Dragon Ball heroes abilities

[ImmortalDread]

The aforementioned appears to involve the manipulation of events (causality manipulation) and fate manipulation, yet there is no conclusive evidence to suggest that these two are interconnected.

Moreover, it is possible for the "time power" can itself to achieve such outcomes without two needs to be necessarily associated.

As such, I fail to see any relevance in this regard.

 

[Planck69]

I feel like we're being rather pedantic about that. It clearly facilitates its control over causality via manipulation of time and history based on that description.

Type 4 Acausality may be fine from that.

 

[ImmortalDread]

This is not acausality type 4 to begin with
(the one Strym shared)

Also, the feat itself clarifies having more than manipulation being separated. It's time, causality (event) and fate manipulation.

 

[Reiner04]

Causality Manipulation & Fate Manipulation: Time Power governs time itself, allowing for the total control of history which in turn controls the very flow of events and all past, present and future. Its power can manipulate events to change the outcome of history and undo/reset any alteration in the timeline, or revert everything back to their initial states. Its also stated to control and manipulate fate itself. It can even affect Demons and their Realm

Maybe this?

Controls flow of events and outcomes, seems fine for Type 4.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Outcome of history means fate in definition. But again, I don't see how it is Acausality type 4 based on the description given.

There is no irregular causality system at all. And time power is definitely not "system", it's hax ability.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I mean, events are dictated from causality, so...

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

So Type 4 Acausality gets nuked too? Damn.

Except bardock who is independent from the axis of time

 

[ImmortalDread]

This is not even the point. I never disagreed that time power can all do this. I even said that event manipulation is causality manipulation since it involves cause and effect relationship.

But this is hax power, why it should have any relevance or an assumption that there is irregular causality system in that existence plane?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Except bardock who is independent from the axis of time

He is only Acasual 1 tho.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Except bardock who is independent from the axis of time

This is not acausality type 4 at all. This is being immune to any time manipulation attacks.

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

Since I'm busy atm, I'll only respond to a few abilities for now

Also, the feat itself clarifies having more than manipulation being separated. It's time, causality (event) and fate manipulation.

Due to governing time they can control history and fate. The Demons exist outside of time/history (the flow of events) entirely which is why they're unaffected by paradoxes and Bardock is unable to see into their future.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Also, may I see the scan of power time governing time itself? The scan never mention it.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Also, may I see the scan of power time governing time itself? The scan never mention it.

• Time Manipulation: Time Power grants total control over the flow of time itself, which allows users to manipulate time's flow in multiple ways, from freezing[16]/suspending[21]/stopping[22][23][24], dilating, accelerating[21] to reverting, reducing[12] and erasing time itself. Can reduce time of the entire multiverse to the point of zero, or create time and set it into motion. Time Power's sealing techniques the Time Labyrinth and Eternal Labyrinth which suspends beings in time, frozen them. Capable of freezing space-time and reversing time, or accelerating and decelerating time with special techniques/traps[11]. With Time Power, Mechikabura created Chaos Ball/Black Hole and absorbed Time itself into himself. Can affects body and conciousness[25] of the targets

 

[Planck69]

Also like, we're acting as if the default assumption is that time doesn't dictate flow of events why?

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

Also, may I see the scan of power time governing time itself? The scan never mention it.

Here's a few

 

[ImmortalDread]

Ok the evidence seems solid with reference to governing time

 

[StrymULTRA]

Good, but the "magic > science" thing should still be removed anyway.

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

Just a heads up, I'll respond to a few abilities for now and come back later due to irl bs. Vietthai has also informed me that he'll respond here later so patience would be appreciated

 

[ImmortalDread]

Good, but the "magic > science" thing should still be removed anyway.

I thought it's removed already because I remember glass debating on it in different thread.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I thought it's removed already because I remember glass debating on it in different thread.

It's not.

 

[ImmortalDread]

It's not.

Seems glass forget about it. I actually remember him debating about it with @Dagoth_OwO and @Vietthai96

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

This is not acausality type 4 at all. This is being immune to any time manipulation attacks.

He is only Acasual 1 tho.

Acausality (Types 1 & 4; He is stated to be a singularity who "escaped" from history's central axis, thus making him a similar being to Demons who are disconnected from history itself)

 

[StrymULTRA]

Ayeee, I only checked teh XV key lol

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

Chaos Manipulation: Ok, what part of "disastrous force" and mechikabura's energy messing with the planet somehow means they literally control chaos itself? By this logic literally every single dragon ball character who can destroy a planet has chaos manipulation because they're a disastrous force that can threaten the world. Unless we're treating this as the same as nuking or affecting timelines somehow equates to causality and fate hax which is just stupid in of itself.

You're incorrectly comparing planet busting to Mechikabura's feat. He literally just appeared in that timeline and plunged it into chaos as shown when all those buildings just started randomly floating up in the sky, busting a planet doesn't cause buildings to float up in the sky. Also, Mechikabura being the creator of the "Bird of Calamity" Dogidogi who can cause disaster and chaos with his presence wherever he goes would further validate Chaos Manip

Paralysis Inducement: The scan mostly shows the evil aura binding the person like a rope, not inflicting paralysis.

This is fine to go

Paralysis Inducement: So using the chains to hold them down, which the scans btw are just visual showings means they have paralysis inducement? What about this remotely implies they inflict paralysis as opposed to the fact that the chains themselves are just holding them in place? Nothing about it remotely mentions they lose the ability to move.

