Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

[RedReaper616]

I notice the Time Stop being referred to as Time Skip got ignored in thread…

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I notice the Time Stop being referred to as Time Skip got ignored in thread…

Soon I'll make a crt so we can get Goku's resistance back to stop time, i have lots of evidence to prove this.

 

[Omegabronic]

I notice the Time Stop being referred to as Time Skip got ignored in thread…

it didn't, it just wasn't referred as such, i literally answered you and explained it why that was the case, so since the thread had reached grace, i just decided to apply it, we talk on my wall if you want to continue arguing about it

 

[RedReaper616]

it didn't, it just wasn't referred as such, i literally answered you and explained it why that was the case, so since the thread had reached grace, i just decided to apply it, we talk on my wall if you want to continue arguing about it

And I pointed out this objectively wasn’t the case. When Hit freezes Goku in Time (where we literally see him frozen in time) to avoid the KKx10 KHH Punch, he calls it Time Skip.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

And I pointed out this objectively wasn’t the case. When Hit freezes Goku in Time (where we literally see him frozen in time) to avoid the KKx10 KHH Punch, he calls it Time Skip.

Well, visually it looks like a freeze (since Goku is trapped in that glass-like thing), but when explaining what Hit did he only says that he extended the Time Skip, so...

 

[RedReaper616]

Well, visually it looks like a freeze (since Goku is trapped in that glass-like thing), but when explaining what Hit did he only says that he extended the Time Skip, so...

That’s what I mean. He very clearly stops Goku in Time, and calls that Time Skip. Though, on Aniwave he just says “increased.”

 

[Omegabronic]

And I pointed out this objectively wasn’t the case. When Hit freezes Goku in Time (where we literally see him frozen in time) to avoid the KKx10 KHH Punch, he calls it Time Skip.

and as i explained, that situation has other explanations that do not involve it being time stop, which would be supported by Vados saying that it isn't time stop

That’s what I mean. He very clearly stops Goku in Time, and calls that Time Skip. Though, on Aniwave he just says “increased.”

considering that Time Skip during the entirety of that fight was very clearly not time stop, and the only thing hit says changes when he improves his time skip is the length of it.....it suddenly gaining time stop abilities do not make much sense

again, if you want to discuss this further, go to my wall please, i don't to flood the general discussion thread

 

[RenderGK]

and as i explained, that situation has other explanations that do not involve it being time stop, which would be supported by Vados saying that it isn't time stop


considering that Time Skip during the entirety of that fight was very clearly not time stop, and the only thing hit says changes when he improves his time skip is the length of it.....it suddenly gaining time stop abilities do not make much sense

again, if you want to discuss this further, go to my wall please, i don't to flood the general discussion thread

When Vados explains, he is talking about how time skip allowed him to create his hit dimension with Time skip, and why Goku can't touch hit at that moment.

Even the same Toei page indicates that the hit time skip stops time

 

[RedReaper616]

I mean, I wouldn’t consider it flooding. Especially since, given our lack of new material, we’ve had the same arguments happening in this channel back to back, which caused the thread.

But also, we all agree that the Time Stop affect is red, right? When he uses Time Stop against the Mob Boss? That was your argument for them being separate abilities, after all.

 

[RenderGK]

even hit doesn't use time stop with Goku again in their rematch why, he knows it won't work with Goku and he accepts it himself

 

[Omegabronic]

When Vados explains, he is talking about how time skip allowed him to create his hit dimension with Time skip, and why Goku can't touch hit at that moment.

Vados says that Hit can store the time he skips to create another dimension, not that the di

Even the same Toei page indicates that the hit time skip stops time

which is contradicted by Vados saying otherwise and the very principle which Goku used to counter the Time Skip the first time arround

I mean, I wouldn’t consider it flooding. Especially since, given our lack of new material, we’ve had the same arguments happening in this channel back to back, which caused the thread.

ok, i guess we can here then when will we hit 1200 pages?

But also, we all agree that the Time Stop affect is red, right? When he uses Time Stop against the Mob Boss? That was your argument for them being separate abilities, after all.

it was a minor argument entertaining your argument about he "visual flair" never a main argument of why it wasn't the time skip

 

[Omegabronic]

even hit doesn't use time stop with Goku again in their rematch why, he knows it won't work with Goku and he accepts it himself

Hit doesn't use the Time Stop, that's true, however we do not know why, the only thing he specifies he isn't for a reason using is Time Skip, which Vados says doesn't stop time, any assumption on why he didn't use Time Stop is only that, an assumption, which we have no evidence to say why

 

[RedReaper616]

it was a minor argument entertaining your argument about he "visual flair" never a main argument of why it wasn't the time skip

Point being, you consider this minute visual difference signifying how it is Time Stop rather than Time Skip, right?

 

[RenderGK]

Vados says that Hit can store the time he skips to create another dimension, not that the di

It doesn't change that it uses time skip for that.

which is contradicted by Vados saying otherwise and the very principle which Goku used to counter the Time Skip the first time arround

Even the hit itself says that it stops time.

2 statements about one, and on top of that when in the Vados scene he is only explaining how Goku can't play a hit

 

[Nullflowerblush]

it suddenly gaining time stop abilities do not make much sense

Hit literally froze Jiren in time.

The effects of the normal Time-Skip technique and the effects of the sub-application that Hit [apparently] suspended Goku and the mob boss's henchmen in time with, even producing a differently colored visual, are evidently different.

When Hit uses Time-Skip, he, as its name suggests, leaps through time—he travels. When Hit [apparently] froze Goku in time, only Goku was affected, as if only he was affected by Hit's time abilities.

 

[RedReaper616]

Hit literally froze Jiren in time.

The effects of the normal Time-Skip technique and the effects of the sub-application that Hit [apparently] suspended Goku and the mob boss's henchmen in time with, even producing a differently colored visual, are evidently different.

