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His wraith form doesn't seem to exist in the manga, his base is just that strong, the shot of him fighting SSB Goku and Vegeta was in his base iirc
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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100
- Thread starter Warren_Valion
- Start date
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He apparently just tossed Broly, and Beerus claims Gohan maintains superiority, so even though Broly is able to momentarily push back as this Controlled SSJ (which inherently boosts their power, see: Kale), Gohan is still the stronger fighter (by an unknown amount). Essentially, Gohan by the end of the Chapter is at least soft confirmed to be the strongest fighter. Though, given they’re all still in the same realm, that may put him beneath Black Frieza.
We’ll have too see how this all shapes out after the hiatus.
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In the Broly Ani-Comic it exists, so presumably that is there. It doesn’t matter regardless, though, because a Controlled LSSJ > Ikari LSSJ.
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All Beerus said was that Gohan had more control over his powers than broke did his, which means Gohan has the edge in skill, which would have been obvious from the start.
Physically speaking, broly seemed to be top, but is still rough around the edges as he's basically a newbie super Saiyan
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Goku is so forgetful, he even forgot that his own granddaughter exists, lol
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Based on the scans, it’s referring to Gohan having more control than Broly, not that Gohan is straight up stronger than Broly. And the scans seems to hint they are at least relative.
The main question I have though is: Is Broly’s Super Saiyan Controlled CSSJ, or a regular Super Saiyan. Beerus refers to it as just a Super Saiyan, and so does Gohan, with the only difference Gohan makes is that his Super Saiyan is stronger than anyone else’s and that’s it. He doesn’t mention any difference in its appearance or anything like that.
The main question I have though is: Is Broly’s Super Saiyan Controlled CSSJ, or a regular Super Saiyan. Beerus refers to it as just a Super Saiyan, and so does Gohan, with the only difference Gohan makes is that his Super Saiyan is stronger than anyone else’s and that’s it. He doesn’t mention any difference in its appearance or anything like that.
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Gohan says it's "different" not stronger, but he doesn't get any more specific than that, so unclear.
That said, I imagine that it's a Controlled version of his INITIAL Super Saiyan from the Broly movie, not his Legendary Super Saiyan form.
Because, as much as I hate to say it, Legendary Super Saiyan doens't exist in modern canon as an actual official form. Kale's is called SSJ (Berserk), Broly's is Super Saiyan (Full Power). Hell, we're even talking now about how Ikari seems to kinda sorta be involved in his version of SSJ. And unlike Z Broly, who could transform and moderate his forms at will (See Second Coming, the SSJ Form he used when he was given a Control Crown, etc.), these new generation LSSJs can't transform at will and have none of the traits the original one had outside of green hair (which wasn't even intended in DBS Broly and actually added in after, DBS Broly was just going to have an abnormally strong SSJ form, which you can see in basically every colored page of the DBS Manga with SSJ Broly in it-Yellow hair instead of just green), and an ever evolving power.
It's very likely, to me, that the term LSSJ was phased out in favor of maintaining the allure of Goku becoming the Legend on Namek, and Broly as some freak of nature (fitting his new Tarzan like backstory), that has nothing at all to do with the Mythos of the Saiyans. ESPECIALLY when you realize that apparently the Original Super Saiyan (Yamoshi) then became a wandering Spirit to find the Super Saiyan God (Goku). Meaning Greenie doesn't exist in any of the "Super" Saiyan Tales and Folklore compared to Toei/GT.
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Seems to just be regular, Beerus did point out that broly is basically newbie at it, I think Gohan was just shocked that a regular super Saiyan can be that strong
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Best case scenario, Goku with Ki Avatar > Gohan agenda
SirAlex09
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Bro gave up before accuracy drops so he doesn't get humiliatedBest case scenario, Goku with Ki Avatar > Gohan agenda
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Goku with superior instinct is so fast, his speed is able to teleport behind Gohan
Spinoirr
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Yeah, they need Dragon ball super hero keys
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Only until Gohan's rage boosted him up until he outpaced the speed of Ultra Instinct.
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I saw this, Gohan was so cool that when he reached high speeds he was able to create lightning around him.
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Gohan has the lightning around him constantly, now. Such as when he first kicked Ultra Instinct Goku in the first page.
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https://ragnarokscanlation.net/ it isn't official but good enough
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Yes, this effect is very beautiful
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Was Broly's SSJ yellow or green? I'm not sure about the manga, especially since they don't differentiate SSJ from Broly to others (there's no such thing as Legendary SSJ, just SSJ)
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Rez
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Looked like normal ssj to me not the green version
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Why can't Super Shenron manipulate reality on a 1-C scale? In the anime it is mentioned that he can bring back all the Universes, and we already know that Zeno can erase a timeline completely, while Super Shenron is capable of restoring all 12 Universes, it is said by Zeno that his potential for manipulating reality there is no limit to what he can do.
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Yes, he can restore universes, this ins´t Low 1-C
No limits fallacy
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The timeline is made up of these 12 Universes, if he manages to restore these 12 Universes, he's restoring a timeline.
No, it's not, it's said several times in the anime and mangá, it would only be fallacious if there were a contradiction.
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It was considered SSJ Full Power, in these (1) promos (2). This fact is doubled down on in their games, like Dragon Ball Legends, (something continued in XV2 and Dokkan {as an active skill}), their action figures, (directly sourced by Bandai as “Bandai Hobby”), it’s even outright labeled such by Shintani in standard conversation. It’s not called LSSJ by anyone but the audience and those who have the meta contextual knowledge that it’s LSSJ (green hair, big muscles, unlimited power), with a new, worse name.
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No? He is just restoring the normal universes, not the higher time dimension that encompass them
That´s not how a fallacy works, Super Shenron was stated to "not have limits" and, according to our fallacies page:
"No limits Fallacy is when someone states that because something has not demonstrated any limits, then it has none"
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He is quoted as being able to restore everything at once, there is not even a limit for him
Fallacies being cited several times in the work?
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Scan?
No, this one of the few cases, don´t try to make yourself the victim
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Full Power Super Saiyan*, I never denied the fact that Broly’s green haired form is called Full Power Super Saiyan, but I was merely sending a scan showing that it has been called “Legendary Super Saiyan” along “with Full Power Super Saiyan“ in promotional material. So that it was still valid to call the form either name.
Either way, it’s stated that Broly and Kale could be the Legendary Super Saiyan in the movie and manga respectfully even if you don’t wanna call the form that.
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Of course, that's when it's been confirmed several times that it's capable of fulfilling any wish in the multiverse, but let's limit it because it is.
It's us affirmed by the existence that knows the multiverse best, Zeno
It's even confirmed by the Daishinkan
It is affirmed by the Zuno that he is omniscient and can fulfill any wish
How is that fallacious?
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Now the work has become Greek mythology that loves hyperbole and fallacies 
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"No limits Fallacy is when someone states that because something has not demonstrated any limits, then it has none"
It's one of the few times where DB used a fallacy, don't try to victimize yourself²Now the work has become Greek mythology that loves hyperbole and fallacies
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1 Zuno is not omniscient since he didn't knew who Zamasu was when he went there to ask him about the super dragon balls
2 if you really want to go to the boat about him "being able to do anything" then why stop at tier 1? make him tier 0 as he can do "anything"
3 him being able to do literally anything is contradicted by the other bajilion statements about Zeno being impossible to be defeated no matter who it is, which includes Super Shenron, aka he can't do anything
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