Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

[TiltedFN]

JJ sent me a statement about it (I think it’s from a guidebook) about the Namek explosion being visible from across the galaxy, which perfectly corroborates what we saw in the anime, meaning it is consistent. It shouldn‘t even be an outlier considering only 50% Frieza and above scale to it.

yo send the statement

 

[MeiouHades]

yo send the statement

Here’s the source from Toei: https://lineup.toei-anim.co.jp/ja/tv/dragonz/episode/117/
Here‘s the image:

And yes, here’s the Kanji for “Ginga” (galaxy]:

 

[Omegabronic]

Yeah Toei Frieza’s 4-A feat being considered an outlier is dumb someone should make a crt for it one day fs

what is the argument for it not being an outlier again?

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Here’s the source from Toei: https://lineup.toei-anim.co.jp/ja/tv/dragonz/episode/117/
Here‘s the image:

And yes, here’s the Kanji for “Ginga” (galaxy]:

Don't think it means much. I mean the across the galaxy part is good but no idea if we can say the explosion was so bright it was able to be seen from any point in the galaxy.

 

[MeiouHades]

what is the argument for it not being an outlier again?

The fact that it being an outlier itself is dumb. You can call almost every feat an outlier with logic like this. You don’t see a single BoG-like feat in DBS, or even a statement, until maybe ToP. Is that an outlier as well?

 

[MeiouHades]

Don't think it means much. I mean the across the galaxy part is good but no idea if we can say the explosion was so bright it was able to be seen from any point in the galaxy.

That’s why we have the anime,

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Wasn't it disregarded because Namek's Core exploding is what caused it rather than Frieza and Frieza tanking only puts him at 4-B (Although he's currently High 4-C)

 

[MeiouHades]

Wasn't it disregarded because Namek's Core exploding is what caused it rather than Frieza and Frieza tanking only puts him at 4-B (Although he's currently High 4-C)

Busting a planet’s core won’t cause it to explode like confetti. Even if that was true, he survived that level of energy thrown at his face while he was beaten up, fried by a Ki attack (you fool!) and cut in half which speaks volumes about his durability. The same Frieza, being at max power, with much more HP and NOT being cut up, was being hurt by Goku’s attacks.

And no it was regarded as an outlier, the core busting argument never shown up as far as I remember.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

You don’t see a single BoG-like feat in DBS, or even a statement, until maybe ToP.

Are there any significantly lower feats relevant to Goku and co.? Because if not, then that is not an outlier, that is a really lonely dot on an empty graph.

 

[Omegabronic]

Busting a planet’s core won’t cause it to explode like confetti. Even if that was true, he survived that level of energy thrown at his face while he was beaten up, fried by a Ki attack (you fool!) and cut in half which speaks volumes about his durability. The same Frieza, being at max power, with much more HP and NOT being cut up, was being hurt by Goku’s attacks.

And no it was regarded as an outlier, the core busting argument never shown up as far as I remember.

considering that i saw a calc from someone surviving the moon exploding calced at like, high 7-C, i would request a calc before even thinking of doing anything

 

[Huesito88]

considering that i saw a calc from someone surviving the moon exploding calced at like, high 7-C, i would request a calc before even thinking of doing anything

There were already some I believe already made that did take into account Inverse Law (They might be outdated though)

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

If that's the case (Namek Frieza 4-B durability) then SSJ Trunks and by extension SSJ Goku should be 4-B since they can take him out. Toei Namek being at that level isn't really even out of nowhere, I mean even base Namek Goku's power could already reach multiple surrounding planets.

 

[Huesito88]

If that's the case (Namek Frieza 4-B durability) then SSJ Trunks and by extension SSJ Goku should be 4-B since they can take him out. Toei Namek being at that level isn't really even out of nowhere, I mean even base Namek Goku's power could already reach multiple surrounding planets.

I recall someone tried to make a thread and get that added a some ability for Goku, but that got rejected so...

 

[MeiouHades]

Are there any significantly lower feats relevant to Goku and co.? Because if not, then that is not an outlier, that is a really lonely dot on an empty graph.