I bring this up because the second time Goku is stopped in time, when Hit does his dozens of hits on him, he declares “My Time Skip has improved so much you can’t keep anymore!” And the effects are now the Red from “Time Stop” he uses on the Henchmen, instead of Green-Blue (which we see him using earlier in the Assassination episode to bypass security).

So it’s by his own volition an application of Time Skip, is visually a time stop, and matches visually with his later time stop (which he himself states it is.)

 

[Omegabronic]

Point being, you consider this minute visual difference signifying how it is Time Stop rather than Time Skip, right?

if extrapolating on your "visual flair" point exclusively, which i don't believe really matter much as it is just Hit's powers visual motif as nothing more on my eyes, btw if your point is going to be that at the end of the fight the time skip seemed red, know that the Kaioken made everything have a red color scheme to it

It doesn't change that it uses time skip for that.

as a support by skiping time to store sure, not to create the dimension itself tho, altho not sure how would this matter for it being said to not stop time

Even the hit itself says that it stops time.

he......he doesn't tho, he never says that the Time Skip stops time

2 statements about one, and on top of that when in the Vados scene he is only explaining how Goku can't play a hit

Which she explains by saying how Time Skip doesn't stop time, but skips it, which allows Hit to store said skipped time to use in other manners, which.....doesn't affects the statement itself

Hit literally froze Jiren in time.

with the Time Cage, which isn't the Time Skip, what i said is that during the entire first fight, Hit only ever mentions his improvement as being to better the length of his Time Skip, so it gaining a new ability out of nowhere would make no sense, him having other abilities that can stop time later on are not really a point against the argument

The effects of the normal Time-Skip technique and the effects of the sub-application that Hit [apparently] suspended Goku and the mob boss's henchmen in time with, even producing a differently colored visual, are evidently different.

well, the mod boss' situation is never called "time skip" so we can't use that, and the Goku part, if it is the last clash of the U6 fight, i explained why it doesn't need to be Time Stop there giving the similarity with another situation earlier in the same fight

When Hit uses Time-Skip, he, as its name suggests, leaps through time—he travels. When Hit [apparently] froze Goku in time, only Goku was affected, as if only he was affected by Hit's time abilities.

can you show the scene you are talking about? we might be thinking of different scenes here

 

[RedReaper616]

if extrapolating on your "visual flair" point exclusively, which i don't believe really matter much as it is just Hit's powers visual motif as nothing more on my eyes, btw if your point is going to be that at the end of the fight the time skip seemed red, know that the Kaioken made everything have a red color scheme to it

No? When he caught KK Goku the first time and froze him, it was all blue green. It only became red at the end of the fight, where Hit declares his Time Skip has evolved even further.

with the Time Cage, which isn't the Time Skip, what i said is that during the entire first fight, Hit only ever mentions his improvement as being to better the length of his Time Skip, so it gaining a new ability out of nowhere would make no sense, him having other abilities that can stop time later on are not really a point against the argument

Time Cage is literally just him applying Time Skip in an inverse way via the Time Accumulated by Time Skip. There’s not a fanciful difference, there.

well, the mod boss' situation is never called "time skip" so we can't use that, and the Goku part, if it is the last clash of the U6 fight, i explained why it doesn't need to be Time Stop there giving the similarity with another situation earlier in the same fight

You’re giving Vados waaaay too much weight, statement wise, in my opinion. Because we blatantly see her contradicted.

 

[Omegabronic]

No? When he caught KK Goku the first time and froze him, it was all blue green. It only became red at the end of the fight, where Hit declares his Time Skip has evolved even further.

which as i said, i never used visual color as a main argument for when he is or isn't using time stop vs time skip, i was just entertaining the idea, also you are ignoring the main point, why would the Time Skip suddenly gain a new ability like this when during the entire fight the only thing he says his improvement is doing is making the length which that he can skip longer, why would it suddenly gain a new Time Stop trait, and more, why would no one comment on it as he gains it? more over, if you want to argue that it was always a part of it....why didn't he used earlier? why doesn't he make a differentiation about both applications when he supposedly uses the other one?

a better argument would be that he simply grew to be so fast and strong that he can just blitz Goku like that, since we do know that his powers also raises alongside his Time Skip length

Time Cage is literally just him applying Time Skip in an inverse way via the Time Accumulated by Time Skip. There’s not a fanciful difference, there.

So he is doing the oposite of the Time Skip? he isn't making Jiren go to the past so that would be weird, also please scans for this?

You’re giving Vados waaaay too much weight, statement wise, in my opinion. Because we blatantly see her contradicted.

we don't tho? also, the statement covers the Time Stop possibility, saying how it is a misconception in verse, if the entire point is her being wrong and that the Time Skip does stop time........then how Goku's solution to it the first time around work? and how to explain him clearly moving during Time Skip even before using the kaioken to go "beyond" it?

also you are saying that the Time Skip can stop time if Hit wants it to, but you never provide a statement that cites this specification, you only say it does, but as we can see in the first fight with Goku, if this different methods were meant to exist for different effects, why doesn't anyone, not even Hit himself, point out when said different effects are apparently used? If Hit could really stop time instead of just Time Traveling with this Time Skip, why did he insist on using the application that wasn't working on Goku instead of just switching to the other one?

 

[RedReaper616]

which as i said, i never used visual color as a main argument for when he is or isn't using time stop vs time skip, i was just entertaining the idea, also you are ignoring the main point, why would the Time Skip suddenly gain a new ability like this when during the entire fight the only thing he says his improvement is doing is making the length which that he can skip longer, why would it suddenly gain a new Time Stop trait, and more, why would no one comment on it as he gains it? more over, if you want to argue that it was always a part of it....why didn't he used earlier? why doesn't he make a differentiation about both applications when he supposedly uses the other one?

