKE MY CHARACTER STOP STEALING TOEI SUDSUYAFDUWQ.
 
hey guys i have an explaination

to back up vegeta destroying a continuum:

bacck when the old kai said that goku and beerus fighting would destroy thee universe and leave it void, keep in mind if you destroy all of matter and eliminate all of energy, you still dont have a void in the universe, cuz this supposed empty universe still has a quantum foam which still has some activity, so therefore, to leave the whole universe a true void, you need to destroy the quantum foam- which is the spacetime of the universe itself


so maybe with this interpretation we can put goku ssjg vs beerus at low 2-C which in turn explains vegeta being able to destroy the hyperbolic time chamber (an entire spacetime continuum)
 
The Living Tribunal1 said:
hey guys i have an explaination

to back up vegeta destroying a continuum:

bacck when the old kai said that goku and beerus fighting would destroy thee universe and leave it void, keep in mind if you destroy all of matter and eliminate all of energy, you still dont have a void in the universe, cuz this supposed empty universe still has a quantum foam which still has some activity, so therefore, to leave the whole universe a true void, you need to destroy the quantum foam- which is the spacetime of the universe itself


so maybe with this interpretation we can put goku ssjg vs beerus at low 2-C which in turn explains vegeta being able to destroy the hyperbolic time chamber (an entire spacetime continuum)
I agree
 
Vegeta would also get an upgrade to infinite speed or immeasurable since he destroyed time and still left there with seemingly no trouble, but it's likely an outlier bro :)
 
Woah, that ain't no infinite speed. It will make him faster than Whis, and that would mean anyone who could blitz Vegeta would have beyond infinite speed which is absurd. They sure as hell were not moving instantly during their fight.
 
Betanight said:
Woah, that ain't no infinite speed. It will make him faster than Whis, and that would mean anyone who could blitz Vegeta would have beyond infinite speed which is absurd. They sure as hell were not moving instantly during their fight.
I agree that part would be an outlier
 
The Living Tribunal1 said:
hey guys i have an explaination
to back up vegeta destroying a continuum:

bacck when the old kai said that goku and beerus fighting would destroy thee universe and leave it void, keep in mind if you destroy all of matter and eliminate all of energy, you still dont have a void in the universe, cuz this supposed empty universe still has a quantum foam which still has some activity, so therefore, to leave the whole universe a true void, you need to destroy the quantum foam- which is the spacetime of the universe itself


so maybe with this interpretation we can put goku ssjg vs beerus at low 2-C which in turn explains vegeta being able to destroy the hyperbolic time chamber (an entire spacetime continuum)
Makes sense. Also, don't forget the statement about Beerus and Champa being capable of ending both universes as a side effect of their battle. The fact that Beerus was at least 10 times stronger than SSJB Goku back then, I wouldn't mind Beerus at Multi-Universe level.
 
Betanight said:
Woah, that ain't no infinite speed. It will make him faster than Whis, and that would mean anyone who could blitz Vegeta would have beyond infinite speed which is absurd. They sure as hell were not moving instantly during their fight.
Whis hasn't shown his full power and speed, he'd surely scale from this I am sure, also just because they aren't seemingly moving instantly doesn't mean it's an immediate downgrade, we don't see them displaying trillion FTL speed every moment of the fights nor see the universe he destroyed with every ki blast, besides if one part of the feat is an outlier ALL of it is an outlier, that's why we can't scale Roshi's moon buster to there speed since the AP is an outlier
 
Master Xar said:
Betanight said:
Woah, that ain't no infinite speed. It will make him faster than Whis, and that would mean anyone who could blitz Vegeta would have beyond infinite speed which is absurd. They sure as hell were not moving instantly during their fight.
Whis hasn't shown his full power and speed, he'd surely scale from this I am sure, also just because they aren't seemingly moving instantly doesn't mean it's an immediate downgrade, we don't see them displaying trillion FTL speed every moment of the fights nor see the universe he destroyed with every ki blast, besides if one part of the feat is an outlier ALL of it is an outlier, that's why we can't scale Roshi's moon buster to there speed since the AP is an outlier
....So what? If Whis had infinite speed how would he even suppress it? He'd be capable of travelling to any point instantaneously, which he clearly can't. If he could, there's absolutely no reason not to. Their speed is always slowed down for the audience, it's only logical. There wouldn't be any way to slow down infinitely fast movements, if they possessed infinite speed we should have seen just that, instantaneous movement scenes executed similar to Hit's, you can't slow that down...it's common sense. Also, there really isn't any proof that he could outpace his own shockwave. Many characters have destroyed a spacetime somewhat similarly, and clearly aren't infinite in speed...it just doesn't pose relevance to speed.
 
