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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
Does Canon Bardock have any feats from Dragon Ball Minus or is he just gonna get (roughly) Saiyan Saga scaling and it'll be a wrap?
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He doesn't, Toriyama stated that Bardock was the strongest low class saiyan but not enough to reach mid class, so i think he just scales above Raditz and that's It
 
ChronoULT said:
He doesn't, Toriyama stated that Bardock was the strongest low class saiyan but not enough to reach mid class, so i think he just scales above Raditz and that's It
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Raditz was a child at the time, so how can Bardock scale above a low class warrior who wasn’t in existence yet
 
StekFence said:
What’s the context of the statement for that?
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It's from Daizenshuu 7

"Goku's true older brother, and Bardock's eldest son. He was raised as a pure-blooded Saiyan, and so has a heartless personality, showing no compassion to his younger brother. Born as a lowest-level warrior, he lacks experience fighting to the death against strong opponents, and so his battle power is of the lowest level for a Saiyan. He also hasn't strengthened his weak spot, the tail, and is called "weakling Raditz" by his comrades."
Click to expand...
 
While I don't mind canon Bardock not being strong as his Toei counterpart it still kinda hurts he went from being comparable to King Vegeta (Toei) to being just above Radtiz (Canon), though narratively after the DBS Broly movie it makes sense Bardock had to get the Minus nerf since there was no way King Vegeta would allow a low class Saiyan (or Saiyan that isn't a noble blood) to be any where near him in terms of power level.
 
This in itself doesn’t make sense, given that when Bardock faces Gas in the Manga Gas comments that Bardock is ABOVE the Low-Class power range (before he even gets the Mid Fight Zenkai), and then Bardock recovers after that fight (logically getting another Zenkai). By all logic Bardock by the time he dies to Frieza should’ve at LEAST been Mid-Class.

Hell, Raditz being “Low-Class” didn’t make sense either when according to Toriyama he shares NAPPA’S rank. Further, he says Saiyans are capable of rank promotions via battle experience, but most of the logic in-verse (such as the beliefs of Vegeta, Nappa, and Raditz himself, just generally speaking), is that your birth rank determines everything. Like, the Saiyan Saga doesn’t make sense if promotions were a thing in Saiyan society.

(This is made especially egregious when you realize Bardock also regained his tail too, which makes Saiyan’s more powerful—Ala OG DB Kid Goku. So he also got a power boost from that as well.) Speaking of, I dunno how he got that back. Allegedly once you lose your tail after a certain level of power development, you don’t regain it because “body adaptations” and you “surpass the Oozaru” (this also doesn’t make sense, it’s a multiplier, but whatever).
 
Vietthai96 said:
I mean, Low-Class in Saiyan society isn't just about power, but probably also background. Vegeta default being Elite warrior the moment he was born if i'm not wrong
Click to expand...
Yeah it's their birth power that's measured, Goku has a PL of 2 and was marked a low class warrior even after he surpassed all the saiyan ranks
 
Toriyama's statement shouldn't be used because it predates all of the Granolah Saga scenes and Bardock's fight against Gas is just like a few days before Freeza blows up Vegeta. Take the two together and you get the interpretation that Bardock was the highest level Low-Class soldier up until he fought Gas, where he broke his limits. And I think that's also shown in resisting Freeza's Supernova with his power briefly (something not even Toei Bardock could do).
 
CryoTheMayo said:
Toriyama's statement shouldn't be used because it predates all of the Granolah Saga scenes and Bardock's fight against Gas is just like a few days before Freeza blows up Vegeta. Take the two together and you get the interpretation that Bardock was the highest level Low-Class soldier up until he fought Gas, where he broke his limits. And I think that's also shown in resisting Freeza's Supernova with his power briefly (something not even Toei Bardock could do).
Click to expand...
He's well above 10.000, I guess. He temporarily hold Frieza's Supernova, albeit not long, but impressive nonetheless.

Wouldn't this make Canon Bardock stronger than Toei Bardock?
 
NishizumiShiho said:
He's well above 10.000, I guess. He temporarily hold Frieza's Supernova, albeit not long, but impressive nonetheless.

Wouldn't this make Canon Bardock stronger than Toei Bardock?
Click to expand...
Toei has more absurd scaling so no. But if we're looking purely at them against the Supernova w/o scaling then:
Canon Bardock held up against Canon Freeza's Supernova way better than Toei Bardock did against Toei Freeza's Supernova.
 
NishizumiShiho said:
Wouldn't this make Canon Bardock stronger than Toei Bardock?
Click to expand...
If you wanna say in terms of Battle Power (or inverse) yes Canon Bardock would be superior to Base Toei Bardock (At the very very worst he's under 500,000 as a SSJ, so he'd still be superior at full power even if Canon Bardock was an Oozaru)

But in terms of scaling them crossverse...Canon DBZ reaches Dwarf Star level+ by First Form Frieza while Toei reaches it before Raditz arrives, that should say enough
 
Ednaxel2 said:
If you wanna say in terms of Battle Power (or inverse) yes Canon Bardock would be superior to Base Toei Bardock (At the very very worst he's under 500,000 as a SSJ, so he'd still be superior at full power even if Canon Bardock was an Oozaru)

But in terms of scaling them crossverse...Canon DBZ reaches Dwarf Star level+ by First Form Frieza while Toei reaches it before Raditz arrives, that should say enough
Click to expand...
Hmmmm, I guess so.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
Toei has more absurd scaling so no. But if we're looking purely at them against the Supernova w/o scaling then:
Canon Bardock held up against Canon Freeza's Supernova way better than Toei Bardock did against Toei Freeza's Supernova.
Click to expand...
Right, thanks for the answer.
Ednaxel2 said:
In short, Pilaf Gang Tier 0
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Based
 
Ummm, I recently look into both Porunga and Shenlong page and noticed Porunga only has Self-Sustenance Type 1 & 2, while Shenlong has all Types, why is that?
 
