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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

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In the arc Ki being named as "Spirit power" or the power of Spirit, spiritual aspect.
Or Vegeta's statement of Moro being able to absorb "souls", etc.

Obviously Mi is Life force but with a considerable spiritual component, which in the saga was described as a "soul"
 
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God900 said:
DBS manga, Moro arc aka Yadrats and Vegeta, Spirit fission, a Direct statement
Click to expand...
i already knew the claims. i was just waiting for you to reply.
God900 said:
In the arc Ki being named as "Spirit power" or the power of Spirit, spiritual aspect.
Click to expand...
Ki is never referred to "the power of spirit" or claimed to possess spiritual aspects.

The Yardrats explicitly state that "What we call spirit, Goku called chi"; the word "spirit" here is merely another name for Ki. In fact, 気, the Japanese word for Ki, directly translates to "spirit". There are no esoteric implications present in their usage of the word. Their usage of the word "spirit" is purely etymological. Heck, their usage may even be in reference to "fighting spirit", as "courage" — also deriving from the Japanese word 気, yūki (coincidence?) — is touted as one of the three components of Ki, alongside energy and mind.

"Spirit Control"? Ki Control.
God900 said:
Or Vegeta's statement of Moro being able to absorb "souls", etc.
Click to expand...
"All that spirit that you stole for yourself... those souls. That life energy. I've simply liberated it."
The "those souls" part is in reference to the lives Moro took. "Those poor souls", "lost souls", "their souls are gone", et cetera. Vegeta is not using the word "soul" literally. He is explicitly, as revealed in the very next sentence, referring to the life force of the innocents that Moro killed. Furthermore, Pybara stated that, even after their life energies were returned to their planets, the aliens that Moro killed were dead for far too long to be revived, which suggests that their souls had already moved onto the afterlife while their bodies withered away, which is supported by Dende's comments that the Namekians were only able to resurrect after the Forced Spirit Fission because their Dragon Balls preserved their bodies.

Besides, Ki and spiritual energy being one and the same would break the conventions established by the original series, as spirits there were harmless and incapable of fighting in the Other World, as their bodies were stripped away from them after being judged by King Yemma. That is why Goku retaining his body after the battle with Raditz was such an extraordinary happenstance.
 
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Nullflowerblush said:
i already knew the claims. i was just waiting for you to reply.

Ki is never referred to "the power of spirit" or claimed to possess spiritual aspects.

The Yardrats explicitly state that "What we call spirit, Goku called chi"; the word "spirit" here is merely another name for Ki. In fact, 気, the Japanese word for Ki, directly translates to "spirit". There are no esoteric implications present in their usage of the word. Their usage of the word "spirit" is purely etymological. Heck, their usage may even be in reference to "fighting spirit", as "courage" — also deriving from the Japanese word 気, yūki (coincidence?) — is touted as one of the three components of Ki, alongside energy and mind.

"Spirit Control"? Ki Control.

"All that spirit that you stole for yourself... those souls. That life energy. I've simply liberated it."
The "those souls" part is in reference to the lives Moro took. "Those poor souls", "lost souls", "their souls are gone", et cetera. Vegeta is not using the word "soul" literally. He is explicitly, as revealed in the very next sentence, referring to the life force of the innocents that Moro killed. Furthermore, Pybara stated that, even after their life energies were returned to their planets, the aliens that Moro killed were dead for far too long to be revived, which suggests that their souls had already moved onto the afterlife while their bodies withered away, which is supported by Dende's comments that the Namekians were only able to resurrect after the Forced Spirit Fission because their Dragon Balls preserved their bodies.

Besides, Ki and spiritual energy being one and the same would break the conventions established by the original series, as spirits there were harmless and incapable of fighting in the Other World, as their bodies were stripped away from them after being judged by King Yemma. That is why Goku retaining his body after the battle with Raditz was such an extraordinary happenstance.
Click to expand...
Ok then, Moro has got Soul absorption listed on his profile tho🙄
 
I'm sure is stated in the Daizenshu.

