Dragon Ball speed revision

[Dark649]

Don't we scale him and Goku to Tao during the 22nd TB? It should also be noted that Goku trained extensively during the 3 years time-skip after fighting Tao and before the tournament.

I should have specified that the period i'm talking about is the one when he got defeated by Drum, not the 23 Budokai. I will not repeat it again.

 

[Kepekley23]

Except it isn't identical to a nuke as I've already proven, so King Piccolo's blast doesn't travel at the same speed. We shouldn't treat it as a nuke when it's objectively not one.

Also:

> > You are right about the thermal radiation being the factor in speed. But the initial speed is what plays a pivotal role in shaping the explosion.

No, it doesn't at all. Fireballs are shaped like that because of the radiation in the air, too. Once the air around it cools down, the thermal radiation gets transported around the blast radius and spread out, which is how the blast gets its hemispherical shape.

So this is also incorrect.

 

[Kepekley23]

It expanding at Hypersonic+ speeds is consistent with non-nuclear gases, which can be around Mach 10. So, since it is more akin to that, it gets that treatment.

 

[AKM sama]

@Dark

I am also talking about the same time. His speed rating at that point comes from scaling from Tao Pai Pai. But Goku and co. trained after facing Tao since there was a time-skip. So they would have grown faster before entering 22nd tournament or during the King Piccolo saga..

 

[Dark649]

That timeskip is not remotely as impressive as the ones from the 23 Budokai or to the Saiyan Saga. There are also no statement of them saying they got faster.

 

[AKM sama]

"Except it isn't identical to a nuke as I've already proven, so King Piccolo's blast doesn't travel at the same speed. We shouldn't treat it as a nuke when it's objectively not one."

Well, it looks exactly the same. The reason you said it isn't was based on thermal radiation of a nuclear blast. And since we don't know the complete mechanics of his blast, we only have 1 factor of comparison. And that is it's appearance.

 

[AKM sama]

That timeskip is not remotely as impressive as the ones from the 23 Budokai or to the Saiyan Saga. There are also no statement of them saying they got faster.

There is. Master Roshi said Goku got much stronger during the time skip.

 

[Kepekley23]

Its appearance, which is also supposed to be based off of the thermal radiation that it sorely lacks, as I have already explained.

Hypersonic+ is the safer and more likely bet, so it takes precedence.

 

[Dark649]

There is. Master Roshi said Goku got much stronger during the time skip.

Stronger yes, but not much faster.

 

[AKM sama]

Its appearance, which is also supposed to be based off of the thermal radiation that it sorely lacks, as I have already explained.
Hypersonic+ is the safer and more likely bet, so it takes precedence.

How can you tell his blast lacks the thermal radiation just by looking at a picture lol? Also, ki blasts and explosions do produce heat, so there is thermal radiation.

 

[Kepekley23]

Also, even its appearance is nothing like an actual nuclear blast.

 

[AKM sama]

Also, even its appearance is nothing like an actual nuclear blast.

That's not the explosion I am referring to.

 

[Kepekley23]

There is heat, of course. Nothing like an actual nuke releases, either.

The low end takes precedence, as always. Hypersonic+ is more like it.

 

[AKM sama]

If it's nothing like an actual nuke, then how come it looks like one?

 

[AKM sama]

I have a better question.
Is that a majin Android 21 avi?

Yes ovo

 

[Kepekley23]

Appearance doesn't mean it's a nuke.

There is zero evidence it is a nuke other than the fact it looks like one, therefore the actual low end always takes precedence.

 

[AKM sama]

Stronger yes, but not much faster.

Strength and speed go hand in hand. He also said that Goku got much faster. I can find the scan if you'd like.

 

[Dark649]

There is no need to as i already know it. Anyway even if legit, which kep disagrees it scales only to Young King Piccolo and Post Water Goku.

 

[AKM sama]

Appearance doesn't mean it's a nuke.
There is zero evidence it is a nuke other than the fact it looks like one, therefore the actual low end always takes precedence.

That's not a very good argument.

If it appears like one after expansion, then it has expanded like one, then it's speed would be like one. Otherwise it would have taken some other shape. We should go by Occam's razor.