Phsccarvalho said:
I saw some people saying that Hakai is 4D. What is the reason? Is it UES or something else?
Click to expand...
Anyone to respond?

ChronoULT said:
Bardock. His Toei profile is on the Canon verse page, so we need to move it to the Toei verse and create a canon one
Click to expand...
Chrono, what did you think of the soul manipulation of destruction energy thing?

Another thing I thought was that Aura can be used to crush enemies, and generally gods of destruction use the aura of destruction energy when they are serious (Toppo and that fight to test the arena). And kind of the guys who resist the energy aren't affected by the aura.

Hakai Crush 😭
 
Guys, shouldn't the hakai in the manga have levels of ability? In comparison between Goku SSJB with his imperfect Hakai, base Vegeta who mastered the Hakai and Vegeta EU with the Hakaishin rings that makes him more efficient with the hakai.
 
Phsccarvalho said:
I saw some people saying that Hakai is 4D. What is the reason? Is it UES or something else?
Click to expand...

They can destroy a 2c structure with it, meaning it's 4d at minimum, ofcourse it also erased Dr mashirito, who had 5d EE resistance, but it's currently 4d right now

Cass5373 said:
Guys, shouldn't the hakai in the manga have levels of ability? In comparison between Goku SSJB with his imperfect Hakai, base Vegeta who mastered the Hakai and Vegeta EU with the Hakaishin rings that makes him more efficient with the hakai.
Click to expand...
Yea, but it would just be scaling, rather than layering, unless someone resisted a lesser version and was affected by a higher one.
 
RedReaper said:
This in itself doesn’t make sense, given that when Bardock faces Gas in the Manga Gas comments that Bardock is ABOVE the Low-Class power range (before he even gets the Mid Fight Zenkai), and then Bardock recovers after that fight (logically getting another Zenkai). By all logic Bardock by the time he dies to Frieza should’ve at LEAST been Mid-Class.

Hell, Raditz being “Low-Class” didn’t make sense either when according to Toriyama he shares NAPPA’S rank. Further, he says Saiyans are capable of rank promotions via battle experience, but most of the logic in-verse (such as the beliefs of Vegeta, Nappa, and Raditz himself, just generally speaking), is that your birth rank determines everything. Like, the Saiyan Saga doesn’t make sense if promotions were a thing in Saiyan society.

(This is made especially egregious when you realize Bardock also regained his tail too, which makes Saiyan’s more powerful—Ala OG DB Kid Goku. So he also got a power boost from that as well.) Speaking of, I dunno how he got that back. Allegedly once you lose your tail after a certain level of power development, you don’t regain it because “body adaptations” and you “surpass the Oozaru” (this also doesn’t make sense, it’s a multiplier, but whatever).
Click to expand...
I mean, that is just my interpretation but everything regarding Saiyan Ranking is a mess
CryoTheMayo said:
Toriyama's statement shouldn't be used because it predates all of the Granolah Saga scenes and Bardock's fight against Gas is just like a few days before Freeza blows up Vegeta. Take the two together and you get the interpretation that Bardock was the highest level Low-Class soldier up until he fought Gas, where he broke his limits. And I think that's also shown in resisting Freeza's Supernova with his power briefly (something not even Toei Bardock could do).
Click to expand...
Toriyama's statement is about Minus, which is after the battle against Gas, but It could have been retconned. In Minus, Bardock already has his tail back so likely several months have passed since then
 
Phsccarvalho said:
Anyone to respond?


Chrono, what did you think of the soul manipulation of destruction energy thing?

Another thing I thought was that Aura can be used to crush enemies, and generally gods of destruction use the aura of destruction energy when they are serious (Toppo and that fight to test the arena). And kind of the guys who resist the energy aren't affected by the aura.

Hakai Crush 😭
Click to expand...
I like the ideas, i have to search more about Power of Destruction in the anime
 
ChronoULT said:
Toriyama's statement is about Minus, which is after the battle against Gas, but It could have been retconned. In Minus, Bardock already has his tail back so likely several months have passed since then
Click to expand...
He also already has his tail back in the In-DBS Manga Flashback. It also seems like he had at least one mission without his tail in between those, as well as covering Goku’s growth in his incubator. So it definitely was at least months. Likely a closer to a year when you consider it usually takes that long (if not longer) for Saiyan Tails to regrow (OG DB Kid Goku and Z Kid Gohan). This time table fits with Goku’s physical growth, (as he goes from incubation to a fully capable of walking child), and the fact Raditz had got assigned to Vegeta’s squad waaaay later (as he can be been with Gine here.)
 
RedReaper said:
He also already has his tail back in the In-DBS Manga Flashback. It also seems like he had at least one mission without his tail in between those, as well as covering Goku’s growth in his incubator. So it definitely was at least months. Likely a closer to a year when you consider it usually takes that long (if not longer) for Saiyan Tails to regrow (OG DB Kid Goku and Z Kid Gohan). This time table fits with Goku’s physical growth, (as he goes from incubation to a fully capable of walking child), and the fact Raditz had got assigned to Vegeta’s squad waaaay later (as he can be been with Gine here.)
Click to expand...
Also I assume goku was born a while ago I the Granolah arc flash back and when planet Vegeta was destroyed goku was 3
 
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