Dragon Ball speed revision

[AKM sama]

I'll keep it straightforward.

King Piccolo Saga
Here Goku is fighting King Piccolo at close range . As King Piccolo unleashes a blast which looks exactly similar to a nuclear explosio , Tien saves Goku by outrunning the explosion using his flight.

According to this study, a nuclear explosion expands 33 meters in 0.001 seconds just after the blast. So Tien outrunning this would be MHS.

23rd Budokai
Popo to Goku: "Move faster than lightning ."

Goku to himself: "Faster than lightning! It's not easy. "

Popo to Goku: "You must move faster than lightning ", while demonstrating it to him.

This calc has been accepted which further strengthens above statements of MHS+ speeds. See Dark649's comment for scaling.


CREDITS: Firestorm808 and HrishikeshM

 

[Dark649]

There is already another thread about it here, also i recall it being rejected in the past.

 

[AKM sama]

Oh I didn't notice the other thread. But my thread has a lot more context ovo

Why was it rejected though?

 

[Dust_Collector]

Because moving faster than lightning is a figure of speech just being used to mean really fast. At no point does he actually demonstrate moving faster than actual lightning.

 

[AKM sama]

Yeah, that isn't true for all the cases though. Sometimes it can be a figure of speech but at other times it can also be literally true. Here Popo is really stressing on the point by repeated statements. Moreover, he reiterates the statement right before demonstrating his speed. This is not a one-off throw-away statement.

Mr. Popo is not a kind of guy who brags about himself either. If he is implying that he is faster than lightning while demonstrating his speed, then there is no reason to doubt him. He is a God's attendant after all.

 

[HrishikeshM]

mr popo is a reliable character too...there is no reason for him to lie or brag and he has never lied or bragged ever.

this is also a supporting feat...here tien grabs goku and outruns a blast which looks exactly like a nuclear explosion

 

[Dark649]

Tien was inferior to Popo speed at the time and that blast is likely only at Hypersonic+ speed.

 

[AKM sama]

Yeah, Tien was inferior to Popo. For the speed part, I don't know the speed of nuclear explosions so you'll have to ask Kepekley, Assaultwaffle or other calc group members. It is likely less than the speed of lightning anyway, so it wouldn't disturb the scaling either.

 

[Firestorm808]

@Dark649

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U.../Piccolo_Junior's_23rd_Budokai_Ki_Blast_Speed

In regards to your comment in my blog post above, I have already taken @Kepekley23 and @Antoniofer comments into consideration of the 1515 km in method two. Unfortunately, no one has given a more recent review of it.

 

[HrishikeshM]

the speed of the nuclear explosion is really high at the centre during the start of the explosion...however i will ask one of the calc group members

 

[HrishikeshM]

according to this research/experiment, nuclear explosion travels 33 meters in 0.001 seconds only...so it is like high hypersonic+ to massively hypersonic

 

[Dark649]

I will call Kep to check the two Piccolo's feats.

 

[Kepekley23]

The calc is usable, but we have to regulate scaling.

 

[Dark649]

The calc is usable, but we have to regulate scaling.

That's easy.

Piccolo, Annin and Goku: Massively Hypersonic+.

Kami, Garlic Jr, Tien, Krillin, Yajirobe, and Popo: At least Massively Hypersonic.

Yamcha, Chiaotzu and Tao: Massively Hypersonic.

Can you calc King Piccolo nuclear speed feat to scale the lower characters?.

 

[Firestorm808]

@Kepekley23

Thank you for your support and review. After months on the wait list, my post has finally been accepted.

 

[AKM sama]

I checked the Piccolo's nuclear blast feat and I think I should provide some context regarding it.

Basically what happens is Piccolo fires a blast at injured Goku. The distance between them is also less. After the blast has been fired and the explosion occurs, we see that Tien was able to successfully grab Goku and outrun the blast.

Going by the link HrishikeshM provided, nuclear blasts travel 33 meters (about 100 feet) in 0.001 seconds. The speed of the expansion would be around Mach 100 (it could be a little higher/lower depending on what the speed of sound is taken to be).

 

[Dark649]

It is better for it to be calced.

But if the blast is MHS, then from Tien to Chiaotzu is that speed, those on Kami level receiving the at least and those on Goku level the +, That's it.