Whis hasn't shown his full power and speed, he'd surely scale from this I am sure, also just because they aren't seemingly moving instantly doesn't mean it's an immediate downgrade, we don't see them displaying trillion FTL speed every moment of the fights nor see the universe he destroyed with every ki blast, besides if one part of the feat is an outlier ALL of it is an outlier, that's why we can't scale Roshi's moon buster to there speed since the AP is an outlier
....So what? If Whis had infinite speed how would he even suppress it? He'd be capable of travelling to any point instantaneously, which he clearly can't. If he could, there's absolutely no reason not to. Their speed is always slowed down for the audience, it's only logical. There wouldn't be any way to slow down infinitely fast movements, if they possessed infinite speed we should have seen just that, instantaneous movement scenes executed similar to Hit's, you can't slow that down...it's common sense. Also, there really isn't any proof that he could outpace his own shockwave. Many characters have destroyed a spacetime somewhat similarly, and clearly aren't infinite in speed...it just doesn't pose relevance to speed.

Going along in full power is not exactly the best idea, Whis and Beerus especially Whis gave mostly been screwing around, what point would there be to showing Whis full out hightailing it with Beerus, it's like saying why a businessman doesn't go 140 mph to get to work, it's casual, only in a grave immergency would he use it, and we just learned Whis is an angel, he probably has a form infinitely faster than himself not, there are characters on this sight that have finite speed and in another Era/Form/incarnation have infinite or immeasurable speed


But we seen Goku and Vegeta power up and blocked Zamasu and Black's blast from killing The Kais in seemingly an instant, and if they both are infinite speed and displayed it all the time the fight we would have seen would be practically nothing

Many low 2-C destroy a timeline without being in it themselves not the same case with those who destroyed it while inside of it like Vegeta, You don't have to always show Dio and Hit moving instantly
 
I just realize these events with black Miet be what convince trunks or the supreme Kai of time that there is a need for a time patrol.
 
Master Xar said:
Whis hasn't shown his full power and speed, he'd surely scale from this I am sure, also just because they aren't seemingly moving instantly doesn't mean it's an immediate downgrade, we don't see them displaying trillion FTL speed every moment of the fights nor see the universe he destroyed with every ki blast, besides if one part of the feat is an outlier ALL of it is an outlier, that's why we can't scale Roshi's moon buster to there speed since the AP is an outlier
....So what? If Whis had infinite speed how would he even suppress it? He'd be capable of travelling to any point instantaneously, which he clearly can't. If he could, there's absolutely no reason not to. Their speed is always slowed down for the audience, it's only logical. There wouldn't be any way to slow down infinitely fast movements, if they possessed infinite speed we should have seen just that, instantaneous movement scenes executed similar to Hit's, you can't slow that down...it's common sense. Also, there really isn't any proof that he could outpace his own shockwave. Many characters have destroyed a spacetime somewhat similarly, and clearly aren't infinite in speed...it just doesn't pose relevance to speed. Going along in full power is not exactly the best idea, Whis and Beerus especially Whis gave mostly been screwing around, what point would there be to showing Whis full out hightailing it with Beerus, it's like saying why a businessman doesn't go 140 mph to get to work, it's casual, only in a grave immergency would he use it, and we just learned Whis is an angel, he probably has a form infinitely faster than himself not, there are characters on this sight that have finite speed and in another Era/Form/incarnation have infinite or immeasurable speed

But we seen Goku and Vegeta power up and blocked Zamasu and Black's blast from killing The Kais in seemingly an instant, and if they both are infinite speed and displayed it all the time the fight we would have seen would be practically nothing

Many low 2-C destroy a timeline without being in it themselves not the same case with those who destroyed it while inside of it like Vegeta, You don't have to always show Dio and Hit moving instantly

Not really. There is no harm in instantly transporting anywhere, if the issue was powering up to your full power, then that AoE can still be controlled via ki manipulation, nothing we haven't seen before. That analogy you made isn't very relevant considering jumping from a finite speed to a greater but still finite speed is NOT the same as what you're implying for Whis. Many diehard Saitama fans claim him to have infinite power despite using an unquantifiable percentage of his power, you have to realize that infinity doesn't have a percentage. Either these guys used zero energy, or infinite energy, nothing in between.

