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Dragon Ball heroes abilities

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Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Yeah, which again, doesn't imply different laws or physics. Just that the two worlds are separated by one using science/technology and the other using magic. I mean, we could realistically give every alternate world that uses magic more than technology this sort of law/physics hax using the same basis, but we obviously don't do that.
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Yes but a world has magic operates with fundamentally different laws/rules than ones without the reason those magicians in the other series you mentioned don’t get law / physics hax is because magic is usually a mundane part of their world rather than super imposed over science like in the case of the demon realm
 
Theglassman12 said:
Causality, Fate, Text, Chaos, Darkness, Quantum, Space and Time hax: Ok this is a big one, so nothing in the pages that have this particular move remotely implies that it consuming the multiverse means that it has all of these abilities. Chaos hax, assuming that it's from the same reason as dark ki, is stupid beyond relief, as it's the same level of logic as affecting space and time means you affect causality and fate itself, same applies to Causality and Fate hax as nothing about the black hole implies this is happening. Darkness doesn't really say much here, just that it's leaving people in the darkness, especially with people resisting it as nothing implies the darkness does anything to them. Space and Time manipulation for absorbing and destroying the multiverse idk why the hell this is classified as space-time hax, as this is just an AP feat for the black hole destroying everything, not them controlling or warping space and time. Text manipulation is completely unjustified as nothing about the black hole is remotely implied to warp the time scrolls. By this logic everyone that can blow up a planet has plant, earth, magma, life, etc. manipulation for blowing it up. Nothing about this makes any sense. Lastly the Quantum hax, from what I can gather, this is only here because it's a black hole... despite the fact we've never done that for anyone who can make a black hole on this site. So this should be nuked unless there actually exists some evidence that quantum particles are being manipulated.
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This is like giving any characters with low 2-C nuking spacetime hax by default along with a shitload of powers just because they can indirectly destroy all the contents within the multiverse tbh, despite they can't directly manipulate it whatsoever and I'm fairly sure many characters with the same AP/range feat don't have them at all.
 
Delta333 said:
This is like giving any characters with low 2-C nuking spacetime hax by default along with a shitload of powers just because they can indirectly destroy all the contents within the multiverse tbh, despite they can't directly manipulate it whatsoever and I'm fairly sure many characters with the same AP/range feat don't have them at all.
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The chows ball got those abilities because it absorbed the multiverse and time, when it did so it gained time power a universal energy system in dragon ball heroes. Time Power has those haxes
 
segetero said:
The chows ball got those abilities because it absorbed the multiverse and time, when it did so it gained time power a universal energy system in dragon ball heroes. Time Power has those haxes
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So only time power has those abilities if it can directly influence them, not the chaos ball.
segetero said:
The quantum manipulation comes from flattening timelines which I think should be replaced with dimensional manipulation I was just giving the thread that explained the reasoning
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Note that only dimensions in a mathematical sense are included, not manipulations of hierarchical spaces merely equivalent to such, and neither does affecting entire timelines, as without further context it could be classified as an AP feat or a range feat for a particular ability.
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Dragon ball in general seems to have unnecessary abilities based on some wonky justification that either shouldnt be there or just be something entirely different
such as MUI Goku's info analysis resistance
A lot of this could probably go or be changed besides like the life energy stuff and petrification.
 
segetero said:
The quantum manipulation comes from flattening timelines which I think should be replaced with dimensional manipulation I was just giving the thread that explained the reasoning
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...Do you not know how black holes work? They flatten things by their very nature, it's called spaghettification, and that still isn't quantum hax.
 
Delta333 said:
So only time power has those abilities if it can directly influence them, not the chaos ball.
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Yes but time power is contained within the chaos ball post multiversal absorption that is why mechi gained time power after absorbing the chaos ball
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
...Do you not know how black holes work? They flatten things by their very nature, it's called spaghettification, and that still isn't quantum hax.
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Yes I do know that but they stretch matter not entire timelines (they do drastically warp space time however) also that matter is compressed to a be on a dimensionally lower form with the singularity often considered to be a point (zero dimensions)
 
segetero said:
Yes but time power is contained within the chaos ball post multiversal absorption that is why mechi gained time power after absorbing the chaos ball
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I mean that doesn't really change what I said tho, though time power can still have such abilities but anything that's written in the Chaos Ball tab should be removed due to false justification
 
Delta333 said:
I mean that doesn't really change what I said tho, though time power can still have such abilities but anything that's written in the Chaos Ball tab should be removed due to false justification
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I don’t necessarily disagree If where just changing justifications rather than removing those abilities from mechi’s profile
 