Yes there are, there are many “anti-feats” and “anti-statements” in that time frame.

 

[MeiouHades]

I recall someone tried to make a thread and get that added a some ability for Goku, but that got rejected so...

I have an entire video that shows these bullshit feats and statements Toei just gave characters randomly. Not surprised it got rejected.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Yes there are, there are many “anti-feats” and “anti-statements” in that time frame.

You gonna post them or not?

 

[MeiouHades]

considering that i saw a calc from someone surviving the moon exploding calced at like, high 7-C, i would request a calc before even thinking of doing anything

That’s only necessary if the old calc was rejected for being inaccurate or not scaling Frieza to 4-A, it was rejected for being an outlier.

 

[MeiouHades]

Right now? No, I’m on lunch break.

You gonna post them or not?

 

[Omegabronic]

That’s only necessary if the old calc was rejected for being inaccurate or not scaling Frieza to 4-A, it was rejected for being an outlier.

what method does the old calc uses? if it is very old a re calc to a more "up to date standards" would be almost a necessity

 

[MeiouHades]

what method does the old calc uses? if it is very old a re calc to a more "up to date standards" would be almost a necessity

Honestly, I don’t remember. I’ve tried to find the calc but the link is almost nowhere to be found. I first discovered it in a thread and I can’t find that thread anymore.

 

[Huesito88]

This one yes?

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

what is the argument for it not being an outlier again?

That there’s nothing that’d make it an outlier except maybe Cell but I don’t think that’d consider It one since the characters scale above that feat

This one yes?

Yeah the blog owner calced it at 4-B but if it was calced the right way it’d be 4-A so it was rejected

 

[MeiouHades]

This one yes?

Yep and I just realized that Frieza and Goku stated that he had held back, so if the calc does come out to 4-A anyway, there’s no reason why Frieza wouldn’t be 4-A.

 

[Huesito88]

Yep and I just realized that Frieza and Goku stated that he had held back, so if the calc does come out to 4-A anyway, there’s no reason why Frieza wouldn’t be 4-A.

According to this thread and reading the comment section of the Blog from Kep. Some people did get 4-A and in the "rejection thread" it was mention that the feat probably is 4-A

 

[TiltedFN]

Seems like it wasn't really rejected, it was more so just banter, a proper thread hasn't been really made yet.

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

I was just thinking about something... so the dimension of swirling lights was rejected as a space-time since we don't know if it's universal in size, right? However, the current meta is that the macrocosm holds dimensional walls which are the fabric of space-time. Luffy tried arguing that the DOSL was a higher dimensional space due to some statements by the movie production team that the imagery for it was their attempt at creating super-dimensional imagery expressed in mathematics then converted to 3-D. However, Omega debunked that by pointing out how the DOSL was stated to be the dimensional walls themselves, thus the higher dimensional stuff can be attributed to how the fabric of space-time is obviously going to be a higher dimensional construct.
Translation Source: https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translation-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/post-5704252

With that momentum, space-time distorts, and the two of them are fighting within a cracked dimensional wall, colliding with even greater intensity. It's a collision of unprecedented power against power.

My point is, if the dimension of swirling lights is both a physical dimension and the fabric of space-time (despite time and its fabric being non-physical and all), wouldn't it be low 2-C under the basis that interpreting it as the fabric of space-time means it encompasses the universe (as opposed to being some planet-sized interdimensional space like ROSAT or Sugoroku) and is therefore at a tierable size?

 

[Huesito88]

Seems like it wasn't really rejected, it was more so just banter, a proper thread hasn't been really made yet.

