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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

MeiouHades said:
JJ sent me a statement about it (I think it’s from a guidebook) about the Namek explosion being visible from across the galaxy, which perfectly corroborates what we saw in the anime, meaning it is consistent. It shouldn‘t even be an outlier considering only 50% Frieza and above scale to it.
Click to expand...
yo send the statement
 
TiltedFN said:
yo send the statement
Click to expand...
Here’s the source from Toei: https://lineup.toei-anim.co.jp/ja/tv/dragonz/episode/117/
Here‘s the image:
zRZaf.jpg


And yes, here’s the Kanji for “Ginga” (galaxy]:
QzDXn.jpg
 
omegabronic said:
what is the argument for it not being an outlier again?
Click to expand...
The fact that it being an outlier itself is dumb. You can call almost every feat an outlier with logic like this. You don’t see a single BoG-like feat in DBS, or even a statement, until maybe ToP. Is that an outlier as well?
 
Wasn't it disregarded because Namek's Core exploding is what caused it rather than Frieza and Frieza tanking only puts him at 4-B (Although he's currently High 4-C)
 
Adem_Warlock69 said:
Wasn't it disregarded because Namek's Core exploding is what caused it rather than Frieza and Frieza tanking only puts him at 4-B (Although he's currently High 4-C)
Click to expand...
Busting a planet’s core won’t cause it to explode like confetti. Even if that was true, he survived that level of energy thrown at his face while he was beaten up, fried by a Ki attack (you fool!) and cut in half which speaks volumes about his durability. The same Frieza, being at max power, with much more HP and NOT being cut up, was being hurt by Goku’s attacks.

And no it was regarded as an outlier, the core busting argument never shown up as far as I remember.
 
MeiouHades said:
Busting a planet’s core won’t cause it to explode like confetti. Even if that was true, he survived that level of energy thrown at his face while he was beaten up, fried by a Ki attack (you fool!) and cut in half which speaks volumes about his durability. The same Frieza, being at max power, with much more HP and NOT being cut up, was being hurt by Goku’s attacks.

And no it was regarded as an outlier, the core busting argument never shown up as far as I remember.
Click to expand...
considering that i saw a calc from someone surviving the moon exploding calced at like, high 7-C, i would request a calc before even thinking of doing anything
 
omegabronic said:
considering that i saw a calc from someone surviving the moon exploding calced at like, high 7-C, i would request a calc before even thinking of doing anything
Click to expand...
There were already some I believe already made that did take into account Inverse Law (They might be outdated though)
 
If that's the case (Namek Frieza 4-B durability) then SSJ Trunks and by extension SSJ Goku should be 4-B since they can take him out. Toei Namek being at that level isn't really even out of nowhere, I mean even base Namek Goku's power could already reach multiple surrounding planets.
RPReplay_Final1692731327_1.gif
 
SSJGeminiJJ said:
If that's the case (Namek Frieza 4-B durability) then SSJ Trunks and by extension SSJ Goku should be 4-B since they can take him out. Toei Namek being at that level isn't really even out of nowhere, I mean even base Namek Goku's power could already reach multiple surrounding planets.
RPReplay_Final1692731327_1.gif
Click to expand...
I recall someone tried to make a thread and get that added a some ability for Goku, but that got rejected so...
 
Huesito88 said:
I recall someone tried to make a thread and get that added a some ability for Goku, but that got rejected so...
Click to expand...
I have an entire video that shows these bullshit feats and statements Toei just gave characters randomly. Not surprised it got rejected.
 
omegabronic said:
considering that i saw a calc from someone surviving the moon exploding calced at like, high 7-C, i would request a calc before even thinking of doing anything
Click to expand...
That’s only necessary if the old calc was rejected for being inaccurate or not scaling Frieza to 4-A, it was rejected for being an outlier.
 
omegabronic said:
what method does the old calc uses? if it is very old a re calc to a more "up to date standards" would be almost a necessity
Click to expand...
Honestly, I don’t remember. I’ve tried to find the calc but the link is almost nowhere to be found. I first discovered it in a thread and I can’t find that thread anymore.
 
omegabronic said:
what is the argument for it not being an outlier again?
Click to expand...
That there’s nothing that’d make it an outlier except maybe Cell but I don’t think that’d consider It one since the characters scale above that feat
Huesito88 said:
This one yes?
Click to expand...
Yeah the blog owner calced it at 4-B but if it was calced the right way it’d be 4-A so it was rejected
 