1) Unless you’re trying to say no other Time Related ability is part of Time Skip, Hit’s ability to improve Time Skip resulted in other applications. Such as Time Cage, or the Tides of Time. So it’s not at all weird or confusing. You’re just asserting it is.

2) I never argued it was always part of Time Skip.

a better argument would be that he simply grew to be so fast and strong that he can just blitz Goku like that, since we do know that his powers also raises alongside his Time Skip length

No, they explicitly didn’t. As stated by Hit and Piccolo, his power did not increase at all. He gives a whole speech on this. He is ONLY improving Time Skip. And improving his technique results in what we see.

So he is doing the oposite of the Time Skip? he isn't making Jiren go to the past so that would be weird, also please scans for this?

No, I mean targeting wise. Instead of applying Time Skip in such a way where only he is capable of movement, making him appear faster, he did the reverse—Selectively targeting his opponent, and making them slower, thus to the opponent everyone looks faster than they are.

we don't tho? also, the statement covers the Time Stop possibility, saying how it is a misconception in verse, if the entire point is her being wrong and that the Time Skip does stop time........then how Goku's solution to it the first time around work? and how to explain him clearly moving during Time Skip even before using the kaioken to go "beyond" it?

The statement doesn’t. When I pointed out he explicitly stopped time, you just said Vados clearly wasn’t talking about that power, and claimed it was a totally different, unrelated ability. Despite the fact that this would make no sense narratively. Secondly, I’m claiming Time Stop is a sub application of Time Skip. (Hence why it’s always referred to under that name.) Also, Goku’s solution to Time Skip still totally works, I don’t get your point there.

also you are saying that the Time Skip can stop time if Hit wants it to, but you never provide a statement that cites this specification, you only say it does, but as we can see in the first fight with Goku, if this different methods were meant to exist for different effects, why doesn't anyone, not even Hit himself, point out when said different effects are apparently used? If Hit could really stop time instead of just Time Traveling with this Time Skip, why did he insist on using the application that wasn't working on Goku instead of just switching to the other one?

He literally stops time. We see him do it. He says it. Your counter to this is that they’re two separate, unrelated powers, but this was never established and makes no sense. Furthermore, why would anyone comment on it? To everyone else, he’s always been Stopping Time. This is what Jaco, the Galactic King, the Pride Trooper, etc. all view the technique as. Only Vados claims differently, and even then this is in direct contradiction to the prior episode, where he quite literally claims to stop time. And even if we took her word above others, given he literally also stops time, it just means he can do both.

 

[RenderGK]

1) Unless you’re trying to say no other Time Related ability is part of Time Skip, Hit’s ability to improve Time Skip resulted in other applications. Such as Time Cage, or the Tides of Time. So it’s not at all weird or confusing. You’re just asserting it is.

2) I never argued it was always part of Time Skip.

No, they explicitly didn’t. As stated by Hit and Piccolo, his power did not increase at all. He gives a whole speech on this. He is ONLY improving Time Skip. And improving his technique results in what we see.

No, I mean targeting wise. Instead of applying Time Skip in such a way where only he is capable of movement, making him appear faster, he did the reverse—Selectively targeting his opponent, and making them slower, thus to the opponent everyone looks faster than they are.

The statement doesn’t. When I pointed out he explicitly stopped time, you just said Vados clearly wasn’t talking about that power, and claimed it was a totally different, unrelated ability. Despite the fact that this would make no sense narratively. Secondly, I’m claiming Time Stop is a sub application of Time Skip. (Hence why it’s always referred to under that name.) Also, Goku’s solution to Time Skip still totally works, I don’t get your point there.

He literally stops time. We see him do it. He says it. Your counter to this is that they’re two separate, unrelated powers, but this was never established and makes no sense. Furthermore, why would anyone comment on it? To everyone else, he’s always been Stopping Time. This is what Jaco, the Galactic King, the Pride Trooper, etc. all view the technique as. Only Vados claims differently, and even then this is in direct contradiction to the prior episode, where he quite literally claims to stop time. And even if we took her word above others, given he literally also stops time, it just means he can do both.

exactly, but well it seems that this is basically difficult to understand for some.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I think we should do a crt on Hit's abilities again

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

1) Unless you’re trying to say no other Time Related ability is part of Time Skip, Hit’s ability to improve Time Skip resulted in other applications. Such as Time Cage, or the Tides of Time. So it’s not at all weird or confusing. You’re just asserting it is.

2) I never argued it was always part of Time Skip.

No, they explicitly didn’t. As stated by Hit and Piccolo, his power did not increase at all. He gives a whole speech on this. He is ONLY improving Time Skip. And improving his technique results in what we see.

No, I mean targeting wise. Instead of applying Time Skip in such a way where only he is capable of movement, making him appear faster, he did the reverse—Selectively targeting his opponent, and making them slower, thus to the opponent everyone looks faster than they are.

The statement doesn’t. When I pointed out he explicitly stopped time, you just said Vados clearly wasn’t talking about that power, and claimed it was a totally different, unrelated ability. Despite the fact that this would make no sense narratively. Secondly, I’m claiming Time Stop is a sub application of Time Skip. (Hence why it’s always referred to under that name.) Also, Goku’s solution to Time Skip still totally works, I don’t get your point there.

He literally stops time. We see him do it. He says it. Your counter to this is that they’re two separate, unrelated powers, but this was never established and makes no sense. Furthermore, why would anyone comment on it? To everyone else, he’s always been Stopping Time. This is what Jaco, the Galactic King, the Pride Trooper, etc. all view the technique as. Only Vados claims differently, and even then this is in direct contradiction to the prior episode, where he quite literally claims to stop time. And even if we took her word above others, given he literally also stops time, it just means he can do both.