Yeah, like the questionable dark schneider speed increase in DKL form. If Whis completely transformed and was regarded as unmatched in speed or some shit then yes, infinite speed won't be argued if demonstrated unless constantly contradicted. This is fanfiction at this point however. Powering up to infinity in his base state is DIFFERENT by the way....

Meaningless, doesn't give them infinite speed because me or you perceived it as "seemingly" instant. Even moving below light speed over such a small distance would seem infinite. What's your point? Seriously, that renders Goku's instant transmission useless. This infinite speed upgrade you're hoping for is absolutely ridiculous.

And yes, you do have to show characters displaying infinite speed unless in some cases it's more so a specific hax or ability than natural speed.
 
Whis hasn't shown his full power and speed, he'd surely scale from this I am sure, also just because they aren't seemingly moving instantly doesn't mean it's an immediate downgrade, we don't see them displaying trillion FTL speed every moment of the fights nor see the universe he destroyed with every ki blast, besides if one part of the feat is an outlier ALL of it is an outlier, that's why we can't scale Roshi's moon buster to there speed since the AP is an outlier....So what? If Whis had infinite speed how would he even suppress it? He'd be capable of travelling to any point instantaneously, which he clearly can't. If he could, there's absolutely no reason not to. Their speed is always slowed down for the audience, it's only logical. There wouldn't be any way to slow down infinitely fast movements, if they possessed infinite speed we should have seen just that, instantaneous movement scenes executed similar to Hit's, you can't slow that down...it's common sense. Also, there really isn't any proof that he could outpace his own shockwave. Many characters have destroyed a spacetime somewhat similarly, and clearly aren't infinite in speed...it just doesn't pose relevance to speed. Going along in full power is not exactly the best idea, Whis and Beerus especially Whis gave mostly been screwing around, what point would there be to showing Whis full out hightailing it with Beerus, it's like saying why a businessman doesn't go 140 mph to get to work, it's casual, only in a grave immergency would he use it, and we just learned Whis is an angel, he probably has a form infinitely faster than himself not, there are characters on this sight that have finite speed and in another Era/Form/incarnation have infinite or immeasurable speed

But we seen Goku and Vegeta power up and blocked Zamasu and Black's blast from killing The Kais in seemingly an instant, and if they both are infinite speed and displayed it all the time the fight we would have seen would be practically nothing

Many low 2-C destroy a timeline without being in it themselves not the same case with those who destroyed it while inside of it like Vegeta, You don't have to always show Dio and Hit moving instantly

Not really. There is no harm in instantly transporting anywhere, if the issue was powering up to your full power, then that AoE can still be controlled via ki manipulation, nothing we haven't seen before. That analogy you made isn't very relevant considering jumping from a finite speed to a greater but still finite speed is NOT the same as what you're implying for Whis. Many diehard Saitama fans claim him to have infinite power despite using an unquantifiable percentage of his power, you have to realize that infinity doesn't have a percentage. Either these guys used zero energy, or infinite energy, nothing in between.

Yeah, like the questionable dark schneider speed increase in DKL form. If Whis completely transformed and was regarded as unmatched in speed or some shit then yes, infinite speed won't be argued if demonstrated unless constantly contradicted. This is fanfiction at this point however. Powering up to infinity in his base state is DIFFERENT by the way....

Meaningless, doesn't give them infinite speed because me or you perceived it as "seemingly" instant. Even moving below light speed over such a small distance would seem infinite. What's your point? Seriously, that renders Goku's instant transmission useless. This infinite speed upgrade you're hoping for is absolutely ridiculous.

And yes, you do have to show characters displaying infinite speed unless in some cases it's more so a specific hax or ability than natural speed.

Again I am only saying if for now at least, we can't say there will not be any harm in Whis moving instantly.


Then what quantifies as visual instant movement?

Look let's just leave it in the air now and see if Whis has a form or not, Whis and Beerus were pretty much using no power I am not saying there is an in-between, besides Whis himself said nothing rivals him in speed all the way back in the first few episodes
 
Yeah, but those are just baseless assumptions, I mean hows instant movement been catastrophic before? Lol

A battle that takes place in an instant would mean they possessed infinite speed for sure.