Maverick_Zero_X said:
Agree with the OP. Quantum Manipulation for creating a black hole and Chaos Ball having Causality, Fate, Text, Chaos, ect Manipulation for consuming the multiverse are especially wrong, we don't give those abilities by default like that.
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Come to think of it I agree that the wording should be changed so that it is clear that it is the Time Power that grants those abilities but they should not be removed from the profile
 
Maverick_Zero_X said:
Agree with the OP. Quantum Manipulation for creating a black hole and Chaos Ball having Causality, Fate, Text, Chaos, ect Manipulation for consuming the multiverse are especially wrong, we don't give those abilities by default like that.
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As far as I can see. We are only removing these things from ONLY chaos ball right?
 
segetero said:
Yes I do know that but they stretch matter not entire timelines (they do drastically warp space time however) also that matter is compressed to a be on a dimensionally lower form with the singularity often considered to be a point (zero dimensions)
Click to expand...
Also just to edit my comment yes space time being deformed does involve stretching curving etc I was more so trying to point out that it is not on the scale of timelines and spagettification specifically is in regards to matter
 
@BestMGQScalerEver Petrification is specifically turning the target into stone. Transmutation is a more varied version of that so it's really redundant and not correct to list someone who turns others to glass as petrification when transmutation does that.

@1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void Everything I listed in the OP is what's being removed/changed. Chaos ball is one of the more egregious examples but everything else I'm questioning the validity unless the supporters can provide more context for the abilities.

@segetero Did you read my refute to the quantum hax at all? I literally gave examples of character who have black hole creation on their page but do NOT have quantum hax because they made a black hole. You don't slap extra hax into a character for making a black hole unless you can provide evidence that they can do that. Also you don't have to post multiple times in a single response, just make one big response, it takes too much unnecessary space when you comment more than once for a response.

@Maitreya Not really, the scan for them "making the demon world" said that they were sealed away in a separate space, and in that separate space is where they build their kingdom and have it be the demon realm. It's one thing entirely if it was a void and they made everything from scratch down to its creation, but nothing in the scan implies that.

@godofice the whole "science not having much influence over magic" is another way of saying there's more wizards than scientists in the demon realm, which given the context on how Demigra, Towa, etc. are all wizards who end up becoming gods it makes sense. This is hardly different from how Harry Potter worlds are shown where the Muggle world and Wizarding world are different in where one focuses more on magic than science, but that doesn't mean everyone in the wizarding world gets physics and law hax for having more magical influence than science.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@BestMGQScalerEver Petrification is specifically turning the target into stone. Transmutation is a more varied version of that so it's really redundant and not correct to list someone who turns others to glass as petrification when transmutation does that.
Click to expand...
Petrification is considered to be a sub-category of transmutation, it forcibly turns the target into a statue of stone or other inorganic material. Generally petrification can be considered to be a very broken ability, as it ignores conventional durability. Being able to withstand a nuke won't exactly save your body from being turned into stone, after all.
Click to expand...
So as it stands petrification still fits.
 
@BestMGQScalerEver Transmutation also has this

Transmutation is the ability to alter the form of energy, beings, objects, matter, etc. to change it into something else.
Click to expand...

Petrification is too specific of an ability, and is always related to turning someone into stone. Transmutation fits what Lagss is doing better.
 
Theglassman12 said:
Did you read my refute to the quantum hax at all? I literally gave examples of character who have black hole creation on their page but do NOT have quantum hax because they made a black hole. You don't slap extra hax into a character for making a black hole unless you can provide evidence that they can do that. Also you don't have to post multiple times in a single response, just make one big response, it takes too much unnecessary space when you comment more than once for a response.
Click to expand...
I was more so trying to prevent the time power haxes listed under the chaos ball from being out rite removed from mechi’s profile because those abilities come from time power not creating a black hole as for the quantum manipulation I thought it should be replaced with dimensional manip because it flattened timelines. Also sorry for taking to much space with with little comments that could have been a bigger comment.
 
@segetero that's not even stated what the Black Hole does, it doesn't flatten timelines, it just consumed and erased them, plus affecting timelines doesn't count for dimensional manipulation anymore. Also it getting time powers doesn't mean it consuming the multiverse would give it causality and fate hax.
 