 

[AKM sama]

So in other words

Low 6-B would become MHS+

High 6-C would become At least MHS

And if Tien's feat is taken into account then Tien and above would become MHS, right?

I updated the OP.

 

[HrishikeshM]

bump

 

[Dark649]

So in other words
Low 6-B would become MHS+

High 6-C would become At least MHS

And if Tien's feat is taken into account then Tien and above would become MHS, right?

I updated the post.

Basically:

Low 6-B+: Massively Hypersonic+.

High 6-C: At least Massively Hypersonic.

8-A to 6-C: Massively Hypersonic if the attack Tien outrunned is indeed MHS.

 

[Kepekley23]

King Piccolo's city buster isn't anywhere near MHS if that's the feat you guys are talking about. It expanded about 12 kilometers in, say, 3 seconds, which is Hypersonic+

 

[AKM sama]

That was not the main point. The speed of expansion of these blasts goes on decreasing as time passes by. We are not talking about the average speed.

Sure, it's average speed after 3 seconds comes out to be hypersonic+. But according to the study, it's initial speed after 0.001 seconds covering 33 meters would be MHS.

 

[Dark649]

Kep, do you agree with Goku and Piccolo being MHS+, those on Tien level being at least MHS and those on Yamcha level MHS and Chiaotzu at least HH+?.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

If we don't treat explosions like nuclear blasts for AP, which is why we do the whole divide-by-2 thing for explosions feats, we won't do the opposite when it comes to speed.

 

[AKM sama]

Well, not every blast has to be treated as a nuclear explosion. But this blast in question looks exactly identical.

 

[Kepekley23]

Which...doesn't mean much at all.

 

[AKM sama]

Why not?

 

[Kepekley23]

Because it's still not a nuclear blast

 

[Dark649]

Also, now that i think about it Tien being MHS at that point of the story is something that we should disagree since he barely got stronger and faster when Goku fought him.

 

[AKM sama]

If an explosion after expansion looks like a nuclear blast, then that means it expanded like a nuclear blast too. If it's speed was any different, it would have changed the whole shape and size of the explosion.

That is the whole reason nuclear explosions look different than normal bomb blasts.

 

[Kepekley23]

What are you talking about? Tien at the 23rd Budokai has already surpassed King Piccolo, while before that he was unable to take Drum on

 

[Theglassman12]

@Dark wasn't Tien training with Yamcha and Krillin as well as Master Roshi?

 

[Dark649]

I referred when he went to fight Drum, he clearly got stronger and faster in the 23rd Budokai.

 

[Theglassman12]

Oh, well yeah, the only thing that changed is that he's knowledgeable of the Mafuba.

 

[AKM sama]

Also, now that i think about it Tien being MHS at that point of the story is something that we should disagree since he barely got stronger and faster when Goku fought him.

Don't we scale him and Goku to Tao during the 22nd TB? It should also be noted that Goku trained extensively during the 3 years time-skip after fighting Tao and before the tournament.

 

[Kepekley23]

@AKM

That's false. The only reason why nuclear blasts are fast is because the thermal radiation emitted by the activation makes the air around the blast heat up at an extremely fast pace. As it expands and cools down, the fireball slows down and becomes similarly sluggish.

Since King Piccolo's fireball doesn't do any of this due to the lack of radiation, it's objectively nowhere near as fast in expansion. The feat itself shows this. Even a 40 megaton blast expands far faster than King Piccolo's EDW did.

 

[AKM sama]

@Kep

You are right about the thermal radiation being the factor in speed. But the initial speed is what plays a pivotal role in shaping the explosion.

We don't have to care about what makes King Piccolo's blast heat up, we should just focus on the effect it produces. And it would have been impossible for his blast to look like that if it did not produce that kind of speed in the first place.

 

[Kepekley23]

It isn't impossible because ki blasts somehow make the blast look like that. How? We don't know. Since the actual explanation for how it happens in real life is not present, I have zero reason to believe the real speed is also present.

 

[AKM sama]

Well, ki blast ceases to exist as soon as it hits the target. So it's just the sheer energy and force which creates the explosion. In this case, it produced an explosion identical to a nuke so we should treat it that way.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I have a better question.

Is that a majin Android 21 avi?