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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100
- Thread starter Warren_Valion
- Start date
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Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,786
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Is there now?
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let's be honest
buu is evil as hell, if he wanted to destroy the universe, and he could, why didn't he just do it?
also when was that stated
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android 16 mentioned a complete form, aka perfect cell, not imperfect
we know it's overtime because cell was going planet by planet iirc
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A-16 has no idea how strong perfect cell would be, and at best he was only talking about cell would be after absorbing 17, aka semi-perfect cell. Still even if it was talking about perfect cell, he isn't solar system level on the site
and how do we know that? my dude with that amount of headcanon you could publish an alternative DB manga on your own
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The energy of the entire universe combined is 4-A tho, and even then it is only that high if you take enough energy to make all the stars in the universe die out........see the problem?
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We also don't have a statement that it would be at once either
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true, we dont, but we don't have one saying its over time either. and given the AP ratings of characters like imperfect and perfect cell, the over time stuff makes little sense cuz he cant go around destroying the universe one neutron star after another (that the wiki unironically believes in the case for all pre-DBS universe busting statements) nor does he have the travel speed for it
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Hmmm.
Ignoring Toei and focusing on the manga, why would Toriyama write Cell, in his final form, before the final ultimate clash, specifically saying that he has gathered enough chi to destroy "not JUST the Earth, but the entire Solar System"?
What do you think he was trying to convey? Becomes especially pertinent if Semi Perfect Cell could just one shot a universe and the like.
Ignoring Toei and focusing on the manga, why would Toriyama write Cell, in his final form, before the final ultimate clash, specifically saying that he has gathered enough chi to destroy "not JUST the Earth, but the entire Solar System"?
What do you think he was trying to convey? Becomes especially pertinent if Semi Perfect Cell could just one shot a universe and the like.
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Just because cell was going to destroy the solar system with that attack, doesn't mean he isn't capable of being universal, he said with the energy he had gathered at that point in time, it would be enough to destroy the solar system. But universal destruction even if it was overtime is 4-A. And with cells speed, him being solar system only is disgusting downplay. Same shit with buu.
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that's pretty much a non-statement considering Cell is way above baseline solar system level.
i'm not saying he one shots it, i dont think you can argue that in the manga at least until Buu. but i do think his current speed and AP make no sense based off of the manga panel i just sent. like it legit makes 0 sense. Either that statement is cap or imperfect Cell isn't hypersonic travel speed + 4-C
Hasty12345
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If Cell is immortal it’s not impossible for him to gather enough energy in a Kamehameha to blow up the universe.
But given it took him time to charge up to SS level in a much stronger form, it’s clearly not a feasible combat applicable feat.
But given it took him time to charge up to SS level in a much stronger form, it’s clearly not a feasible combat applicable feat.
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Well........he would have the lifespam for it, if he wanted, i guess he would be able to do it, and he is like, Solar System level, he wouldn't even need to travel much, just blasting a bunch would do it
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CopeWell........he would have the lifespam for it, if he wanted, i guess he would be able to do it, and he is like, Solar System level, he wouldn't even need to travel much, just blasting a bunch would do it
High 3-A, i want
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I mean.......why would he need to gather up energh for an........well not "huge" but noticeable ammount of time if he could 1 shot the universes? Shouldn't he be able to easily destroy the Solar System with like, a minor Ki blast at 0.001% of his power?
Hasty12345
Username Only- 5,190
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The androids have infinite energy, the only limiting factor to their scaling realistically is the time needed to convert the energy into ki.
I would support something “4-B upto high 3-A if given enough time to charge” or something.
I would support something “4-B upto high 3-A if given enough time to charge” or something.
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true, and the fact that his immortality (type 1) is only a possibility i'm pretty sure. destroying the universe with 4-C AP and hypersonic travel speed is....yeah i dont even need to say it
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eh his immortality is only a possibility like i said. plus even imperfect cell isn't 4-B, a fully charged up super perfect cell is. that statement doesn't make sense from A-16 given imperfect Cell's current AP or speed.
so while i don't think Toriyama intended Cell to one shot a universe, it's just as ridiculous to argue that he'd spend a f**kbillion number of years just blasting stars up only to realize he hasn't even destroyed 10% of them. and no he'd absolutely need to travel a lot, idk why you said that.
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Do we know that he is talking about Imperfect Cell and not Perfect Cell?