第6宇宙の伝説の殺し屋。第7宇宙との格闘試合では、時間を止める技「時とばし」で悟空を窮地に追い込んだ。



Translation:

"A legendary assassin from Universe 6. In a martial arts fight with Universe 7, he pushed Goku into a corner with his "Time Skip" technique, which stops time"

Toei source

ドラゴンボール超 宇宙サバイバル編 第6宇宙

[挑戦の宇宙] レベルが下から３番目の宇宙。界王神フワ、破壊神シャンパ、天使ヴァドス、戦士 ヒット、フロスト、ボタモ、マゲッタ、キャベ、カリフラ、ケール、Ｄｒロタのご紹介。

www.toei-anim.co.jp

A technique where the user stops time for about a tenth of a second and unleashes high-speed attacks in the meantime

Dragon Ball's own website stating

[Weekly ☆ Character Showcase #103: Hit from Dragon Ball Super!] | DRAGON BALL OFFICIAL SITE

Hit - God of Destruction Champa Arc - The Weekly ☆ Character Show

en.dragon-ball-official.com

Anime mentioned that Hit stops time, is said by the owner of the ability.



Reaffirmed again in the tournament of power



And yes, the Hit time stop, people have to understand that Hit doesn't just have a time-based ability, but rather several skills about time.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

exactly, but well it seems that this is basically difficult to understand for some.

Yes, Hit uses several time-based abilities.

 

[RedReaper616]

I think we should do a crt on Hit's abilities again

The problem is that Hit’s powers just straight up aren’t consistent. For example, when Hit uses his Dimension Shift to avoid an attack from Dyspo, Dyspo verbatim calls it Time Skip and Hit says “Yes. But can you tell what I’ll do next time? Will it be real, or fake?”

Meaning the Tides of Time is also Time Skip. And when Hit freezes Goku in time, he calls it Time Skip. Meaning it’s also Time Skip. They’re all rooted in the same thing, but are utilized differently.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

The problem is that Hit’s powers just straight up aren’t consistent. For example, when Hit uses his Dimension Shift to avoid an attack from Dyspo, Dyspo verbatim calls it Time Skip and Hit says “Yes. But can you tell what I’ll do next time? Will it be real, or fake?”

Hit creates a dimension where it is invulnerable to attacks and can launch intangible attacks, the profile i sent you mentions this, his skills are all based on time.

 

[RedReaper616]

Hit creates a dimension where it is invulnerable to attacks and can launch intangible attacks, the profile i sent you mentions this, his skills are all based on time.

I know, but I’m saying the statements surrounding Time Skip. (Stopping Time Vs Skipping Time Vs Tides of Time), all are called Time Skip, but all are different functions of Time Skip. Due to this, Hit’s powers are seemingly inconsistent, because they all go by the same name. Hence why, in thread, I called out how Time Skip is an umbrella term for what Hit does. Whether that be accumulating Skipped Time (ala Vados in Epi 72), shifting between his Temporal Dimension (Hit himself in Epi 104), or freezing time (Hit himself when he very clearly freezes Goku in Time in I believe Epi 40), it’s still all called Time Skip.

 

[Omegabronic]

1) Unless you’re trying to say no other Time Related ability is part of Time Skip, Hit’s ability to improve Time Skip resulted in other applications. Such as Time Cage, or the Tides of Time. So it’s not at all weird or confusing. You’re just asserting it is.

Yeah, Hit got better at doing his Time Manipulation and learned how to manip time for other effects..........dunno why you think that abilities with different names and effects are all just the Time Skip tho, again, can you show me proof of these statements?

2) I never argued it was always part of Time Skip.

that was me listing the possibilities, not asserting what you have said, if you are saying he just developed that new aplication of his Time Skip.....then go back to all the problems of that possibility that i listed, it still wouldn't make sense

No, they explicitly didn’t. As stated by Hit and Piccolo, his power did not increase at all. He gives a whole speech on this. He is ONLY improving Time Skip. And improving his technique results in what we see.

no, we do know he gets stronger and the current profile states that he does get stronger under his AD description, and btw the "advance" of his Time Skip is always said to be in relation to him making its duration longer, never about him gaining new abilities with it, but i listed these and all the other problems with him making up a new ability for it in my earlier comment, so i will not explain it again

No, I mean targeting wise. Instead of applying Time Skip in such a way where only he is capable of movement, making him appear faster, he did the reverse—Selectively targeting his opponent, and making them slower, thus to the opponent everyone looks faster than they are.

again, statement of this being him applying the Time Skip in reverse? also if you want to say that the Time Skip could aways stop time, know that the scene where he used his TIme Stop power on the mob has him choosing who gets affected and who doesn't, so it would be weird for him to need this specific application of Time Skip when he could already do that much easier earlier on, unless of course, it is the Time Skip(as Vados says) and instead it is him simply having multiple time hax abilities where they have ranks of effectiveness for them, which is more likely

The statement doesn’t. When I pointed out he explicitly stopped time, you just said Vados clearly wasn’t talking about that power, and claimed it was a totally different, unrelated ability.

yeah, against the Mob it was clearly a different ability else Vados' statement makes no sense

Despite the fact that this would make no sense narratively.

why wouldn't it? what statement does the Mob scene have to say that it is the Time Skip being used there?

Secondly, I’m claiming Time Stop is a sub application of Time Skip. (Hence why it’s always referred to under that name.)

it isn't, it litterally isn't called "Time Skip" in the Mob scene, and Vados very much implies that it isn't given her statement, also statement for it having "sub applications" that can completely change what it originally does?