 

[Kepekley23]

Also, it objectively doesn't release anywhere near as much heat, since everyone inside the plane would've suffered from the sheer heat of the blast. The blast would've severely burned everyone within a 150km radius easily.

Occam's Razor agrees with me. It doesn't release as much heat, doesn't go through the same process, therefore saying it is just as fast is unfounded. The low-end says Hypersonic+, so that's how fast it is until proven otherwise.

 

[AKM sama]

Well, the plane is really far from that blast. Also, it doesn't burn people under 150 km of radius.

Anyway, I am gonna head off for now, so please don't close this thread before I get a chance to respond.

 

[Kepekley23]

The plane is only 57 kilometers away from the blast via angsizing.

This alone disproves the possibility of the heat being anywhere near what it should be in a real nuke, and thus makes way for the more solid low end.

 

[AKM sama]

It only burns upto 10 km from the blast source.

http://www.icanw.org/the-facts/catastrophic-harm/blast-heat-and-radiation/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_nuclear_explosions#/media/File:Abombdamage1945.svg

 

[Kepekley23]

Your link is talking about the Hiroshima nuke, which is over 6,000 times weaker than KP's demonwave

The heat from a nuke half the yield of King Piccolo's blast would've caused extremely severe burns even from 100 kilometers away.

 

[AKM sama]

I read and found this:

" By that time the release bomber was already in the safe zone about 45 km away."

Anyway, like I said, I'll be going now. I'll come back later to make my response.

 

[Kepekley23]

Actually, the shockwave of the bomb alone shook the plane a kilometer out of the air and nearly made the pilot crash.

 

[AKM sama]

I digress from the nuke thing.

But imho, Popo's statement should be considered true. He is a reliable character who doesn't lie, brag or overestimates himself. The statement was repeated multiple times with quite a lot of stress. He even says it right before displaying his speed.

We didn't have a supporting feat before. But now the recent calc also backs up the statement which makes it all the more believable. Now, there is no reason left for us to doubt Popo.

So I suggest, Popo and above should get a MHS+ rating.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

>Doesn't brag or lie

>Reliable

Clearly, you don't know Dragon Ball. Lord Popo is one of the most ruthless characters in the series, making Frieza look like Ninja Murasaki. ovo

 

[Magi_Hussie]

''The irony that every top tier character in Saiyan Saga has Relativistic speed while Mr. Popo still doesn't''

 

[AKM sama]

Nah, even Lord Popo doesn't brag about himself. He is infinitely faster than immeasurably omnipresent++++ and he never tells anyone ovo

 

[The_Everlasting]

I should mention that IIRC Toriyama himself has said he doesn't make people say false shit for no reason. If they're lying, it's trying to prove a point in the narrative.

 

[AKM sama]

Well yes.

He also said that the reason he gives his gods attendants is because it's easy to develop a story through conversations. He doesn't like inserting too much narration and character statements clarify things for the sake of exposition.

^ That's not me making things up. That's what he said in an interview.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

That's easy.

Piccolo, Annin and Goku: Massively Hypersonic+.

Kami, Garlic Jr, Tien, Krillin, Yajirobe, and Popo: At least Massively Hypersonic.

Yamcha, Chiaotzu and Tao: Massively Hypersonic.

Can you calc King Piccolo nuclear speed feat to scale the lower characters?.

For Saiyan Saga Mr. Popo, he should be just Relativistic since he clearly has comparable speeds to the top tiers.

 

[Firestorm808]

@Magi Hussie

Did that take place in the manga as well?

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Firestorm Sad Sigh

No, apparently it didn't and I'll remove that suggestion Smh Akira, out of all of the Anime scenes you left out from the Anime in the Manga...

 

[AKM sama]

So we all agree with the second point then? Let's apply the changes and close this thread.

 

[Antvasima]

What changes have been agreed upon, which pages would they affect, and is anybody willing to carry them out?

 

[Dark649]

Ant, the changes affect all the High 6-C characters speed like Popo to MHS+ from being faster than lightning, i'm waiting for Kep to respond if Chiaotzu, Yamcha and Mecha Tao should scale or get lower ratings.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the help.

 

[AKM sama]

Only characters on the level of Popo and above (High 6-C and above) should get MHS+ rating.

Yamcha and Mecha Tao are 6-C and Chiaotzu is High 7-A, so they should get lower ratings.