Ki as a concept that includes such spiritual powers as energy such as
(元気, Genki) internal spiritual energy manifestation of the momentum possessed by all living beings capable of sentience in the Dragon Ball franchise .

It is one of the three main components of ki , along with yuki and shoki

Hence this is why the Spirit Bomb (元げん気き玉だま, Genki-dama, lit. "Energy Sphere"), is also known as the "Spirit Blast" in some censored English.

Vigor (Genki) is the energy which is required to form the Genki-dama and derived techniques, for which the Genki-dama gains greater power not because of the power or the amount of ki possessed by those who donate their energy, but because of the force of his spirit and the faith that is had in the user of the Genki-dama. Which is why it cannot be used for destructive purposes in the same way as ki or against pure-hearted individuals (those who have a strong benign or evil spirit).
 
Nullflowerblush said:
What.
I'm lost.
Click to expand...
That on of the components of Ki is Spiritual energy (Genki), which uses the power of the "Spirit".
And that explains his multiple translations being refered as "Spirit Bomb", "Spirit Bomb" and the like

And that it explains that those with a "Evil Spirit" can't use the technique.
 
God900 said:
I'm sure is stated in the Daizenshu.

Ki as a concept that includes such spiritual powers as energy such as
(元気, Genki) internal spiritual energy manifestation of the momentum possessed by all living beings capable of sentience in the Dragon Ball franchise .

It is one of the three main components of ki , along with yuki and shoki

Hence this is why the Spirit Bomb (元げん気き玉だま, Genki-dama, lit. "Energy Sphere"), is also known as the "Spirit Blast" in some censored English.

Vigor (Genki) is the energy which is required to form the Genki-dama and derived techniques, for which the Genki-dama gains greater power not because of the power or the amount of ki possessed by those who donate their energy, but because of the force of his spirit and the faith that is had in the user of the Genki-dama. Which is why it cannot be used for destructive purposes in the same way as ki or against pure-hearted individuals (those who have a strong benign or evil spirit).
Click to expand...
Ki also has an abstract component (emotions. The color of your Ki is different if you're evil or pure hearted, for example)
 
If you could link to the pages of the Daizenshuu that mention the "internal spiritual energy manifestation of the momentum possessed by all living beings" and "the force of his spirit and the faith that is had in the user of the Genki-dama". Last time I checked, plants, animals, and the Sun cannot express faith or emotions, and Goku derives ample amounts of energy from them. Last time I checked, donating to the Spirit Bomb drained the patron of their energy and stamina. Last time I checked, morale has never boosted the Spirit Bomb once; if morale was all they needed to boost the Spirit Bomb, Jiren would've fallen.

Besides, since when were emotions tied to the soul? Seems more like a mind thing.
Also, "cannot be used for destructive purposes in the same way as ki"? The Spirit Bomb explodes. The Spirit Bomb left a clean-shaven crater on the Supreme Kai's Planet. King Kai even warned Goku not to accidentally drop the Spirit Bomb, because he could end up annihilating Earth.

Also, also, the original name is "Genkidama", which translates to "energy sphere". The original name has nothing to do with "spirit", just energy.
 
hey real quick
where exactly is it stated in the manga that the spirit bomb requires a pure heart to be used?
i can't actually find it anywhere
 
Nullflowerblush said:
hey real quick
where exactly is it stated in the manga that the spirit bomb requires a pure heart to be used?
i can't actually find it anywhere
Click to expand...
it was Toei cannon for that.

it came from android 13 movie. in the manga it can only destroy evil or harm not pure people and can be reflected by a pure heart people like gohan
 
Spinoirr said:
yeah there is no tech that can store ki, the androids have artificial ki
Click to expand...
Is the guide not talking about that thing Babidi made? Since this does look like a machine
"The Energy-Suction Device[2] (エネルギー吸引機 Enerugī Kyūinki) is an energy device that allows the absorption of energy."
206-280179122916-27-51-.JPG.webp
It stores ki (thats what the dragon ball wiki says at least)
 
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