Well that's why I put quotation marks on it

 

[TiltedFN]

I was just thinking about something... so the dimension of swirling lights was rejected as a space-time since we don't know if it's universal in size, right? However, the current meta is that the macrocosm holds dimensional walls which are the fabric of space-time. Luffy tried arguing that the DOSL was a higher dimensional space due to some statements by the movie production team that the imagery for it was their attempt at creating super-dimensional imagery expressed in mathematics then converted to 3-D. However, Omega debunked that by pointing out how the DOSL was stated to be the dimensional walls themselves, thus the higher dimensional stuff can be attributed to how the fabric of space-time is obviously going to be a higher dimensional construct.
Translation Source: https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translation-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/post-5704252

My point is, if the dimension of swirling lights is both a physical dimension and the fabric of space-time (despite time and its fabric being non-physical and all), wouldn't it be low 2-C under the basis that interpreting it as the fabric of space-time means it encompasses the universe (as opposed to being some planet-sized interdimensional space like ROSAT or Sugoroku) and is therefore at a tierable size?

They broke the barriers of the universe correct? So like, is DOSL inside universe 7 and servers as the dimension beyond the universe?

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

They broke the barriers of the universe correct? So like, is DOSL inside universe 7 and servers as the dimension beyond the universe?

Yeah, they were stated to traverse the living world to reach this dimension on account of their power being too much for the universe to handle. What I'm suggesting is, this whole time we've interpreted the DOSL as an alternate dimension in the macrocosm beyond the dimensional walls. However, it seems more like the DOSL is the dimensional walls themselves. Despite the fabric of space-time being more of an abstract/conceptual framework, Dragon Ball seems to treat the fabric of space-time for the macrocosm as a physical construct, like an extra-dimensional world of time. So it comes down to this question: under what interpretation would the fabric of space-time for a universe (or even multiple universes) be anything but a universe-sized construct?

 

[MeiouHades]

I was just thinking about something... so the dimension of swirling lights was rejected as a space-time since we don't know if it's universal in size, right? However, the current meta is that the macrocosm holds dimensional walls which are the fabric of space-time. Luffy tried arguing that the DOSL was a higher dimensional space due to some statements by the movie production team that the imagery for it was their attempt at creating super-dimensional imagery expressed in mathematics then converted to 3-D. However, Omega debunked that by pointing out how the DOSL was stated to be the dimensional walls themselves, thus the higher dimensional stuff can be attributed to how the fabric of space-time is obviously going to be a higher dimensional construct.
Translation Source: https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translation-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/post-5704252

My point is, if the dimension of swirling lights is both a physical dimension and the fabric of space-time (despite time and its fabric being non-physical and all), wouldn't it be low 2-C under the basis that interpreting it as the fabric of space-time means it encompasses the universe (as opposed to being some planet-sized interdimensional space like ROSAT or Sugoroku) and is therefore at a tierable size?

Lol this is literally what Ultima stated in the Buuhan upgrade thread, that the dimensional walls themselves should be Low 2-C since they encompass the entire (Living) Universe. The result of that is now 2-C Base Toei Goku.

 

[Omegabronic]

I was just thinking about something... so the dimension of swirling lights was rejected as a space-time since we don't know if it's universal in size, right?

no, it is still a space time

However, the current meta is that the macrocosm holds dimensional walls which are the fabric of space-time. Luffy tried arguing that the DOSL was a higher dimensional space due to some statements by the movie production team that the imagery for it was their attempt at creating super-dimensional imagery expressed in mathematics then converted to 3-D. However, Omega debunked that by pointing out how the DOSL was stated to be the dimensional walls themselves, thus the higher dimensional stuff can be attributed to how the fabric of space-time is obviously going to be a higher dimensional construct.
Translation Source: https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translation-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/post-5704252

My point is, if the dimension of swirling lights is both a physical dimension and the fabric of space-time (despite time and its fabric being non-physical and all), wouldn't it be low 2-C under the basis that interpreting it as the fabric of space-time means it encompasses the universe (as opposed to being some planet-sized interdimensional space like ROSAT or Sugoroku) and is therefore at a tierable size?

what was downgraded was the size and not the fact that it is a space time, however even if it is a universal sized space time......i don't see anyone really scaling to it outside of Broly and gogeta, i am a planning a scaling revision, ssj1 broly is said to be the "strongest enemy in history" and the dimension was accesed by the clash of him and broly, thus far superior to BoG goku and Beerus, with it being said to be "beyond the universe" and "more power than what the universe could handle" with even in fights between beerus and champa the dimension wasn't accessed

also, no, the DOSL is not the dimensional walls, it has dimensional walls inside of it, which every dimension would have by default