Like I said above

Weapon Creation and Duplication: Which one is it? Either it makes numerous weapons or it duplicates itself, you can't have both.

Pretty sure it's duplication

Paralysis Inducement: Yeah not seeing paralysis here, same with the evil ki scan, it just looks like he's making an energy whip to hold them down, not literally having them freeze on the spot.

As I said

Negating Zamasu's regen and immortality: This applies to everyone in the Core Army but this doesn't line up. We have Lagss negging Zamasu's regen and immortality from this scene, but with everyone that has universe tree powers, they have it for negging Zamasu, despite him being negged by Lagss? Which one happened first because whichever one happened first shouldn't have regen and immortality negation if he's completely fine for the next "death".

Laggs' should go, yes

Madness/Empathic/Morality hax: Is there any elaboration on this? Because I don't see madness hax or morality hax from releasing people's desires. Empathic I can see but the others I don't.

It releases the persons desires but I can agree that this is prob just Emphatic

Type 5 Immortality: Yeah none of the scans remotely imply that they're unbound by conventional life and death, especially when we have Frieza say that they're already dead and erasing their souls means they stay dead. This is at best Type 7 immortality.

Fair enough

Resistance to Disease and Death hax: Nothing is said in the two scans that they're immune to viruses, nor does it say that death spells don't work on them. Just that they're dead, which again is just type 7 immortality.

How would Death hax work on something which is already dead?

Edit: Nvm, it's prob just type 7 yeah

Acausality: Being a singularity would give him type 2 acausality, not type 1 or 4.

If having alternate timeline versions of yourself is not a contradiction to type 2 acausality, sure

Edit: As for the demons, I can agree with a normal type 1 & 4 if the evidence is not sufficient enough for a "higher degree"
The rest I'll check later.

 

[ImmortalDread]

It's not contradiction, it's actually type 2.

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

It's not contradiction, it's actually type 2.

Type 2 is if the character has no past or future. Only the present.

 

[StrymULTRA]

If having alternate timeline versions of yourself is not a contradiction to type 2 acausality, sure

Type 2: Temporal Singularity: Characters with this type of Acausality do not exist in either the past or the future, only the present. This means they cannot be affected by changes to the past, while also making them resistant to Precognition that works by viewing the future, as they do not exist within it, and Fate Manipulation, for the same reason. In essence, they are able to choose their own fates, but they remain just as vulnerable at the point in time in which they do exist.

Nothing about alternate timelines.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Type 2 is if the character has no past or future. Only the present.

And that's singularity-

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

I also have something to say about Zamasu. And about his regeneration.

I'll do that later though. If someone wants to address it for me, be my guest.

 

[God900]

How would Death hax work on something which is already dead?

There are characters which can kill death beings with death Hax, ie Yogiri

 

[StrymULTRA]

There are characters which can kill death beings with death Hax, ie Yogiri

Resistance to Death Manipulation, Age Manipulation, Disease Manipulation (Deceased characters are already dead, deceased bodies do not age, as seen in the Shin Budokai series, diseases and virus do not affect deceased characters)

I don't see any death hax working on dead characters here. This is literally just Type 7 Immortality.

 

[God900]

Resistance to Death Manipulation, Age Manipulation, Disease Manipulation (Deceased characters are already dead, deceased bodies do not age, as seen in the Shin Budokai series, diseases and virus do not affect deceased characters)

I don't see any death hax working on dead characters here. This is literally just Type 7 Immortality.

Yes, I was just giving examples of how in fiction there are characters which can already kill dead beings.
Kek, there are even some who can still absorb the the "Life force" of undeads.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Yes, I was just giving examples of how in fiction there are characters which can already kill dead beings.
Kek, there are even some who can still absorb the the "Life force" of undeads.

Okay? But it's not even a refute given there's no death hax to begin with here, that's only Type 7 Immortality, not those resistances.

 

[God900]

Okay? But it's not even a refute given there's no death hax to begin with here, that's only Type 7 Immortality, not those resistances.

Yeah, it should be removed.

Hax like physics Hax can stay, it's just that it's justifications are kinda Whack.
If I'm honest, most of these lack scans or the right justifications, not surprising Glass is trying to downgrade them now.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Yeah, it should be removed.

Hax like physics Hax can stay, it's just that it's justifications are kinda Whack.
If I'm honest, most of these lack scans or the right justifications, not surprising Glass is trying to downgrade them now.

There's not even an explanation on why Hearts is dead.

I read the Big Bang Mission manga long ago so I know that he is, but the lack of scans about that is worrying.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Any new argument aside the OP

 

[StrymULTRA]

Any new argument aside the OP

High Godly Removal and other shit here

 

[God900]

There's not even an explanation on why Hearts is dead.

I read the Big Bang Mission manga long ago so I know that he is, but the lack of scans about that is worrying.

Imao, the manga chapters are relatively short, I don't know why is it that difficult to find the scans and put then into a imgur link tbh

 

[StrymULTRA]

Imao, the manga chapters are relatively short, I don't know why is it that difficult to find the scans and put then into a imgur link tbh

Mangas aren't even longer than 15 chapters each lmao.

 

[God900]

Mangas aren't even longer than 15 chapters each lmao.

Each DBH Volume has like 5-6 chapters, and each one is hella short. So yeah, you are right