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Dragon Ball Headcanon

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Missy0124

Missy0124

653
25
contined from here https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2803042#25

okay i go bed right then a few hours later somebody censors my thread and starts headcanoning. Great can somebody here without having a entitled headcanon and show official statements or facts from writers backing your narrative. Cause it seems no one here can cause Firestorm808 used geekdom's video as a point of evidence when it had nothing to do with your point. Me saying gt is canon to the anime is my option not a fact and i don't have sources to prove a claim like that. I even said this is a option don't take it as fact

Antoniofer

said this in quote

I would say that "Toeiverse" is more of several histories rather than one consistent continuity (few movies do not fit with each other). And no, Super Anime is no more canon than Kai nor the other way around; and since I'm sure that was concluded in other thread, I think this one should be closed.

Can prove any of that non sense you just made up aside from the kai and toei point which is common sense as you can't assume one over the other as that is headcanon. You guys actively scale movie viilians to anime characters so i don't think you think you really belive what your saying with the histories standpoint and it does not come as a valid point as it contricts that claim and again to censor me at 2 o clock in morning and assuming i did not have a reponse again with the assuming maybe i just went to bed and woke up to somebody headcanoning and then proceding to censor me minutes later

Firestorm808

I am not talking about canon. I am talking about continuity, a continued story. (explain the differce you have the burden of proof)

The original manga story is continued in the Super manga story. (proof and headcanon much and he super as a medium including yo son bog,manga,anime)

Dragon Ball anime story is continued with Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball GT on one branch. (proof to any of tose claims and headcanon much and alot of assuming going on there)

Later on, Toei has the Dragon Ball anime story continued in Dragon Ball Kai.(toei's anime does contine into kai have you even seen anything relating to dragon ball)

Dragon Ball Kai is continued with the Dragon Ball Super Anime. (proof and stop it with the assumions)
 
Generally, bringing up a topic after it has just been closed is a bad idea. At least until people forget the previous debate happened.
 
Akreious

Generally i was winning the debate so they had to censor me cause they are that confident in themselves and i don't really care as it was a bad idea to censor me in the first place. I thought the people here had more integrity than that and it was the point for them to remember as i even refered to the people that debated me in the first thread which i linked and showed them by name
 
Self-Proclaiming that you were winning and that they had to censor you so that they can retain their confidence is... also a bad idea. Given they're the ones with staff authority. :L
 
Akreious

Using their power to take advantage of lower tier members and using their status to impose their self morals on a fransise and or person,anybody who doubts gets censored okay now were rotten tomatoes for dragon ball and having authority does not mean their options are valid as most of them are just headcanon. Now i lost all integrity i once had and just a note this is applying to mostly to Antoniofer in this circumstance as anti is pretty chill and weeky is pretty nice. But if i am needing to be feared of ban or get banned for critism on a fellow member that is a abuse of their power and shows they are not compable in a postion of authority and this point is directing towards everyone mostly who any amount of power over anyone
 
GT isn't canon to Super since Super severely contradicts the lore of it (such as Freeza being alive in Super but not in GT as well as being severely underpowered, and Whis and Beerus not even getting a passing reference), and was made with little to no input from Toriyama. Movies are somewhat the same as they contain vastly inconsistent details (Gohan's age suddenly lowers in Return of Cooler etc., etc.,)

Assumptions make sense in this case if we don't want a continuosly contradicting narrative. You want us to stop real world assumption and replace them with plot assumptions instead here.

Also, author's intent doesn't really matter? Like, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s writers state it to be canon to the MCU when it clearly is secondary canon at best.

FYI, it isn't some sabotage attempt, you were just being ignorant and responding with "bUt ThErE's No pRoOf", as well as the fact that this was brought up before and concluded as well.

Also can you clarify what do you want revised here exactly? Because this feels more like a QnA thread.
 
Kai should be canon to Super (anime) for tha sake of consistency. It would make 4-A tournament fodders and 2-C God tiers. Dbz anime and Movies happen before GT, although some of the movies are a little contradictory. The DBZ Manga should come before the DBS manga because technically the DBS manga should be ahead of the anime (especially now).

Code: 
This format is like the most common sense format out there.
 