 

[Omegabronic]

Lol this is literally what Ultima stated in the Buuhan upgrade thread, that the dimensional walls themselves should be Low 2-C since they encompass the entire (Living) Universe. The result of that is now 2-C Base Toei Goku.

no that is not what he said, the dimensional walls are the fabric of space time, and since buuhan was affecting all of an universal area + the space time of it, the feat couldn't be lower than low 2-C

 

[Omegabronic]

They broke the barriers of the universe correct? So like, is DOSL inside universe 7 and servers as the dimension beyond the universe?

do we have any statement that would suggest that it is inside the universe at all?

 

[MeiouHades]

no, it is still a space time


what was downgraded was the size and not the fact that it is a space time,

I remember you stating that it is a literal dimensional wall

however even if it is a universal sized space time......i don't see anyone really scaling to it outside of Broly and gogeta, i am a planning a scaling revision, ssj1 broly is said to be the "strongest enemy in history" and the dimension was accesed by the clash of him and broly, thus far superior to BoG goku and Beerus
with it being said to be "beyond the universe" and "more power than what the universe could handle"

What exactly are you gonna scale? This is hella confusing.

with even in fights between beerus and champa the dimension wasn't accessed

You realize this is bad logic right? Beerus and Champa have NEVER gone all out, they aren’t allowed to, while Gogeta and Broly did. They may be above Beerus and Champa having a cat fight but that’s it. We scale MUI Goku to their clash but we still don’t say he’s above them.

also, no, the DOSL is not the dimensional walls, it has dimensional walls inside of it, which every dimension would have by default

Do you have your comments to thread on you right now?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I was just thinking about something... so the dimension of swirling lights was rejected as a space-time since we don't know if it's universal in size, right? However, the current meta is that the macrocosm holds dimensional walls which are the fabric of space-time. Luffy tried arguing that the DOSL was a higher dimensional space due to some statements by the movie production team that the imagery for it was their attempt at creating super-dimensional imagery expressed in mathematics then converted to 3-D. However, Omega debunked that by pointing out how the DOSL was stated to be the dimensional walls themselves, thus the higher dimensional stuff can be attributed to how the fabric of space-time is obviously going to be a higher dimensional construct.
Translation Source: https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translation-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/post-5704252

My point is, if the dimension of swirling lights is both a physical dimension and the fabric of space-time (despite time and its fabric being non-physical and all), wouldn't it be low 2-C under the basis that interpreting it as the fabric of space-time means it encompasses the universe (as opposed to being some planet-sized interdimensional space like ROSAT or Sugoroku) and is therefore at a tierable size?

Ahead of the release of "Dragon Ball Super: SUPER HERO", the new film in the "Dragon Ball" series, which is based on the mega-hit manga series by legendary manga artist Akira Toriyama, on April 22 as a Golden Week of the film, we will explain some highlights of the film here. The "Super" series is a manga anime series that began in 2015 and covers the 10-year gap between Majin Buu's defeat and the final chapter of the original story. The last film in the series, "Dragon Ball Super: Broly", released in 2018, was a huge success, grossing over a billion yen at the box office thanks to the amazing visuals of the battles between the Saiyans. As in the last film, also in "SUPER HERO", Akira Toriyama, the author of the original work, will be responsible for the script and character design. According to Akio lyoku, head of the Dragon Ball Room of Shueisha's Rights Division, the story outline for this film was completed during the production of Broly. "As Akira Toriyama took on a new challenge with 'Broly, he was quite excited about the final product and said 'Let's start working on the next one! In 2013, he wrote the story and screenplay for the first film in 17 years, "Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods", and it seemed to me that his desire to move these characters to the next level was very high. But he didn't want to force it. 'Broly' was the story of a final battle, so he wanted to do something a little different , and that's how this work began." (Mr Tyoku)

The main points were "introducing characters from the past and returning to the roots, the "Earth is in danger" stage, but as time went on, Goku and Vegeta grew stronger, and the scale of the battles increased, and the last movie took the form of a Universal Scale Battle." We wanted to write characters other than Goku and Vegeta. This time, Gohan and Piccolo play a very active role, and as we think about the story, we feel it's important to consider what the fans want. Of course, Gohan and Piccolo are popular characters, so we wanted them to play an active role in the film.