Also, Goku’s solution to Time Skip still totally works, I don’t get your point there.

it doesn't since he clearly moved multiple times when Hit used it against him, also if Hit Stops time with his Time Skip, then predicting where Hit would be would be useless since he would be frozen by Hit's perspective and thus unable to react to his attacks Mid Time Skip, since he would be frozen in time unable to move to counter him

He literally stops time. We see him do it. He says it. Your counter to this is that they’re two separate, unrelated powers, but this was never established and makes no sense.

it HAS been established, it has been explicitly stated that him skipping time and him stopping it are different things, furthermore the moments where Goku seemed "frozen" in the U6 arc i already explained in my original response to you in the earlier thread, he could very well be moving and reacting like he did in the earlier example where he also didn't moved to counter as Hit attacked him, but he was still moving, my explanation to cover this was that Hit simply grew to be too fast for Goku to react, as we factually know that his power grows as he highers his Time Skip, i am not the only one who told you that during the thread btw, so idk why are you so adamant on this being an impossibility compared to your explanation, despite said explanation completely contradicting what is said in the series, also we do know that he must have grow his speed as he advanced, since he initially fought on par with SSJB Goku, only for him to overwelm him after he advanced his time skip, and then fight on par SSJB Goku + Kaioken 10x, so we know for a fact that he has to have gotten faster and stronger

Furthermore, why would anyone comment on it? To everyone else, he’s always been Stopping Time. This is what Jaco, the Galactic King, the Pride Trooper, etc. all view the technique as. Only Vados claims differently

you are arguing that it wasn't always Time Stop and that he just developed it as he advanced his Time Skip.....why wouldn't HIT HIMSELF(i also put him in the reaction argument.....dunno why you ignored him) not note when his technique suddenly does something completely different from what it was doing up until that point? and Goku himself who was dealing with the technique(including moving in the middle of it), why would he not comment when it suddenly doesn't do that and instead just makes him completely unable to move unlike before?

and even then this is in direct contradiction to the prior episode, where he quite literally claims to stop time. And even if we took her word above others, given he literally also stops time, it just means he can do both.

you mean the Mob scene where it is never EVER said that he is using the time skip? is that really your argument? and no, her statement CANNOT work if his Time Skip can stop time, as it would make here statement simply wrong, but as i pointed out, it most likely isn't, as we don't have any statement or consistent showings of his Time Skip stopping time, and the supposed moments where he does are either

A: Full of nonsensical and contradictory situatuations regarding the supposed Time Stop
or
B: Never said to be him using his Time Skip at all at any point and you are only assuming that it is the Time Skip.....despite it being said otherwise

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I know, but I’m saying the statements surrounding Time Skip. (Stopping Time Vs Skipping Time Vs Tides of Time), all are called Time Skip, but all are different functions of Time Skip. Due to this, Hit’s powers are seemingly inconsistent, because they all go by the same name. Hence why, in thread, I called out how Time Skip is an umbrella term for what Hit does. Whether that be accumulating Skipped Time (ala Vados in Epi 72), shifting between his Temporal Dimension (Hit himself in Epi 104), or freezing time (Hit himself when he very clearly freezes Goku in Time in I believe Epi 40), it’s still all called Time Skip.

I think we should create a page explaining Hit's abilities, because this could cause not very good situations in the future and make a crt to return to Goku's resistance.

 

[Omegabronic]

The problem is that Hit’s powers just straight up aren’t consistent. For example, when Hit uses his Dimension Shift to avoid an attack from Dyspo, Dyspo verbatim calls it Time Skip and Hit says “Yes. But can you tell what I’ll do next time? Will it be real, or fake?”

i saw the fight......yeah i agree with this one, the Dimensional shift ability is certainly part of the Time Skip, but then again, Vados says that that one is directly connected to it as to how the Alternate dimension is even made in the first place, so i don't think it is contradictory.....or at least i wouldn't if it wasn't for the elaboration i did bellow

And when Hit freezes Goku in time, he calls it Time Skip. Meaning it’s also Time Skip.

that one i gave reasoning to why it doesn't need to be him being frozen in time

They’re all rooted in the same thing, but are utilized differently.

if they are all Time Skip at the same time.......then Hit's second match with Goku where it is constatly said that he isn't using him Time Skip against him is hard contradicted


btw it is hard to argue when i can't answer to Luffy's replies, so it would make me answers incomplete

 

[Killerdrone123]

My theory is that hit just drives and develops new techniques from time skip like after he saw that goku failed his time skip he just derived another ability of dimension shifting so that it could work against goku

 

[Omegabronic]

My theory is that hit just drives and develops new techniques from time skip like after he saw that goku failed his time skip he just derived another ability of dimension shifting so that it could work against goku

I mean.......that much should completely obvious

 

[RedReaper616]

Yeah, Hit got better at doing his Time Manipulation and learned how to manip time for other effects..........dunno why you think that abilities with different names and effects are all just the Time Skip tho, again, can you show me proof of these statements?

1) Listen to this for a moment. You admit that it is possible for Hit to train and improve Time Skip to get other affects...but then claim that it's not possible for him to do so in battle, despite the fact Hit literally claims his development was started by Goku because it never occurred to him he could improve it. He even calls it "the old fashioned way." Or training. As in, him fighting Goku was him training his powers. Either Hit CAN develop new powers, or he can't. There's no in between.

2) "Different Names." None of these powers are named. Tides of Time is explicitly from FighterZ. In fact, if we were to truly use Naming as evidence (and all Time Skip attack names come from side material), it's automatically a point against you, because they're ALL named Time Skip in XV2.

that was me listing the possibilities, not asserting what you have said, if you are saying he just developed that new aplication of his Time Skip.....then go back to all the problems of that possibility that i listed, it still wouldn't make sense

Read above. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

no, we do know he gets stronger and the current profile states that he does get stronger under his AD description, and btw the "advance" of his Time Skip is always said to be in relation to him making its duration longer, never about him gaining new abilities with it, but i listed these and all the other problems with him making up a new ability for it in my earlier comment, so i will not explain it again

1) What is written on the profile legitimately doesn't matter. Like science, we test, re-examine, and modify as needed when our understanding of a topic has changed. That's what threads are for.