I was just thinking about something... so the dimension of swirling lights was rejected as a space-time since we don't know if it's universal in size, right? However, the current meta is that the macrocosm holds dimensional walls which are the fabric of space-time. Luffy tried arguing that the DOSL was a higher dimensional space due to some statements by the movie production team that the imagery for it was their attempt at creating super-dimensional imagery expressed in mathematics then converted to 3-D. However, Omega debunked that by pointing out how the DOSL was stated to be the dimensional walls themselves, thus the higher dimensional stuff can be attributed to how the fabric of space-time is obviously going to be a higher dimensional construct.
Translation Source: https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translation-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/post-5704252
With that momentum, space-time distorts, and the two of them are fighting within a cracked dimensional wall, colliding with even greater intensity. It's a collision of unprecedented power against power.
Click to expand...
My point is, if the dimension of swirling lights is both a physical dimension and the fabric of space-time (despite time and its fabric being non-physical and all), wouldn't it be low 2-C under the basis that interpreting it as the fabric of space-time means it encompasses the universe (as opposed to being some planet-sized interdimensional space like ROSAT or Sugoroku) and is therefore at a tierable size?
 
ProfectusInfinity said:
I was just thinking about something... so the dimension of swirling lights was rejected as a space-time since we don't know if it's universal in size, right? However, the current meta is that the macrocosm holds dimensional walls which are the fabric of space-time. Luffy tried arguing that the DOSL was a higher dimensional space due to some statements by the movie production team that the imagery for it was their attempt at creating super-dimensional imagery expressed in mathematics then converted to 3-D. However, Omega debunked that by pointing out how the DOSL was stated to be the dimensional walls themselves, thus the higher dimensional stuff can be attributed to how the fabric of space-time is obviously going to be a higher dimensional construct.
Translation Source: https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translation-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/post-5704252

My point is, if the dimension of swirling lights is both a physical dimension and the fabric of space-time (despite time and its fabric being non-physical and all), wouldn't it be low 2-C under the basis that interpreting it as the fabric of space-time means it encompasses the universe (as opposed to being some planet-sized interdimensional space like ROSAT or Sugoroku) and is therefore at a tierable size?
Click to expand...
They broke the barriers of the universe correct? So like, is DOSL inside universe 7 and servers as the dimension beyond the universe?
 
TiltedFN said:
They broke the barriers of the universe correct? So like, is DOSL inside universe 7 and servers as the dimension beyond the universe?
Click to expand...
Yeah, they were stated to traverse the living world to reach this dimension on account of their power being too much for the universe to handle. What I'm suggesting is, this whole time we've interpreted the DOSL as an alternate dimension in the macrocosm beyond the dimensional walls. However, it seems more like the DOSL is the dimensional walls themselves. Despite the fabric of space-time being more of an abstract/conceptual framework, Dragon Ball seems to treat the fabric of space-time for the macrocosm as a physical construct, like an extra-dimensional world of time. So it comes down to this question: under what interpretation would the fabric of space-time for a universe (or even multiple universes) be anything but a universe-sized construct?
 
ProfectusInfinity said:
I was just thinking about something... so the dimension of swirling lights was rejected as a space-time since we don't know if it's universal in size, right? However, the current meta is that the macrocosm holds dimensional walls which are the fabric of space-time. Luffy tried arguing that the DOSL was a higher dimensional space due to some statements by the movie production team that the imagery for it was their attempt at creating super-dimensional imagery expressed in mathematics then converted to 3-D. However, Omega debunked that by pointing out how the DOSL was stated to be the dimensional walls themselves, thus the higher dimensional stuff can be attributed to how the fabric of space-time is obviously going to be a higher dimensional construct.
Translation Source: https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translation-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/post-5704252

My point is, if the dimension of swirling lights is both a physical dimension and the fabric of space-time (despite time and its fabric being non-physical and all), wouldn't it be low 2-C under the basis that interpreting it as the fabric of space-time means it encompasses the universe (as opposed to being some planet-sized interdimensional space like ROSAT or Sugoroku) and is therefore at a tierable size?
Click to expand...
Lol this is literally what Ultima stated in the Buuhan upgrade thread, that the dimensional walls themselves should be Low 2-C since they encompass the entire (Living) Universe. The result of that is now 2-C Base Toei Goku.
 