Akira Toriyama stating that GT doesn't follow his manga.

https://www.kanzenshuu.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/wj_1996_no13_db_if_you_please.jpg

Dragon Ball GT follows the original Dragon Ball Z Anime
http://www.dragonballgt.com/sagas/

DRAGON BALL GT
WITNESS THE ACTION AS POWER LEVELS RISE AND PLANETS EXPLODE.
THE ULTIMATE ACTION ADVENTURE
After surviving trials that would have destroyed a mere mortal, Goku now faces the most dangerous journey of his entire life. Evil forces have conspired to scatter the Dragon Balls to the far corners of the universe, and the atmosphere is dense with danger. Unless the heroic Saiyan can recover all seven magic orbs within a year, Earth will meet a catastrophic end!

Even if Goku is successful on his mission of mercy, threats remain that must be dealt with swiftly. Two evil geniuses have created the perfect killing machine: Android 17. While this mechanical abomination deals out death, terrifying villains from battles past rise up to wreak havoc on humanity, and cracks in the Dragon Balls give birth to the fury of seven Shadow Dragons! Goku is the only warrior live with the strength to defeat these new evils, but one false step from the mighty Saiyan could spell doom for the world!

http://www.dragonballgt.com/sagas/blackstar

BLACK STAR DRAGON BALL SAGA
THE START TO THE FINAL ADVENTURE.
THE LOST EPISODES
10 years have passed since Goku and Uub left their friends and families to train in order to hone their skills to perfection. But Goku soon finds himself helpless against the mystical power of the Dragon balls and an accidental wish made by the devious Emperor Pilaf. His desire; that Goku once again become a child!

Not daunted by this small setback, Goku, together with the new president of Capsule Corporation, Trunks, and his own granddaughter, Pan, blast off into the outer reaches of space in search of the mysterious Blackstar Dragon balls. But these Dragon balls have a fatal secret: if not collected within 1 year the planet on which the last wish was made will be destroyed. The current target: Mother Earth herself!

With the Dragon balls scattered across the entire galaxy, the heroes stumble upon new friends, ferocious enemies, and extraordinary beings never encountered before. Dragon ball GT follows Goku's search for the Dragon balls with the hope that he can be wished back into adulthood and that Earth might be spared.

Dragon Ball GT cannot follow Dragon Ball Super
There are several inconsistencies

  • General Rildo's strength is compared to Majin Buu, the last major enemy Goku faced.
  • Gods of Destruction
  • Multiverse
  • Universal levels of Power
  • God Ki
  • Angels
  • Ultra Instinct
 
Dragon Ball Kai is a remake of the original Dragon Ball Z Anime, and in turn, follows the original Dragon Ball Anime storywise

https://www.kanzenshuu.com/episode/kai/

"In early 2009, Toei Animation officially announced (in Weekly Shōnen Jump issue #11) that a "refreshed" version of the Dragon Ball Z TV series, re-titled Dragon Ball Kai (µö╣; Kai meaning "renewed" or "revised"), was being produced for a high-definition presentation in honor of its 20th anniversary."
 
OP says that "I want a more defined canon with more sources to prove what your saying about it and being more define on your logic and better scaling for the toei characters as well as others."
 
I believe that is what Toei is implying with using Kai footage in Super, especially in the first episode.
 
People don't get pinged when you link to their name btw. If you think that's gonna get him to come to your thread you gotta ask him instead.
 
As I said prior, this is only my opinion. I'm fine with how the continuities are currently handled.
 
Why do people want kai to be canon to super again?

isn't it just an edited version of the original toei anime?

How is it even relevant when we already have profiles for a complete version of said anime?
 
In my flow chart, there are two possible ways to interpret the Dragon Ball Super Anime continuity. One path through the manga and the storyboards, and another through Kai.

Again, following the manga and storyboards to Super Anime/Manga is the most faithful representation.
 
Here's a much more accurate representation of the flow chart continuities with the current profiles.

Dragon Ball Continuities 2
 
Firestorm808

Yea the movies are non canon. I seen the interview before and that's why i am against the movies being in the adaption of the manga and no source siting them to be canon to gt or the anime for that matter and AguilaR101 is right as it is just a edited version of the original toei anime in hd and without alot of the filler.

