Vietthai96
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Huh???, i'm confuse here
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Dragon Ball Heroes Special Ki Additions
- Thread starter Vietthai96
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Don't remember much about info hax but the concept one doesn't, my last comment about concept has been responded by no one and DDM agreed with it.
Vietthai96
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- #563
I forgot about it, what your argument again??
Vietthai96
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Anyway, the thing is, like what Sealas said, he need to burn the Time Scroll to destroy Evil. Time Power is the only power capable of erasing Time Scroll, which will destroy Evil, since the scroll contain Evil in it, the power can either erase both scroll and the record which hold the concept, or just the record itself. To support this, the power itself always stated to be able to erase everything. Also, Time Power create Time and history which Evil is a part of it and the power can erase everything, Time Power also create Time Scroll
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I'm well aware of it being able to get rid of the evil so that doesn't help at all, you need to reply to the exact arguments that I have made. Also we never translated the influence of everything automatically including concepts directly, you should be aware of this tbh, the word "everything" is, in fact, used constantly in thousands of verses yet we never assume conceptual hax via that word before in many CRTs.
That aside, since you are only able to continue with the conceptual hax and not the Janemba stuff, can we at least agree that his AE based on concept should be removed then?
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Vietthai96
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- #567
Like i said before, able to erase everything is a supporting evidences, not the main one, the main one is Time Scroll contain Evil as an Ideas/Concept in its records, and Time Power can erase it directly
I thought we done with Janemba??, and why should his AE be removed???
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I already said that everything that I want to say about both conceptual hax and Janemba is written here literally, but if for some reason I still don't click it then I will summarize:
1. There is no scan for it affecting the concept inside the Scroll directly, you give me the scan of the Demon Realm being erased or BFR but Demon Realm is not concept.
2. If we assume that Janemba is the concept of evil then the destruction of him/the evil is NPI instead of conceptual hax.
3. My translation shows that he is evil thought instead of evil idea, although even if your translation is correct, he is stated to be the incarnation of evil as opposed to the concept of evil itself.
1. There is no scan for it affecting the concept inside the Scroll directly, you give me the scan of the Demon Realm being erased or BFR but Demon Realm is not concept.
2. If we assume that Janemba is the concept of evil then the destruction of him/the evil is NPI instead of conceptual hax.
3. My translation shows that he is evil thought instead of evil idea, although even if your translation is correct, he is stated to be the incarnation of evil as opposed to the concept of evil itself.
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Vietthai96
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1. Time power can erase the records, inside the Time Scroll, which is info and contain concept, and Sealas already stated that he can only erase Evil by burning the Time Scroll, and only Time Power can directly do so
2. Well yes it is, i said it before, it is just NPI
3. I asked peoples who know Japanese, and they gave me the same thing, in fact this scan was dated long time ago and already in translated state. Incarnation of evil here still support for Janemba being AE, since he is also stated to have no form
Anyway it is late so i going to sleep, bye
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@Vietthai96 For time stuff purification is the only thing left to discuss, the rest is the other special ki stuff.
Why exactly does concept and info hax stay again? Because I have several staff agreeing with my points with Griffin, who initially agreed with your side, conceded with my points on concept and info hax not scaling, as well as Maverick agreeing with me. That's like 3 staff members who disagree with the upgrades and at best you have DDM, which is assuming he didn't change his mind by now.
You and Dagoth haven't proven that concepts and information is a requirement to destroy the time scrolls, we've talked about it in depth and not a single scan mentions this, especially when Ahms is literally made to combat anyone Sealas fights and gets their data, nothing about getting the power necessary to destroy time scrolls.
Why exactly does concept and info hax stay again? Because I have several staff agreeing with my points with Griffin, who initially agreed with your side, conceded with my points on concept and info hax not scaling, as well as Maverick agreeing with me. That's like 3 staff members who disagree with the upgrades and at best you have DDM, which is assuming he didn't change his mind by now.
You and Dagoth haven't proven that concepts and information is a requirement to destroy the time scrolls, we've talked about it in depth and not a single scan mentions this, especially when Ahms is literally made to combat anyone Sealas fights and gets their data, nothing about getting the power necessary to destroy time scrolls.
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As I keep repeating nonstop, show me the actual evidence of the concept being directly affected. I'm well aware that they can destroy the evil so you don't need to say that again, just give me the scan they affect it directly instead of needing to nuke the Time Scrolls, which is literally what the characters said.
Well it's a short word so I don't think that my MTL is wrong but as I said it's no longer a problem for me. Anyways, the incarnation of something is the representation of an idea rather than the idea itself so him being the evil idea will be flat-out wrong here. Also you do know that having no form can be more than just conceptual being right? This is just straight-up an extremely weak argument.