2) No, you didn't. You just made an argument of incredulity.

3) That scan set literally talks about only his Time Skip outside of the last scan, which is also referring to Time Skip. Not physical power. We know this is objectively not about power, because when he improves Time Skip, Vados and Whis comment that there was no power increase. When Hit decribes it, he says he can't improve power. It's raw technique. Only Technique. Which Piccolo then reaffirms. There is absolutely no power increase. Its just Time Skip being improved.

again, statement of this being him applying the Time Skip in reverse? also if you want to say that the Time Skip could aways stop time, know that the scene where he used his TIme Stop power on the mob has him choosing who gets affected and who doesn't, so it would be weird for him to need this specific application of Time Skip when he could already do that much easier earlier on, unless of course, it is the Time Skip(as Vados says) and instead it is him simply having multiple time hax abilities where they have ranks of effectiveness for them, which is more likely

Vados literally says he is using the Time Skip Storage (as in, what is called Time Skip), to trap (as in, selectively targetting them), thus using the ability in reverse. Again, I'm explicitly referencing the targetting. Not some time reversal.

yeah, against the Mob it was clearly a different ability else Vados' statement makes no sense

Okay, if you are so confident, can you prove this is a separate, magical power Hit got from no where, totally unrelated to the ONLY KNOWN TIME POWERS HE HAS? What is it's name? How does it work? Or, is it MORE LIKELY, that it simply a different application of a power we KNOW he has? Especially since his Time Stop claim happens BEFORE Vados explains Time Skip.

why wouldn't it? what statement does the Mob scene have to say that it is the Time Skip being used there?

Again, what other Time Power does Hit have? Hell, when he uses the Dimension Shift and brings people inside it, like against Dyspo, it's called Time Skip. As is the Phantasms.

it isn't, it litterally isn't called "Time Skip" in the Mob scene, and Vados very much implies that it isn't given her statement, also statement for it having "sub applications" that can completely change what it originally does?

Statement that Hit has a new magical power? Also, if you want to be technical then all this proves is Vados is just objectively wrong and thus isn't a reliable source. Especally when Hit, the guy who HAS THE POWER, contradicts her.

it doesn't since he clearly moved multiple times when Hit used it against him, also if Hit Stops time with his Time Skip, then predicting where Hit would be would be useless since he would be frozen by Hit's perspective and thus unable to react to his attacks Mid Time Skip, since he would be frozen in time unable to move to counter him

If I'm saying that Hit gets Time Stop later, towards the end of the fight, (which makes sense, as he literally says he's never attempted to improve Time Skip before), then there's no contradiction. So again, what are you talking about?

it HAS been established, it has been explicitly stated that him skipping time and him stopping it are different things, furthermore the moments where Goku seemed "frozen" in the U6 arc i already explained in my original response to you in the earlier thread, he could very well be moving and reacting like he did in the earlier example where he also didn't moved to counter as Hit attacked him, but he was still moving, my explanation to cover this was that Hit simply grew to be too fast for Goku to react, as we factually know that his power grows as he highers his Time Skip, i am not the only one who told you that during the thread btw, so idk why are you so adamant on this being an impossibility compared to your explanation, despite said explanation completely contradicting what is said in the series, also we do know that he must have grow his speed as he advanced, since he initially fought on par with SSJB Goku, only for him to overwelm him after he advanced his time skip, and then fight on par SSJB Goku + Kaioken 10x, so we know for a fact that he has to have gotten faster and stronger

No, it hasn't. At no point does the story separate these powers. Also, no? Goku is explicitly frozen in Time. You can quite clearly see this. Also, if he wasnt't, then no amount of Time Skip length enhancement would've mattered, because the beam they're fighting in would've decimated him. This also just straight up wouldn't make sense, because if the length of time mattered, Hit disappeared and reappeared inside the beam (as we see where he moved to, right beside Goku, who is within his own KHH Wave), and still would've gotten smacked around. Hell, assuming Goku was still moving, Hit wouldn't be able to move at all and would get bopped by the punch right in front of him, Time Skip or no.

you are arguing that it wasn't always Time Stop and that he just developed it as he advanced his Time Skip.....why wouldn't HIT HIMSELF(i also put him in the reaction argument.....dunno why you ignored him) not note when his technique suddenly does something completely different from what it was doing up until that point? and Goku himself who was dealing with the technique(including moving in the middle of it), why would he not comment when it suddenly doesn't do that and instead just makes him completely unable to move unlike before?

Hit literally comments his Time Skip improves so much that Goku can't keep up anymore, and then unlike before, when he hits Goku, Goku doesn't react mid skip. He only reacts to the LAST TWO blows. (As in, when time resumes.) And even then, it's painted as if all the damage suddenly happened at once.

you mean the Mob scene where it is never EVER said that he is using the time skip? is that really your argument? and no, her statement CANNOT work if his Time Skip can stop time, as it would make here statement simply wrong, but as i pointed out, it most likely isn't, as we don't have any statement or consistent showings of his Time Skip stopping time, and the supposed moments where he does are either

You haven't substantiated why she would be right and everyone else, including Toei, would be wrong. (Especially since this info is Anime-Only, comes from a Filler Episode, and is contradicted by the prior filler episode.)

A: Full of nonsensical and contradictory situatuations regarding the supposed Time Stop
or
B: Never said to be him using his Time Skip at all at any point and you are only assuming that it is the Time Skip.....despite it being said otherwise

Incredibly disingenuous.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

1) Listen to this for a moment. You admit that it is possible for Hit to train and improve Time Skip to get other affects...but then claim that it's not possible for him to do so in battle, despite the fact Hit literally claims his development was started by Goku because it never occurred to him he could improve it. He even calls it "the old fashioned way." Or training. As in, him fighting Goku was him training his powers. Either Hit CAN develop new powers, or he can't. There's no in between.