ProfectusInfinity said:
I was just thinking about something... so the dimension of swirling lights was rejected as a space-time since we don't know if it's universal in size, right?
Click to expand...
no, it is still a space time

ProfectusInfinity said:
However, the current meta is that the macrocosm holds dimensional walls which are the fabric of space-time. Luffy tried arguing that the DOSL was a higher dimensional space due to some statements by the movie production team that the imagery for it was their attempt at creating super-dimensional imagery expressed in mathematics then converted to 3-D. However, Omega debunked that by pointing out how the DOSL was stated to be the dimensional walls themselves, thus the higher dimensional stuff can be attributed to how the fabric of space-time is obviously going to be a higher dimensional construct.
Translation Source: https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translation-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/post-5704252

My point is, if the dimension of swirling lights is both a physical dimension and the fabric of space-time (despite time and its fabric being non-physical and all), wouldn't it be low 2-C under the basis that interpreting it as the fabric of space-time means it encompasses the universe (as opposed to being some planet-sized interdimensional space like ROSAT or Sugoroku) and is therefore at a tierable size?
Click to expand...
what was downgraded was the size and not the fact that it is a space time, however even if it is a universal sized space time......i don't see anyone really scaling to it outside of Broly and gogeta, i am a planning a scaling revision, ssj1 broly is said to be the "strongest enemy in history" and the dimension was accesed by the clash of him and broly, thus far superior to BoG goku and Beerus, with it being said to be "beyond the universe" and "more power than what the universe could handle" with even in fights between beerus and champa the dimension wasn't accessed

also, no, the DOSL is not the dimensional walls, it has dimensional walls inside of it, which every dimension would have by default
 
MeiouHades said:
Lol this is literally what Ultima stated in the Buuhan upgrade thread, that the dimensional walls themselves should be Low 2-C since they encompass the entire (Living) Universe. The result of that is now 2-C Base Toei Goku.
Click to expand...
no that is not what he said, the dimensional walls are the fabric of space time, and since buuhan was affecting all of an universal area + the space time of it, the feat couldn't be lower than low 2-C
 
omegabronic said:
no, it is still a space time


what was downgraded was the size and not the fact that it is a space time,
Click to expand...
I remember you stating that it is a literal dimensional wall
omegabronic said:
however even if it is a universal sized space time......i don't see anyone really scaling to it outside of Broly and gogeta, i am a planning a scaling revision, ssj1 broly is said to be the "strongest enemy in history" and the dimension was accesed by the clash of him and broly, thus far superior to BoG goku and Beerus
with it being said to be "beyond the universe" and "more power than what the universe could handle"
Click to expand...
What exactly are you gonna scale? This is hella confusing.
omegabronic said:
with even in fights between beerus and champa the dimension wasn't accessed
Click to expand...
You realize this is bad logic right? Beerus and Champa have NEVER gone all out, they aren’t allowed to, while Gogeta and Broly did. They may be above Beerus and Champa having a cat fight but that’s it. We scale MUI Goku to their clash but we still don’t say he’s above them.
omegabronic said:
also, no, the DOSL is not the dimensional walls, it has dimensional walls inside of it, which every dimension would have by default
Click to expand...
Do you have your comments to thread on you right now?
 
ProfectusInfinity said:
I was just thinking about something... so the dimension of swirling lights was rejected as a space-time since we don't know if it's universal in size, right? However, the current meta is that the macrocosm holds dimensional walls which are the fabric of space-time. Luffy tried arguing that the DOSL was a higher dimensional space due to some statements by the movie production team that the imagery for it was their attempt at creating super-dimensional imagery expressed in mathematics then converted to 3-D. However, Omega debunked that by pointing out how the DOSL was stated to be the dimensional walls themselves, thus the higher dimensional stuff can be attributed to how the fabric of space-time is obviously going to be a higher dimensional construct.
Translation Source: https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translation-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/post-5704252

My point is, if the dimension of swirling lights is both a physical dimension and the fabric of space-time (despite time and its fabric being non-physical and all), wouldn't it be low 2-C under the basis that interpreting it as the fabric of space-time means it encompasses the universe (as opposed to being some planet-sized interdimensional space like ROSAT or Sugoroku) and is therefore at a tierable size?
Click to expand...
Ahead of the release of "Dragon Ball Super: SUPER HERO", the new film in the "Dragon Ball" series, which is based on the mega-hit manga series by legendary manga artist Akira Toriyama, on April 22 as a Golden Week of the film, we will explain some highlights of the film here. The "Super" series is a manga anime series that began in 2015 and covers the 10-year gap between Majin Buu's defeat and the final chapter of the original story. The last film in the series, "Dragon Ball Super: Broly", released in 2018, was a huge success, grossing over a billion yen at the box office thanks to the amazing visuals of the battles between the Saiyans. As in the last film, also in "SUPER HERO", Akira Toriyama, the author of the original work, will be responsible for the script and character design. According to Akio lyoku, head of the Dragon Ball Room of Shueisha's Rights Division, the story outline for this film was completed during the production of Broly. "As Akira Toriyama took on a new challenge with 'Broly, he was quite excited about the final product and said 'Let's start working on the next one! In 2013, he wrote the story and screenplay for the first film in 17 years, "Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods", and it seemed to me that his desire to move these characters to the next level was very high. But he didn't want to force it. 'Broly' was the story of a final battle, so he wanted to do something a little different , and that's how this work began." (Mr Tyoku)
Click to expand...