I'll get here with more haxes to downgrade, because killing Infinite Zamasu's concept AE was not enough at all.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@segetero that's not even stated what the Black Hole does, it doesn't flatten timelines, it just consumed and erased them, plus affecting timelines doesn't count for dimensional manipulation anymore. Also it getting time powers doesn't mean it consuming the multiverse would give it causality and fate hax.
Click to expand...
Eh? Was it not removed already? We had this discussion in the relevant DM thread.
 
This entire thing made me wonder just how unmodered the DBH/XV pages are.

Stuff on Demon Physiology
Issue issue issue... These two things contradict each other and Demons explicitly never regenerated from Mechi's crap. For one, Trunks and co were rescued from Mechi's black hole without physical arm. Second, Mechi never destroyed said timelines, only absorbed them. And the Timelines were simply taken from Mechi's body from TokiToki. So unless you think that Timelines have Low Godly regen, you know that's dumb.

So overtime Low Godly and Immortality 3 issa ******* no-no. It shouldn't even be Regeneration to begin with.
  • Acausality Type 4
This is another ******* proof on how DB fans can't interpret anything outside for highballing. The scan only says that demons use magic and not science, not that magic is used instead of laws of physics or whatever nonsense lmao.



This scan says instead that the living universe is only based on ours, so it's not evidence for anything.



Being separated from the flow of time maybe is still Type 4 Acausality given that Lavos, Exdeath and others for being in similar realms, but I am unsure lol.

DBH Fusion Zamasu
  • High-Godly
We all know that Fusion Zamasu is not concept AE anymore after this CRT, but apparentely this dialogue is used as evidence for why Zamasu is """"concept"""" for the non-canon version.



See the issue? Fu was never talking about Infinite Zamasu, but only about how Goku Black/Zamasu's ideas are way too convoluted compared to his way simpler goals.

"But but but Infinite Zamasu appeared in Xenoverse 2!!"

And I don't give a damn? Because Infinite Zamasu appears only in DLC 4 (as you can see also on the Steam page), while Fu only appears in DLC 6 (or called also Extra Pack 2) in his 1st appearance (Steam page).

So yeah, those are poorly connected things in a poor attempt at wanking again. They're not related at all, so High Godly must disappear as well.

"But but history erasure!!!!"

It's pretty ******* funny how actually no history erasure was mentioned at all, as Zamasu's death is part of history, implying that still exists too.

Not to mention that @PrinceofPein said that if people still remember a character, then their history is not fully erased, and Zamasu was remembered indeed across both canon and all the other medias.

Stuff on Time Power
There's something very weird with this...

As the power is shown to be able to nullify Dark Shenron's wishes, it can possibly nullify the powers of the other Eternal Dragons, like Super Shenron (SDBH)'s power that granted regeneration-type immortality upon Fusion Zamasu (SDBH), allowing Zamasu to return even after Zeno erasing him as Infinite Zamasu - the abstract ideas of order and justice of the universe, along with the timeline

Where are the scans of that? Because I can allow a "possibly Mid Godly negation" but without scans that should go as well.

And that's all ig.

Agree with anything @Theglassman12 said btw.
 
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@StrymULTRA Exdeath has type 4 acausality because he's removed from the concept of time completely due to being a demon in Final Fantasy. Being separated from the flow of time could also just be type 1 acausality depending on context but yeah.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@StrymULTRA Exdeath has type 4 acausality because he's removed from the concept of time completely due to being a demon in Final Fantasy. Being separated from the flow of time could also just be type 1 acausality depending on context but yeah.
Click to expand...
I mean that Acausality 4 is maybe still fine, given how they're disconnected from time completely.

Maybe we can give them an "Likely Type 4" lol.
 
Acausality type 4 is not administered due to its complete disconnection from time. Our standards dictates that causality and time be inherently linked, and this criterion has to be proven.
 
StrymULTRA said:
Mind elaborating?
Click to expand...
Note: Being completely independent of time or laws; or similar forces, does not make you completely independent of causality without the relationship between these forces and causality being clarified, with it only being considered as evidence for an irregular relationship with causality otherwise.
Click to expand...
This is for Acausality type 4 and type 5.
 
ImmortalDread said:
Not really, it's just you need to prove that causality and time are interconnected within the verse.
Click to expand...
Causality Manipulation & Fate Manipulation: Time Power governs time itself, allowing for the total control of history which in turn controls the very flow of events and all past, present and future. Its power can manipulate events to change the outcome of history and undo/reset any alteration in the timeline, or revert everything back to their initial states. Its also stated to control and manipulate fate itself. It can even affect Demons and their Realm

Maybe this?
 
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