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like i said, yeah, because no one knows about perfect Cell yet not even Cell himself. at best, he could be talking about semi-perfect Cell if 16 was estimating how strong he'd get upon absorbing 17
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Well......he knows he would become "perfect" after absorbing both 17 and 18, if can estimate how strong he would be if he absorbed one, he can so the same for him absorbing the other, no?
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except i'm only positing that as a best-case scenario. we know even Cell was quite surprised at his suppressed perfect state. to say that A-16 would be able to predict FP perfect Cell's strength is pretty ridiculous imo. i don't actually believe A-16 was predicting or estimating anything here.
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DBS Speed questions
Right now, the speed stats for DBS characters are all basically upscaled from this calc if I'm understanding correctly That calc scales Goku's and Beerus's speed based on the explosion that would have engulfed and destroyed Universe 7 if Goku didn't cancel it out However, their AP is...
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I mean, he doesn't say "he will be able to deatroy the universe" he says that it is what he wants to do, so since he isn't sure what cell will be able to do once perfect assuming the worst scenario would make sense
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Cell saying he has gathered enough energy/chi to blow away the solar system is outright telling that his AP is only at that level at most, it’s not like he is arbitrarily reducing his AoE, if he were universal he would have said he had enough chi to blow away the universe instead.
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yeah except he literally doesn't know ANYTHING about how strong cell would be. he could've even been underestimating his strength if anything (its basically a running joke in DB that a new villain is much stronger than "anyone expected him to be"). ngl this argument is weaker than Yamcha.
but let me steelman this just to show why even if you were correct in A-16's assumption of Cell, you'd still be wrong overall. let's say A-16 did know that SPC would be 4-B. still doesn't change the fact that being stated to be able to destroy the universe with 4-B AP and hypersonic speed is.....basically impossible, to the point that 16's assertion is almost a complete non-statement that's not even worth thinking about much less worrying about.
as i said, i don't believe Cell can one shot the universe (whether or not Toriyama intended it), but to hold that the other extreme must be true instead (that is, he takes a bajillion years to fly to another star and nuke it, rinse and repeat 200 quadrillion times just for our galaxy alone) just because! is also ridiculous and arguably a worse argument as well, yet we essentially believe that with a straight face
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that doesn't work either. IIRC (check the japanese, idk if its the exact same as english), Cell says he has "already" gathered enough chi/energy to blow away the entire solar system. this seems to suggest not that he was only bragging about busting the solar system, but much more so about how he has already charged up enough to do so (implying he could charge up more/have higher AP if he wanted to).
another reason this argument doesnt work is because if you believe Cell is JUST capping himself as Solar System (as in, at most solar system level as you've just said yourself), then the current rating shouldn't be something you agree with. because SPC is currently quite a bit above baseline solar system level, he isn't capped to baseline, Gohan is even higher (even though he has the same SS busting statement in the Guidebook IIRC).
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Peak
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the statement is clearly talking about perfect cell, A16 literally says complete form, cell's perfect form is pretty much known yk
and A16 is less reliable than cell himself an a dozen of other sources, even if the statement was legitimate
ignoring the dozen solar system level statements (which are also supported by canonical scaling and multipliers) for 1 universal vague statement with 0 feats from a not as reliable source?
seems to me that yall just want to wank cell and high ball him by ignoring context
and A16 is less reliable than cell himself an a dozen of other sources, even if the statement was legitimate
ignoring the dozen solar system level statements (which are also supported by canonical scaling and multipliers) for 1 universal vague statement with 0 feats from a not as reliable source?
seems to me that yall just want to wank cell and high ball him by ignoring context
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Yeah......that's the point, he doesn't know, he is just guessing, sure he could be "underestimating" him, he could also be "overestimating", there is no solid conclusion to have from this since he doesn't know how strong Perfect Cell would be, so him guessing his objective,
he didn't said he would be able to destroy the universe, he said that is what he wants to do, which by nature would make him dangerous to the Earth
I mean......a being that wants to destroy everything would destroy the Earth alongside everyone's on it life.......it wouldn't be a non statememt at all, he would be dangerous
We are not assuming that........it is simply that we don't know, so going either way and assume is not possible without having a timeframe or something like that
......not really, we just have no way to know, so we go by the safer route instead of assuming the highest interpretation
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Another one of those DB tributes in a Chinese manga
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The first episode will be released on October 6th
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