Kai footage is repeatedly used in Super,The very first episode of Dragon Ball Super begins footage directly from Dragon Ball Kai but like Matthew Schroeder said it is the only hd footage they have of the anime to use. The video you showed before of geekdom did show that some frames are made for kai but most aren't as it is just a hd remake to fill a timeslot. A defined canon allows for a better scaling system then we have now which would allow for more accurate character potrayals of power so no im trying qanda people


Firestorm808

Here's how I see the current continuities (does not matter how you see it it's up to the writers and staff on projects to decide what canon is not you or a voice actor for a dub of funimation) The link you used had a point in my favor showing him saying he had long since wrote dragon ball even wondering if he still draw goku good and seen dragon ball as done. Which my point being his narrative has been complete in his eyes making super,gt,movies invalid in terms of canon as his narrative has been complete and long since done in the writers eyes.

Zark2099

Never thought GT was canon to super to begin with but go put words in my mouth and i just think it is a contination of the anime like super. Being made by toei supports this. Using agents of shield as a non canon story example is dumb as the mcu is as it says a cinematic universe and has greater narrative possibity than the adventures of one mortal saiyan among gods.The fact that Agent phil coulson from shield revial gets explained later on as he got revived from the avengers movie at the hands of loki and showing guest appeaces from so called main canon sources such as sif The netflix shows as a whole would be a better secondary canon as a whole as they tie into almost nothing except the avengers fight in new york and other companies that apeeared in other movies.
 
Are we at least on the same page that Dragon Ball Chou follows the original Dragon Ball Manga, supplemented by the links I gave earlier?
 
Firestorm808

Yea i can argee with that and it is weird how they never use the term canon but for a canon installment i can't say yes or no as they never elboarate on it being canon just it being a sequel to the manga and the fact that toriyama also seen his story as complete. The GT links never mentioned the anime or the fact it could a sequel to that

Spinoirr

Heroes is video game and spinoff of the main media platform which in this case the dragon ball manga so in terms of canon it is irreavant in this Discussion
 
In all honesty, Missy, what sort of statements regarding "canon" are you expecting from Bird Studio, Toei, and Jump? The term "canon" has never been used by the Dragon Ball franchise.

Due to the limited number of statements, the community has been basing narrative continuity on their order of production, story, and writing team.
 
Firestorm808

well just cause they don't have a canon in mind that don't mean we form our own as were not the creators. Basing it on production order would end up in heroes and super being at the same time. What am i expecting some form of reasoning not really as we got a half done recap defination of the goku black timeline not much really
 
In what way does production order or story make Dragon Ball Z and Super Dragon Ball Heroes in the same continuity?
 
Firestorm808

the community has been basing narrative continuity on their order of production, story, and writing team. (key word in there is their continuity)

How does production order have anything to do with narrative continuity
 
Firestorm808

I meant super but okay you said production order with narrative continuity and i took it literal with the farthest example possible to exaggerate my point. My guess on what you meant was using recent statements by production order and recent story threads to elaborate a canon with the infomation available from that production time
 
Let's just take this step by step and start from the beginning.

In regards to the original anime, the "Original Toei Continuity" is based on the original broadcast. From 1986 to 1997, the original broadcast of the Dragon Ball anime in Japan by Toei Animation included Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, the various movies, and Dragon Ball GT. This should include all the filler that Toei produced during this time.
 
Firestorm808

The Movies are non canon by a statement in which you showed and there are little connections in the story of certain movies to the anime and and from a production standpoint there no statements for a connection being there ether. GT has a close tie in to the buu saga and it is made by toei put two and two together. I would say it is more of a group like you sugested rather full out canon. Super Saiyan bardock is from a ova to promote heroes as is hatchiyack so should both be video games by normal logic
 
If you recall, Toriyama states that they are "stories in a different dimension from the main story of the comic." The Anime by Toei is not the comic/manga.
 
I don't understand how Kai and Super are treated as connected on this wiki. Filler characters from Kai appear in the Super Anime but they're nowhere to be found in the Super Manga. Even freaking Gregory, a favorite of Toriyama's, isn't in the manga at all. There was even a flashback to an anime exclusive scene and that was Trunks turning ssj for the first time, which was never shown in the manga.

Excuse_me.jpg
 
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