Dragon Ball GT powerscaling

[Matthew_Schroeder]

This is what would make Omega Shenron 3-B:


It is a long-term chain-reaction due to the overflow of Minus energy, which would at first take time to consume a single planet, then move on to consume the neighboring planets, until the solar system was consumed, then move on to consume the neighboring star-system until the galaxy was consumed, and then finally the other galaxies until the universe was consumed.

Not only is this a long-term thing, but it is a chain-reaction which leads to the rate of consumption to become exponentially higher with the passage of time. It is not a power that Omega can employ in battle in any way, shape or form. If he could employ 3-B levels of energy with this ability immediately, it would destroy the entire local group instantly, and not take a long period of time to occur.

 

[Kepekley23]

• Syn = Goku (for the sake of simplicity)

• Omega = 10x Syn (stated)

• Gogeta = "several dozen times" Goku and/or Vegeta (stated)

• Several = more than 2, but not many. So at least 3

• Gogeta = 36x Goku and Vegeta at least, likely 48x

Therefore:

• Gogeta = 3.6 to 4.8 times stronger than Omega.

 

[Kepekley23]

Matt, that's not what makes Omega 3-B.

Also, I agree that scene is super vague

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Are we positively sure that the translation is accurate? Galaxies has 0 plural on japanese. It is just as likely, and more believable, that it was just one. And the dialogue doesn't imply that it was immediate at all.

 

[Kepekley23]

3 different translators, one of them ALRF, said it was plural. I see no reason to doubt it.

 

[Kepekley23]

Also, it is apparently "all the galaxies around that star', which explains plural (since "ginga' alone can vary, but when it is coupled with "all", it is obviously plural)

 

[ALRF]

Context matter here, and this is quote "galaxies" is better than "galaxy"

 

[Sera_EX]

ALRF's translation is spot-on (heck, I got roughly the same thing).

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Finally the most badass transformation on DB gets an upgrade.

This looks good to me.

 

[Kepekley23]

Also, some guy named EnderShadow is bothering me on FC-OC and demanding satisfaction from the upgrades. I closed it after he began to dwelve into calling me stubborn and cocky, though.

 

[Ryukama]

My main thing was to have 4 galaxy Dragon Ball gotten rid of, since as I said I find it to be the VS debate equivalent of flat earth. And to be based on some of the most disingenuous cherrypicking out there. I'm not too passionate about having the other stuff get through.

However SSJ1 has always been superior to KKx20. I don't think Rildo making some statement of "you weren't even going half as hard" (which "not even half as" is usually a figure of speech to mean not that much) should be used to deny that.

Also there's another scene where Rildo calls SSJ a hundred times increase

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXA8AGhYnzk&t=0m55s

I don't think that 100x should really be used either. But I still say that SSJ is at the very least a greater than 20x increase. Not a 2-3.

If all those translators agree with multiple galaxies, then I think it's just fine to use. We can use that instead of Negative Karma Ball if that is so contested. However I think that it gradually destroying the universe in a short enough timeframe for there to be urgency as Old Kai described should be 3-B.

 

[Kepekley23]

That 100x statement is FUNimation dub only. The original version simply has Rildo say Goku's power was absolutely incredible or something along those lines, IIRC.

I checked this page (which compiles all of the Japanese GT strength-related quotes) and didn't find anything similar.

 

[Ryukama]

Regardless, I still don't think we should call SSJ a 2 times increase, even though it's blatantly superior to KKx20, based on some likely figure of speech made by Rildo. Also I can't find anything similar to said half statement in that page either.

 

[Kepekley23]

@Ryu

I went online and found out that's actually the part where Rildo says Goku hasn't been using even half of his power. They changed it to "your battle-power has increased a hundredfold" for some reason.

 

[Ryukama]

Where did you find this video? I went to episode 19 subbed and found no such statement. Which either way I still disagree with such a line taking precedence over the blatant, easily proven fact that it's above 20x.

 

[Kepekley23]

Episode 19 of GT, roughly 19m40s. Make sure to check it's actually episode 19, since FUNi ignored the first 16 episodes and only aired 48.

The problem is, in Toei Animation's works there are several parts of the anime that imply Super Saiyan is a small boost:

1. On that filler where Goku is inside of Super Boo and meets a clone of Gohan and Piccolo, he fights evenly with Ultimate Gohan in his base form and then turns Super Saiyan and still takes some time to finish him. This clearly implies Super Saiyan was a small boost there.

2. When Goku fought Meta-Cooler, he fought evenly with him in his base form and still had trouble even after turning into a Super Saiyan

So, 2.5x is actually likely.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Why is GT Trunks so low?

He casually one shotted Yakon, who's Kili made him stronger than Base Buu Arc Goku (Like, for some Godd**n reason he is scale from FRIEZA SAGA Goku, like, why tf?). Also, take into account this was Noncanon Yakon.

