Dragon Ball Super Broly SPOILERS!

[LightinAnt]

Since he took a punch from post Top SSG Vegeta effortlessly, low 2-c?

That was Wrathful Mode Broly. Which was confirmed to be a form that utilizes the Oozaru's Power. It's essentially a 10x multiplier to Base if we accept the Oozaru mulitplier.
No it was base since his hair was down, look in trailer again, the pseudo super saiyan form has his hair stand up

 

[Bats16]

@Bats16 There is a gap between the GoDs but it's unknown how big it is in the anime. But it's probably not that big as Iwne, Arack, and Liquiir were shown to be comparable to each toner in a spar in the anime.

Nothing suggests those 3 were giving it their all. Either way, there's no explicit evidence suggesting there isn't a gap between the GoDs. I'm not the one arguing for it, so the burden of proof isn't on me. I asked for explicit evidence that points to Jiren > Beerus and I was given Jiren > Belmod and therefore > Beerus because there's no gap between the GoDs, which there's no evidence of.

 

[ZERO7772]

Since he tanked a punch from post Top SSG Vegeta effortlessly, low 2-c?

that was Ikari Broly not base.

 

[Peter1129]

@LightinAnt The summary said it was an incomplete version of the Wrathful Mode that started to pressure Post-ToP SSG Vegeta. Base Broly was the one that got dominated by Post-ToP SSG Vegeta.

 

[Bats16]

Since he took a punch from post Top SSG Vegeta effortlessly, low 2-c?

That was Wrathful Mode Broly. Which was confirmed to be a form that utilizes the Oozaru's Power. It's essentially a 10x multiplier to Base if we accept the Oozaru mulitplier.

No it was base since his hair was down, look in trailer again, the Yellow eye form has his hair stand up
It wasn't base. Read the summary. Vegeta goes SSG and punches base Broly through numerous mountains and then Broly transforms into his incomplete Wrathful mode, which SSG Vegeta can't do anything against.

 

[LightinAnt]

His hair was down though, then again he has yellow eyes in it too, it does look confusing

 

[The_Mysterious_Stranger_-_Delta-]

Yet, stating that Beerus did not take the match seriously is also fan speculation.

There isn't a direct comparison, the issue is that there are other statements and promotional material implying that Jiren is essentially beyond the domain of the GoDs in general.

 

[ZERO7772]

I can't be the only one who is hoping for SSJ4 down the lien after reading about Broly's Ikari form ╩ò•ß┤Ñ•╩ö

 

[Bats16]

Yet, stating that Beerus did not take the match seriously is also fan speculation.
There isn't a direct comparison, the issue is that there are other statements and promotional material implying that Jiren is essentially beyond the domain of the GoDs in general.

You're the one saying Jiren is stronger than Beerus, so it's on you to provide explicit evidence of such. If there's no direct comparison (which none of those statements give us) then there's no contradiction. It's that simple. You don't use Beerus as a benchmark for Broly (as Goku did) if Jiren is stronger than him. Makes absolutely no sense.

 

[ByAsura]

It's called power scaling, Goku is at least equal Beerus at the start of 129, and later gets significantly stronger. Jiren is also stated to be stronger than them twice.

 

[LightinAnt]

I can't be the only one who is hoping for SSJ4 down the lien after reading about Broly's Ikari form ╩ò•ß┤Ñ•╩ö

It probably will be SS4, given how they went with the "oozaru" explanation, question still remains does Broly have a tail?

 

[ZERO7772]

It probably will be SS4, given how they went with the "oozaru" explanation, question still remains does Broly have a tail?

from what I read yes, he does have a tail.

 

[Bats16]

He had a tail as a kid, but who knows if it got removed. The spoilers never mention anything about it, so it's possible that he still has it.

 

[LightinAnt]

@ZERO7772

Then there is the possibility of SS4 in the future, i mean they did canonise Broly and Gogeta and Broly's new form does look a lot like SS4

 

[The_Mysterious_Stranger_-_Delta-]

Have you not watched the anime in its entirety, or briefly read the promotional material? Have you seen the magazine that Zero linked? Perhaps Whis's statement about there being a mortal who not even a GoD can defeat.


The manga makes it clear that Jiren is only known to be stronger than Belmont, not the anime.

 

[ZERO7772]

@ZERO7772

Then there is the possibility of SS4 in the future, i mean they did canonise Broly and Gogeta and Broly's new form does look a lot like SS4

Ikr? With all the yellow eyes and stuff

 

[LightinAnt]

Jiren is only known to be stronger than Belmont

I don't know man, with the Belmonts defeating Dracula and stuff, they are not a joke

 

[The_Mysterious_Stranger_-_Delta-]

Oh, did I misspell his name? I apologize, lol.

 

[Bats16]

Have you not watched the anime in its entirety, or briefly read the promotional material? Have you seen the magazine that Zero linked? Perhaps Whis's statement about there being a mortal who not even a GoD can defeat.

The manga makes it clear that Jiren is only known to be stronger than Belmont, not the anime.

Again, link me a statement from the anime that directly compares Jiren with Beerus? Whis' statement doesn't specify Beerus at all. It says "a" GoD, which means Belmod.

 

[ZERO7772]

So the new scaling is something like this:

Gogeta > Broly >= Beerus > UI > Jiren > Goku/Vegeta

Jiren is already getting shafted Lol.

 

[Bats16]

^ That's how I have it.

And honestly, does it really matter if it's a contradiction? It wouldn't be the first time Beerus' power has fluctuated nor would it be the first contradiction in Super. Not by a long shot.