He still isn't suggested to be limitless though. They had to resort to Eastern Kaioshin's instant transmission to get to Zen'o's place. I highly doubt infinite speed will be a thing in DB, but don't expect this site for upgrades even if it was. It's already disappointing enough to see the amount of excuses being made against Vegeta's feat right now :p
 
Not the movement itself just the power, look I know about the ki control alright, it's not destruction, but it could have other ill effects

You mean like Krillin vs Jackie Chun right? Look we can't rely on battle speed interpretation to quantify speed regardless if it's finite/infinite speed interpretation or not.


Zeno's place is obviously not in the same dimension as Otherworld or the Mortal Realm, but let's put a halt for a second, outside of the Feat thread what other excuses are going on now?
 
It's amazing how every time a new Dragon Ball episode comes out, people desperatedly rush to upgrade the hell out of everyone and abuse of the Text Lenght Fallacy.
 
Master Xar said:
Not the movement itself just the power, look I know about the ki control alright, it's not destruction, but it could have other ill effects
You mean like Krillin vs Jackie Chun right? Look we can't rely on battle speed interpretation to quantify speed regardless if it's finite/infinite speed interpretation or not.


Zeno's place is obviously not in the same dimension as Otherworld or the Mortal Realm, but let's put a halt for a second, outside of the Feat thread what other excuses are going on now?
They've always shown to control that. SSJB Goku's manage to suppress himself to that of a Freiza soldier lol

Who knows, I thought Zen'o residing in the center of all the universes, not sure. Nothing, just some "let's wait for further info" ones now, which I think is completely pointless because this is as far and contained as we're going to get to 2-C. I don't know if people actually expect Toriyama to do something as flashy as a universe exploding. Kind of sad that even G+ communities consider such progress while here the DB high tiers here are going to remain at 3-A....
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
It's amazing how every time a new Dragon Ball episode comes out, people desperatedly rush to upgrade the hell out of everyone and abuse of the Text Lenght Fallacy.
Well it's a large fanbase so yeah lol @mat
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
It's amazing how every time a new Dragon Ball episode comes out, people desperatedly rush to upgrade the hell out of everyone and abuse of the Text Lenght Fallacy.
What can be said? Alot of new info given out in plenty of them lol
 
Vegeta's "2-C feat" could be an outliner, but more importantly how do we know Vegeta was inside the Time Chamber when it happen? He could had gotten out, get mad and blow the place off. Super Buu destroy it once too.
 
please stop talking about Low 2-C vegeta

Let us wait for a week, I have some points prepared, but I hope to gather more points in a week


If you people keep pushing for it now, things would get too toxic ffor me to bring out my geniune points next wekk

So the more you talk about Low 2-C vegeta now, the more you will be hurting the chances for Low 2-C vegeta


For now, we can push for 3-A vegeta for beating up ssjr goku black
 
Damn, at least we are getting somewhere with POSSIBLE Tier 2 DBS outside of Zen Chan, as for the episode, loved it, my boi Vegeta is a beast, hoping Vegito makes a comeback, would suck if the "Supreme God" got sealed away with Mafuba
 
What I am questioning is how does Touhou have "possible 4-B" and "possibly MFTL" characters from the interpretation of stars in one of the levels, but we can't get a possibly High 3-A or low 2-C depending on if Vegeta was in the chamber or not.
 
Master Xar said:
What I am questioning is how does Touhou have "possible 4-B" and "possibly MFTL" characters from the interpretation of stars in one of the levels, but we can't get a possibly High 3-A or low 2-C depending on if Vegeta was in the chamber or not.
Eh, we aren't staff members, its up to them, even I am skeptical if Vegeta was IN the Chamber when the building blew up, Vegeta could've exited the Chamber and then blew it up, I know, this is the same thing a desperate DB downplayer would say, I agree, Vegeta could've used too much power in a attack and destroyed the chamber somehow, but the feat is too vague, would've been nice to have some input by Dende, Popo or the Narrator, but beggers can't be choosers, anyway, I must concur with Tribunal, stop with Tier 2 DBS outside of Zeno, don't want to get into trouble with the staff members
 
I thought it was quite unreasonable to deny such a feat....The other thread just surprised me

Dragon Ball has always been about finite differences in power, never has that not been the case. There's no way to accept any 2-C feat this way, because it will be "infinitely times greater than what they've shown before". Despite the fact that AoE is a huge thing in Dragon Ball. Vegeta blew up the dimension from the inside, that's literally all there's to it.... Everyone outside here thought it was what it seemed like.

But hey, we'll continue waiting
 
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