And Gohan fought off SSJ Goten possessed in base form

 

[Kepekley23]

Trunks explicitly states Piccolo is stronger than him, which makes him around 4-B at most in the beginning of GT, and 4-A near the end (at the very best)

 

[Ryukama]

Yeah I still can't find a sub of it anywhere.

In either of those two instances there is the likelihood of such villains initially holding back their power, which is often the case in DB. And the anime also has SSJ shown to be far above KKx20, which has always been a basic fact of the series.

DB is inconsistent at times, however I think something as completely basic as SSJ forms > Kaioken should take precedence over a couple of instances that might suggest otherwise.

I mean c'mon are we really going to have SSJ3 as a lesser multiplier than Kaioken? Why does Goku even bother with these forms when this godly Kaioken dwarfs all of them?

 

[Kepekley23]

Well, if you want to make it above 20x, it's fine. I'm just saying there's a line that gives us a general idea of how powerful Goku'd be.

 

[Ryukama]

The things I've been adamant about are not having misinformation on the profiles, rather than upgrades. And I find 4 galaxies and Kaioken being above SSJ3 to be blatant misinformation.

So with this increase they'd still be 4-A until SSJ4? Right?

 

[Kepekley23]

4-A, but yes.

 

[Ryukama]

Yeah that was a typo. 4-A.

Should any of the forms have an "At least" or a +? They seem to be quite casually above that, and mathematically reaching rather close to 3-C.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Also, some guy named EnderShadow is bothering me on FC-OC and demanding satisfaction from the upgrades. I closed it after he began to dwelve into calling me stubborn and cocky, though.

My apologies for replying here but I just wanted to let Kep know I think I remembet him since he did the same thing to me regarding another verse. IIRC he is a former member from here but I wouldnt think too much on it.

That is all. Please excuse me.

 

[Dark649]

Trunks explicitly states Piccolo is stronger than him, which makes him around 4-B at most in the beginning of GT, and 4-A near the end (at the very best)

4-B is ok for him, Pan too.

 

[Ryukama]

Oh yeah Ultimate Shenro should also be upgraded to 3-C.

 

[Dark649]

There is also a range upgrade for them, also Transformed Janemba, Transformed Hirudegarn and SS Gogeta might be affected from this since i think there is not a big gap with Buutenks and Baby Vegeta 1.

 

[Kepekley23]

Super Baby Vegeta 1 > Vegito, so probably not.

 

[Dark649]

Super Baby Vegeta 1 > Vegito, so probably not.

Where is it stated?.

 

[Kepekley23]

Goku states Baby Vegeta 1 has the strongest ki ever

 

[Promestein]

I'm fine with this stuff, though perhaps "At least 3-C, likely 3-B" would be more appropriate for Omega Shenron and Gogeta?

 

[Ryukama]

I think if BSS destroyed what numerous translators agree to be multiple galaxies, and Omega has an attack that would've gradually destroyed the universe over a relatively short timeframe that Gogeta easily negated with a kick, they can be straight up 3-B.

 

[Promestein]

Alright, sounds fine.

 

[Theglassman12]

I have a question, considering old Kai said that the evil energy would rot away the planet, and soon the galaxy, would that give Omega some sort of age manipulation, or is it too vague?

 

[Kepekley23]

It sounds more like passive Matter Manipulation.

 

[Kaltias]

It honestly sounds like him being too strong and stuff being obliterated as a result.

Like when they power up and obliterate the surroundings, but to a much much greater degree

 

[PaChi2]

Staff only.

 

[Ryukama]

I also think that this seems to make sense.
However, somebody will need to remove the 4 galaxies mention from the Dragon Ball GT and Discussion Rules pages.

Since the debunking of 4 galaxies has been accepted and supported by numerous staff and regular members, with the only thing still getting discussed being stats mostly unrelated to this topic, I have done so.

I hope this let's us know to be openminded towards different topics, even ones that we have banned and supposedly long concluded.

 

[Aeyu]

I agree with everything stated so far, but wouldn't the Universal Spirit Bomb also be 3-B?

 

[Ryukama]

Kep, The Everlasting, Dark649, Antvasima, Dragon, Red, PaChi2, Sera, SomebodyData, KamiYasha, ALRF, Promestein, Aeyu, AKM sama, SSG Julian, DMB 1, Megamangohan, Anonimoe7875, Ovrhide, Celestial Pegasus DBZMLP12345 and myself are fine with these changes.

I think 13 staff members and 9 regular members as opposed to 1 staff member disagreeing is a well enough consensus to accept this. Can I perform the changes?

It seems like the plan is Gogeta and Omega are 3-B, SSJ4 level characters are 3-C, everyone else is 4-A.