Iyoku says Toriyama started on the Super Hero script before the release of DBS: Broly. It's a change of pace from universal scale battles like the Broly movie and whatnot, with the story focusing on a threat to Earth and Gohan + Piccolo instead of Goku + Vegeta.

Quote where the feat of Broly and Gogeta is Universal scale

Translation credits Hermes

I have a few things about her and such, if anyone is curious you can ask me on Discord or something, I won't talk much here anymore. Then that's it...

 

[Omegabronic]

I remember you stating that it is a literal dimensional wall

When?

What exactly are you gonna scale? This is hella confusing.

Currently we have MUI goku and the GoD scaling to gogeta blue and broly, but broly even in ssj1 has statements of surpassing those

You realize this is bad logic right? Beerus and Champa have NEVER gone all out, they aren’t allowed to, while Gogeta and Broly did. They may be above Beerus and Champa having a cat fight but that’s it. We scale MUI Goku to their clash but we still don’t say he’s above them.

MUI is above the GoD yes, but the main point is that it was clash beyond people far stronger than BoG goku and such, so he scaling to it wouldn't make sense

Do you have your comments to thread on you right now?

Wdym?

Quote where the feat of Broly and Gogeta is Universal scale

Translation credits Hermes

I have a few things about her and such, if anyone is curious you can ask me on Discord or something, I won't talk much here anymore. Then that's it...

Well, to go beyond the universe while distorting it is universal no matter what

 

[MeiouHades]

When?

The thread you made. I remember reading something like that, maybe I’m misremembering

Currently we have MUI goku and the GoD scaling to gogeta blue and broly, but broly even in ssj1 has statements of surpassing those

Huh? MUI Goku and GoDs scaling to Broly and Gogeta? What exactly do Gogeta and Broly have that others can scale to…? It’s Goku MUI, Gogeta, Broly and the rest of the GoDs who scale to Beerus vs Champa feat. Even if Broly does surpass MUI Goku in raw AP, I’m pretty darn sure Cell Max or Gohan Beast surpass even that. You aren’t scaling anything you’re just trying to modify the scaling chain a little bit unless I’m mistaken?

MUI is above the GoD yes, but the main point is that it was clash beyond people far stronger than BoG goku and such, so he scaling to it wouldn't make sense

No one’s saying BoG Goku scales to that. Where’d you get that?

Well, to go beyond the universe while distorting it is universal no matter what

They’re already 6U 2-C, what change are you looking to make? At best you could add that as justification or support but I remember you arguing against it too a while back.

 

[Omegabronic]

The thread you made. I remember reading something like that, maybe I’m misremembering

Yeah you most certainly is

Huh? MUI Goku and GoDs scaling to Broly and Gogeta? What exactly do Gogeta and Broly have that others can scale to…? It’s Goku MUI, Gogeta, Broly and the rest of the GoDs who scale to Beerus vs Champa feat.

in out current scale we have MUI goku scaling above ssjB gogeta and Broly

Even if Broly does surpass MUI Goku in raw AP, I’m pretty darn sure Cell Max or Gohan Beast surpass even that.

they do yeah

You aren’t scaling anything you’re just trying to modify the scaling chain a little bit unless I’m mistaken?

that is what a scale revision would entail, yes

No one’s saying BoG Goku scales to that. Where’d you get that?

before the thread people were, hence why BoG goku scaled to 7 universal space times instead of 6

They’re already 6U 2-C, what change are you looking to make? At best you could add that as justification or support but I remember you arguing against it too a while back.

That BoG and anyone bellow them do not scale to reaching that dimension, that's all

 

[MeiouHades]

Okay I’m confused and lost. What is he saying? Can anyone explain?

 

[Omegabronic]

Okay I’m confused and lost. What is he saying? Can anyone explain?

What is the confusion about exactly?