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isnt COT being a void why they have NPI also i dont think that was rejected I’m pretty sure it was said that it should be possibly
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The COT is legit stated to be a non existent history (non existent space time)
Vietthai96
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Nonexistent History isn't Crack of Time though
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wait what then what was the non existent history
Vietthai96
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- #577
It is what it is, no name, nonexistent history. Crack of Time is a timeless realm beyond time and the multiverse, it is not related to nonexistent history, because if someone in Crack of Time, the manga page will directly state the name
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I guess being the embodiment of something isn't AE anymore. Prepare for a site wide revision then...
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Please elaborate regarding what you mean exactly. Which DB characters do you think have abstract existence and why?
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Janemba, for being the very embodiment of evil.
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I see
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@Antvasima I already responded to vietthai's comment about the discussion, purification is the only noteworthy thing left to discuss about Time Power.
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Hasn't been a thing for years. Not since the old Type 3 Abstract Existence, being "Abstract" for being called the embodiment of something but having nothing abstract feat wise was removed.
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Okay. It is good that you are making progress here then.
Okay. Thank you for the information.
Vietthai96
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Aside from some normal thing, major things still being contested
Anyway i want to take a short break from all of this, finish my real life work since it is close to dead-line, and finding some raw japanese scans
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we have 18 total abilities left to discuss before this thread is concluded and the changes can be made, at the very least we're making progress so there's that, and I don't mind taking a break.
Braking
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Yeah, as of now we just need to get to a middle ground on some abilities and this thread can be done
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It depends on how fast we can finish the discussion, if we're stuck with coming to a middle ground we can call you back here.
Vietthai96
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Still stucking with dead-line work, but a quick response that you can update that Power Null & Power Modification in the Advanced Level section of Dark Ki will be removed, i forgot where is the scan for them, so it can be removed, i will re-add it in the future when i find those scan
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ok, I'll wait until you're free to finish the rest of the discussion.
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Still waiting for Vietthai to come back so we can finish this discussion.
Vietthai96
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This weekend, translation for some raw japanese scans is coming since i ask translation from translator this time rather than using website to translating
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That’s good to hear
Vietthai96
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Back now, finally free time for weekend before busy again
2. Time Scrolls, pretty much, actually, non-physical. Only Time Power can affect it like i said multiple times
3. You and Dagoth haven't proven that concepts and information is a requirement to destroy the time scrolls
This is not really matters, since pretty much we don't need to "namedrop" one or two word information and concept to get the power, fiction sometime doesn't really that too specific and rather hint about it. And you pretty much can search the entire wiki with half amount of profiles have concept or info hax without "namedrop" the word. About Sealas, again it really doesn't matter, the guy already stated he need power to burn the scrolls, getting data is a part of it, i don't understand why getting data is contradict with getting power, people can pretty much power-up by collecting data and developing from those statistics they get, this is fiction. Even Demigra from heroes mainstream can learn Time Power on his own despite the guy didn't absorb Tokitoki or suck away Time Power from Chronoa.
4. If you really want us to drop the word "concept" that much then sure, Time Power can create entire timeline, flow of time which have place like Otherworld that have no concept of time
Anyway going to sleep, will come back later, have two free weekend days before getting busy again
Well, Purification can be removed, with exception of Type 3, since in game it can remove power nullification status effects that affects allies
1. I thought i already show the scans that Time Power can directly erase the records inside Time Scroll, without the need to erase both the scroll. but anyway i will re-post it again:
2. Time Scrolls, pretty much, actually, non-physical. Only Time Power can affect it like i said multiple times
3. You and Dagoth haven't proven that concepts and information is a requirement to destroy the time scrolls
This is not really matters, since pretty much we don't need to "namedrop" one or two word information and concept to get the power, fiction sometime doesn't really that too specific and rather hint about it. And you pretty much can search the entire wiki with half amount of profiles have concept or info hax without "namedrop" the word. About Sealas, again it really doesn't matter, the guy already stated he need power to burn the scrolls, getting data is a part of it, i don't understand why getting data is contradict with getting power, people can pretty much power-up by collecting data and developing from those statistics they get, this is fiction. Even Demigra from heroes mainstream can learn Time Power on his own despite the guy didn't absorb Tokitoki or suck away Time Power from Chronoa.
4. If you really want us to drop the word "concept" that much then sure, Time Power can create entire timeline, flow of time which have place like Otherworld that have no concept of time
Anyway going to sleep, will come back later, have two free weekend days before getting busy again
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