The main points were "introducing characters from the past and returning to the roots, the "Earth is in danger" stage, but as time went on, Goku and Vegeta grew stronger, and the scale of the battles increased, and the last movie took the form of a Universal Scale Battle." We wanted to write characters other than Goku and Vegeta. This time, Gohan and Piccolo play a very active role, and as we think about the story, we feel it's important to consider what the fans want. Of course, Gohan and Piccolo are popular characters, so we wanted them to play an active role in the film.
Click to expand...

Iyoku says Toriyama started on the Super Hero script before the release of DBS: Broly. It's a change of pace from universal scale battles like the Broly movie and whatnot, with the story focusing on a threat to Earth and Gohan + Piccolo instead of Goku + Vegeta.
Click to expand...

Quote where the feat of Broly and Gogeta is Universal scale

Translation credits Hermes

I have a few things about her and such, if anyone is curious you can ask me on Discord or something, I won't talk much here anymore. Then that's it...
 
MeiouHades said:
I remember you stating that it is a literal dimensional wall
Click to expand...
When?


MeiouHades said:
What exactly are you gonna scale? This is hella confusing.
Click to expand...
Currently we have MUI goku and the GoD scaling to gogeta blue and broly, but broly even in ssj1 has statements of surpassing those

MeiouHades said:
You realize this is bad logic right? Beerus and Champa have NEVER gone all out, they aren’t allowed to, while Gogeta and Broly did. They may be above Beerus and Champa having a cat fight but that’s it. We scale MUI Goku to their clash but we still don’t say he’s above them.
Click to expand...
MUI is above the GoD yes, but the main point is that it was clash beyond people far stronger than BoG goku and such, so he scaling to it wouldn't make sense

MeiouHades said:
Do you have your comments to thread on you right now?
Click to expand...
Wdym?


LuffyRuffy46307 said:
Quote where the feat of Broly and Gogeta is Universal scale

Translation credits Hermes

I have a few things about her and such, if anyone is curious you can ask me on Discord or something, I won't talk much here anymore. Then that's it...
Click to expand...
Well, to go beyond the universe while distorting it is universal no matter what
 
omegabronic said:
When?
Click to expand...
The thread you made. I remember reading something like that, maybe I’m misremembering
omegabronic said:
Currently we have MUI goku and the GoD scaling to gogeta blue and broly, but broly even in ssj1 has statements of surpassing those
Click to expand...
Huh? MUI Goku and GoDs scaling to Broly and Gogeta? What exactly do Gogeta and Broly have that others can scale to…? It’s Goku MUI, Gogeta, Broly and the rest of the GoDs who scale to Beerus vs Champa feat. Even if Broly does surpass MUI Goku in raw AP, I’m pretty darn sure Cell Max or Gohan Beast surpass even that. You aren’t scaling anything you’re just trying to modify the scaling chain a little bit unless I’m mistaken?
omegabronic said:
MUI is above the GoD yes, but the main point is that it was clash beyond people far stronger than BoG goku and such, so he scaling to it wouldn't make sense
Click to expand...
No one’s saying BoG Goku scales to that. Where’d you get that?
omegabronic said:
Well, to go beyond the universe while distorting it is universal no matter what
Click to expand...
They’re already 6U 2-C, what change are you looking to make? At best you could add that as justification or support but I remember you arguing against it too a while back.
 
MeiouHades said:
The thread you made. I remember reading something like that, maybe I’m misremembering
Click to expand...
Yeah you most certainly is

MeiouHades said:
Huh? MUI Goku and GoDs scaling to Broly and Gogeta? What exactly do Gogeta and Broly have that others can scale to…? It’s Goku MUI, Gogeta, Broly and the rest of the GoDs who scale to Beerus vs Champa feat.
Click to expand...
in out current scale we have MUI goku scaling above ssjB gogeta and Broly

MeiouHades said:
Even if Broly does surpass MUI Goku in raw AP, I’m pretty darn sure Cell Max or Gohan Beast surpass even that.
Click to expand...
they do yeah

MeiouHades said:
You aren’t scaling anything you’re just trying to modify the scaling chain a little bit unless I’m mistaken?
Click to expand...
that is what a scale revision would entail, yes

MeiouHades said:
No one’s saying BoG Goku scales to that. Where’d you get that?
Click to expand...
before the thread people were, hence why BoG goku scaled to 7 universal space times instead of 6

MeiouHades said:
They’re already 6U 2-C, what change are you looking to make? At best you could add that as justification or support but I remember you arguing against it too a while back.
Click to expand...
That BoG and anyone bellow them do not scale to reaching that dimension, that's all
 
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