2) "Different Names." None of these powers are named. Tides of Time is explicitly from FighterZ. In fact, if we were to truly use Naming as evidence (and all Time Skip attack names come from side material), it's automatically a point against you, because they're ALL named Time Skip in XV2.

Read above. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

1) What is written on the profile legitimately doesn't matter. Like science, we test, re-examine, and modify as needed when our understanding of a topic has changed. That's what threads are for.

2) No, you didn't. You just made an argument of incredulity.

3) That scan set literally talks about only his Time Skip outside of the last scan, which is also referring to Time Skip. Not physical power. We know this is objectively not about power, because when he improves Time Skip, Vados and Whis comment that there was no power increase. When Hit decribes it, he says he can't improve power. It's raw technique. Only Technique. Which Piccolo then reaffirms. There is absolutely no power increase. Its just Time Skip being improved.

Vados literally says he is using the Time Skip Storage (as in, what is called Time Skip), to trap (as in, selectively targetting them), thus using the ability in reverse. Again, I'm explicitly referencing the targetting. Not some time reversal.

Okay, if you are so confident, can you prove this is a separate, magical power Hit got from no where, totally unrelated to the ONLY KNOWN TIME POWERS HE HAS? What is it's name? How does it work? Or, is it MORE LIKELY, that it simply a different application of a power we KNOW he has? Especially since his Time Stop claim happens BEFORE Vados explains Time Skip.

Again, what other Time Power does Hit have? Hell, when he uses the Dimension Shift and brings people inside it, like against Dyspo, it's called Time Skip. As is the Phantasms.

Statement that Hit has a new magical power? Also, if you want to be technical then all this proves is Vados is just objectively wrong and thus isn't a reliable source. Especally when Hit, the guy who HAS THE POWER, contradicts her.

If I'm saying that Hit gets Time Stop later, towards the end of the fight, (which makes sense, as he literally says he's never attempted to improve Time Skip before), then there's no contradiction. So again, what are you talking about?

No, it hasn't. At no point does the story separate these powers. Also, no? Goku is explicitly frozen in Time. You can quite clearly see this. Also, if he wasnt't, then no amount of Time Skip length enhancement would've mattered, because the beam they're fighting in would've decimated him. This also just straight up wouldn't make sense, because if the length of time mattered, Hit disappeared and reappeared inside the beam (as we see where he moved to, right beside Goku, who is within his own KHH Wave), and still would've gotten smacked around. Hell, assuming Goku was still moving, Hit wouldn't be able to move at all and would get bopped by the punch right in front of him, Time Skip or no.

Hit literally comments his Time Skip improves so much that Goku can't keep up anymore, and then unlike before, when he hits Goku, Goku doesn't react mid skip. He only reacts to the LAST TWO blows. (As in, when time resumes.) And even then, it's painted as if all the damage suddenly happened at once.

You haven't substantiated why she would be right and everyone else, including Toei, would be wrong. (Especially since this info is Anime-Only, comes from a Filler Episode, and is contradicted by the prior filler episode.)

Incredibly disingenuous.

Beautiful arguments, you won the first time.

 

[Kroneii1]

I like more the idea of Hit just jumping into the future with his time skip than Hit stopping time for 0.1 seconds.
So yeah I think we should treat them as two different abilities.

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

This is the first time I've seen one try to use a statement to disprove a feat

I just rewatched Goku vs hit again, in his final evolution, the area turns red, and when he goes to kill the mob boss, the exact same red background is shown and he's stopping time for them,

Add this to both Toei page and official site stating he stops time as well as further statements of his timeskip stopping time in the ToP and this just gets silly

 

[Killerdrone123]

They could still be same ability and do both functions to

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

They could still be same ability and do both functions to

That's exactly what it is, his timeskip is the canopy of all his time abilities, he skips time and stores it, then create a time Pocket dimension of that stored time which the games called tides of time, and he can continuously use timeskip on a person, which is time cage. The normal skipping of time also has the effect of a time stop after hit evolves it against Goku

 

[Omegabronic]

1) Listen to this for a moment. You admit that it is possible for Hit to train and improve Time Skip to get other affects...but then claim that it's not possible for him to do so in battle, despite the fact Hit literally claims his development was started by Goku because it never occurred to him he could improve it. He even calls it "the old fashioned way." Or training. As in, him fighting Goku was him training his powers. Either Hit CAN develop new powers, or he can't. There's no in between.

What? NO, i didn't said that, i said that he can develop new powers.....i never claimed that he developed new haxes by altering his Time Skip, i don't even know how you got that from what i said

2) "Different Names." None of these powers are named. Tides of Time is explicitly from FighterZ. In fact, if we were to truly use Naming as evidence (and all Time Skip attack names come from side material), it's automatically a point against you, because they're ALL named Time Skip in XV2.

Isn't "cage of time" said in the anime? if none of them are named, then that is ok, my point doesn't really change much without this little detail

Read above. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

wdym? if i have a cake, of course i can eat it

seriously tho, the said problems i brought up "no one, not even Goku and Hit notice anything different between Hit's normal Time Skip and the supposed different version he supposedly developed in the middle of their fight" between others......not sure why you would ask me to read above when that has nothing to do with the problems i was talking about in the part you are responding

1) What is written on the profile legitimately doesn't matter. Like science, we test, re-examine, and modify as needed when our understanding of a topic has changed. That's what threads are for.

and in the profile we have statements of him "getting stronger as his stance improves", also the whole point i gave of him vs SSJB and SSBK20 Goku, he factually HAS to have gotten stronger and faster else his clash with Goku makes no sense

2) No, you didn't. You just made an argument of incredulity.

how is me pointing out that nothing treats the first instance of time travel time skip and the later on supposed time stop instance of time skip any different from one another me being incredulous? please point out my incredulity here, i can't see it

3) That scan set literally talks about only his Time Skip outside of the last scan, which is also referring to Time Skip.