 

[The_Mysterious_Stranger_-_Delta-]

Did you like, check what ByAsura linked? The magazine from Zero? Forget the direct comparison for a second, I'd just look at what they linked first.


I mean, I saw Whis's statement as a generalization of their might in general. I thought with the succeeding evidence it made sense. I will conclude that interpreting it as a generalization is obviously fan speculation, but it's the succeeding material that got me.

 

[Peter1129]

So you're just going to ignore all the previous statements from magazines, the anime and other sources that said Jiren > Beerus. And go with a single statement from Goku who doesn't know Beerus' full power to say Beerus =< Broly > Jiren which contradicts everything previously established about the powerscaling?

 

[Bats16]

Did you like, check what ByAsura linked? The magazine from Zero? Forget the direct comparison for a second, I'd just look at what they linked first.

I mean, I saw Whis's statement as a generalization of their might in general. I thought with the succeeding evidence it made sense. I will conclude that interpreting it as a generalization is obviously fan speculation, but it's the succeeding material that got me.

I've seen it and it's not any different than what you've been telling me. There is no direct comparison between the two. Nowhere in any promotional material or in the anime is it directly stated that Jiren is stronger than Beerus.

 

[Bats16]

So you're just going to ignore all the previous statements from magazines, the anime and other sources that said Jiren > Beerus. And go with a single statement from Goku who doesn't know Beerus' full power to say Beerus =< Broly > Jiren that contradicts everything established about the powerscaling?

There's nothing vague about the statement. He says Broly might be stronger than Beerus, which means the gap is rather small. He didn't use Jiren as the benchmark, but Beerus. If Jiren was stronger then it makes absolutely no sense to use Beerus for the comparison.

 

[Peter1129]

And like I said that statement came from a character who doesn't know Beerus' full power which contradicts all previous statement. Since it's already been established that Third UIS Goku >= Beerus. And Jiren overwhelmed Third UIS Goku before he started to shift into the Complete Ultra Instinct.

 

[Bats16]

And like I said that statement came from a character who doesn't know Beerus' full power which contradicts all previous statement. Since it's already been established that Third UIS Goku >= Beerus. And Jiren overwhelmed Third UIS Goku before he started to shift into the Complete Ultra Instinct.

And as I already said, that's irrelevant because we have another statement that falls in line with exactly what Goku said, which is that Broly has power possibly surpassing a GoD. Both of those statements suggest relative parity for Broly and Beerus.

Anyway, I'm done with this argument. Offical character statements directly comparing the two characters weigh much more than fan statements. If you don't like it then oh well.

 

[Ovrhide]

Primary source >>>>> secondary source. Broly is maybe above beerus, while being absolutely above jiren. If secondary source contradicts primary source, then we know what to discard.

 

[Bats16]

Primary source >>>>> secondary source. Broly is maybe above beerus, while being absolutely above jiren. If secondary source contradicts primary source, then we know what to discard.

^ This as well

 

[Huesito88]

And like I said that statement came from a character who doesn't know Beerus' full power which contradicts all previous statement. Since it's already been established that Third UIS Goku >= Beerus. And Jiren overwhelmed Third UIS Goku before he started to shift into the Complete Ultra Instinct.

 

[ZERO7772]

This movie doesn't exactly follow the anime. stop trying to apply the anime logic to this film, we will get anime retelling at some point which should go with everything that has been established up till now.

And again recton is not out of the possibility because they did with Beerus many times already

 

[KLOL506]

Obviously the anime retelling is gonna happen. And butcher it (quality-wise OvO) and the powerscaling.

Then again the movies were never canon to begin with.

 

[Otk_linklee]

I don't usually post on this wiki because I'm mostly a lurker but I wanted to point out that there is promotional material for the manga that states that Jiren's power is said to exceed that of all Gods of Destruction, not just Vermouth or a God of Destruction. The manga is sometimes said the be the more authentic interpretation of Toriyama's vision due to his involvement in it

https://i.imgur.com/1ygLBc0.jpg

This alongside the other promotional material that states that MUI Goku's power exceeds the level of GoD and 3rd UIO Goku being around Beerus level makes me think there is more evidence for MUI Goku and Jiren to be above the level of all GoDs. Plus Goku's statement about Broly maybe being stronger than Beerus is vague and doesn't explicitly disprove that Jiren or MUI Goku is stronger than Beerus

 

[Dark649]

This movie doesn't exactly follow the anime. stop trying to apply the anime logic to this film, we will get anime retelling at some point which should go with everything that has been established up till now. And again recton is not out of the possibility because they did with Beerus many times already.

Yes, it's possible that this movie will be retold in a new future season of Super and SSBE Vegeta being added in there.

 

[Ovrhide]

Anyway, regardless of what anyone thinks, this movie changed my mind. Beerus > UI Goku > Jiren is the way i see it now

 

[ZERO7772]

It's funny seeing you change your opinion after fighting to prove UI > Beerus for so long.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Remember when Jiren showed up and Zamasu fans were up in denial that he was stronger for a while?

Jiren has become Zamasu now lmao.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Also arguing about canon is pointless as Toriyama has shown time and again that Dragon Ball Canon is as solid and durable as wet paper. If the anime gets an adaptation of this movie later on, fine. The anime adaptation is canon and the movie isn't.

f it doesn't, the movie can be considered canon for both the manga and the anime.o

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

"As expected, Broly can't do anything to Whis and Whis just rocks Broly's world, whis taunts Broly by laughing at him."

Saw that shit coming.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Anyway.

2-C Broly, Gogeta and Whis would be ******* dope. I hope the spoilers are legit.