Hit saying why changed his Skip doesn't change nor impossibilitates that his power rose as well, else why would Beerus, who can feel power levels via Ki sensing, say that he got stronger?

Not physical power. We know this is objectively not about power, because when he improves Time Skip, Vados and Whis comment that there was no power increase. When Hit decribes it, he says he can't improve power. It's raw technique. Only Technique. Which Piccolo then reaffirms. There is absolutely no power increase. Its just Time Skip being improved.

which is contradicted by him innitially getting overwhelmed by Base Blue Goku only to keep up with Blue Kaioken 10x Goku, which he innitially got blitzed by mind you, so if he doesn't grow in power in any capacity.......how do you explain?

Vados literally says he is using the Time Skip Storage (as in, what is called Time Skip), to trap (as in, selectively targetting them), thus using the ability in reverse.

exept she never says that he is using the Time Skip there, but it is rather using the TIME he stored FROM said skips, there is a key difference there, he using the after effects of one technique to use for another technique, not that he is using the Time Skip itself

Again, I'm explicitly referencing the targetting. Not some time reversal.

i see, i got confused by your wording is all, glad we could clear that up

Okay, if you are so confident, can you prove this is a separate, magical power Hit got from no where, totally unrelated to the ONLY KNOWN TIME POWERS HE HAS? What is it's name? How does it work?

dunno, it has been a time skip(no captions, i am not talking about the technique this time) between the U6 saga and their second rematch, so he must have figured out another ways to manip time, this is a classic time skip anime stuff where chars gain new abilities of screen, i don't need to prove what is stated to us

Or, is it MORE LIKELY, that it simply a different application of a power we KNOW he has? Especially since his Time Stop claim happens BEFORE Vados explains Time Skip.

that is impossible since, outside of that Vados statement that would contradict this notion, both Hit and Goku say that he isn't using his Time Skip at all in their rematch, yet you are saying that all of his time abilities are the Time Skip, despite the fact that Goku, Vados and Hit himself say otherwise

Again, what other Time Power does Hit have? Hell, when he uses the Dimension Shift and brings people inside it, like against Dyspo, it's called Time Skip. As is the Phantasms.

those would be both just inconsistencies with the narrative, as when those were introduced it was very well established that they were not the time skip at all

Statement that Hit has a new magical power?

the fact that he shows new abilities, and that it is stated to not be his time skip, i already proved it

Also, if you want to be technical then all this proves is Vados is just objectively wrong and thus isn't a reliable source. Especally when Hit, the guy who HAS THE POWER, contradicts her.

no, Hit, the guy who has the power, says the same as her, they AREN'T the time skip, and Vados was proven right in her explanation as what she described is what Hit did against Goku in that fight

If I'm saying that Hit gets Time Stop later, towards the end of the fight, (which makes sense, as he literally says he's never attempted to improve Time Skip before), then there's no contradiction. So again, what are you talking about?

i am talking about all the other points i showed before of how illogical that would be to everything this improvement is said to do + the "reaction to it" argument, you can't grab each sentence and separate on their own, you have to look at the whole

No, it hasn't. At no point does the story separate these powers.

exempt for Goku, Vados and Hit himself in the rematch

Also, no? Goku is explicitly frozen in Time. You can quite clearly see this.

in the same scene Hit says that all he did was increase the time of his Time Skip, that is all that he says,

Also, if he wasnt't, then no amount of Time Skip length enhancement would've mattered, because the beam they're fighting in would've decimated him.

unless he gets faster when he improves, which as i stated, it is something that HAS to have happened for the clashes he has with Goku to make sense

This also just straight up wouldn't make sense, because if the length of time mattered, Hit disappeared and reappeared inside the beam (as we see where he moved to, right beside Goku, who is within his own KHH Wave), and still would've gotten smacked around. Hell, assuming Goku was still moving, Hit wouldn't be able to move at all and would get bopped by the punch right in front of him, Time Skip or no.

he time travels dude, he just time traveled to outside of the Beam's range + the speed amplification thing i keep saying that he has, you can't disconsider that since it is also an important point i am bringing

Hit literally comments his Time Skip improves so much that Goku can't keep up anymore, and then unlike before, when he hits Goku, Goku doesn't react mid skip.

we don't know that, we never see his face as Hit is hitting him unlike before, which he also didn't made a move at all to counter as Hit was attacking him, it just makes it seem like the speed raising is more likely, as it would be a matter of Goku being unable to react to him

He only reacts to the LAST TWO blows. (As in, when time resumes.) And even then, it's painted as if all the damage suddenly happened at once.

well, i answered that above, so i won't do it again

You haven't substantiated why she would be right and everyone else, including Toei, would be wrong. (Especially since this info is Anime-Only, comes from a Filler Episode, and is contradicted by the prior filler episode.)

there is no "filler" in DBS Anime, not in the sense that would invalidate it in anyway at least, oh and also it isn't just her, Hit and Goku himself say otherwise, and the anime is priority, if outside sources contradict it, then it gets priority

Incredibly disingenuous.

nope, those are my sincere feelings and thoughts towards this matter

 

[Omegabronic]

This is the first time I've seen one try to use a statement to disprove a feat

I just rewatched Goku vs hit again, in his final evolution, the area turns red, and when he goes to kill the mob boss, the exact same red background is shown and he's stopping time for them,

Add this to both Toei page and official site stating he stops time as well as further statements of his timeskip stopping time in the ToP and this just gets silly

when he kills the mob boss it isn't red, it is white