Dragon Ball Cosmology Revision

[OneRhasstyBoi]

he is not using the warp to go to another timeline, he is using it to go back along side beerus, nothing indicates that he is using the warp to go to the other timeline in the clip

It doesn’t matter if he uses Warp to go to a different timeline right there, he has to do it before Future Trunks and Mai go to the future or else Zamasu will still be alive and wrecking havoc and in the previous video, Whis didn’t use the Time Machine to travel to the future, or else he will be there with Trunks and Mai.

It’s in Ep 67, check it for yourself.

The only thing left that he is able to travel to the future with his own abilities, proving that he can travel to different universes does not disprove them being separated space-times.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

It doesn’t matter if he uses Warp to go to a different timeline right there, he has to do it before Future Trunks and Mai go to the future or else Zamasu will still be alive and wrecking havoc and in the previous video, Whis didn’t use the Time Machine to travel to the future, or else he will be there with Trunks and Mai.

The only thing left that he is able to travel to the future with his own abilities, proving that he can travel to different universes does not disprove them being separated space-times.

Plus the wiki already accepts Whis having the ability to travel on his own

 

[Omegabronic]

It doesn’t matter if he uses Warp to go to a different timeline right there, he has to do it before Future Trunks and Mai go to the future or else Zamasu will still be alive and wrecking havoc and in the previous video, Whis didn’t use the Time Machine to travel to the future, or else he will be there with Trunks and Mai.

yes it does matter, for you see warp is what whis uses to go to other universes in the main timeline, if you are not trying to prove anything about the warp, then what are you trying to prove?

The only thing left that he is able to travel to the future with his own abilities, proving that he can travel to different universes does not disprove them being separated space-times.

yes it does, since warp is just flight, which is impossible to use to go to another space time, just because whis can go to other timelines, doesn't mean that the warp can, specially when it is just flight

 

[Omegabronic]

Plus the wiki already accepts Whis having the ability to travel on his own

this is not the point tho?

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

this is not the point tho?

You’re saying he’s using a time machine to do it

 

[Omegabronic]

You’re saying he’s using a time machine to do it

now that i have the context, i see how this argument isn't much relevant, if there is no proof that he used the warp, then what is the point of the argument?

 

[OneRhasstyBoi]

yes it does, since warp is just flight, which is impossible to use to go to another space time, just because whis can go to other timelines, doesn't mean that the warp can, specially when it is just flight

Warp is just flight as in normal flight/space flight and then I ask for scans, where is the evidence? The only thing you brought up was some half-ass description from Chōzenshū 4 which was released 2 years before the events of Dragon Ball Super and it is also released around the same time as DBZ: Battle of Gods, a non canon movie btw.

This is not normal flight/space flight. If it was normal flight/space flight, Goku himself would suffocate and die because Saiyans can’t breath in the vacuum of space.
Besides, this is Warp in DBZ: Battle of Gods.
Which is normal flight/space flight cause there was star in the background.

 

[Omegabronic]

Warp is just flight as in normal flight/space flight and then I ask for scans, where is the evidence? The only thing you brought up was some half-ass description from Chōzenshū 4 which was released 2 years before the events of Dragon Ball Super and it is also released around the same time as DBZ: Battle of Gods, a non canon movie btw.

This is not normal flight/space flight. If it was normal flight/space flight, Goku himself would suffocate and die because Saiyans can’t breath in the vacuum of space.
Besides, this is Warp in DBZ: Battle of Gods.
Which is normal flight/space flight cause there was star in the background.

whis himelf describes it as flying with him agreeing with goku that if he was to pee, it would end up in spaceshowing that it is a physical flight

 

[RoyGundam]

whis himelf describes it as flying with him agreeing with goku that if he was to pee, it would end up in spaceshowing that it is a physical flight

It's actually Goku who thinks it would be him peeing in outer space, not Whiz. Whiz doesn't say anything about what would happen except that for strongly denying Goku's request

 

[Omegabronic]

It's actually Goku who thinks it would be him peeing in outer space, not Whiz. Whiz doesn't say anything about what would happen except that for strongly denying Goku's request

it is implied tho

 

[Vietthai96]

whis himelf describes it as flying with him agreeing with goku that if he was to pee, it would end up in spaceshowing that it is a physical flight

This is extremely bad argument, everything that move through the air, space, etc... can be considered as physical movement, even infinite speed and immeasurable speed is physical movement, dimensional travel and time travel too, when it involve movement, it mean physical. By this logic, i could debunk the notion of different timeline in DB because Time Machine also "fly"

 

[Theglassman12]

That’s not remotely close to the same argument. Dimensional travel is you literally being able to get to other dimensions through an ability. Speed has no factor there. Same with time travel as it as an ability has nothing to do with speed.

 

[RoyGundam]

it is implied tho

Not really. Goku is just guessing

 

[Vietthai96]

That’s not remotely close to the same argument. Dimensional travel is you literally being able to get to other dimensions through an ability. Speed has no factor there. Same with time travel as it as an ability has nothing to do with speed.

Not really, people can dimensional travel with speed which is mentioned on dimensional travel page, and time travel via sheer speed is at least immeasurable travelling speed. And lastly, speed can be considered as an ability of character

 

[Stefano4444]

They can still be tier 2C, as long as they're separated on a multiversal/5D axis.

So a verse's cosmology if reach 5D can directly prove that parallel universes are Low 2-C each?

 

[Reiner04]

So a verse's cosmology if reach 5D can directly prove that parallel universes are Low 2-C each?

Rather the distance between the universes have to be 5D strictly when are in the same timeline, but mentioning 5D is not necessarily needed. Verse can still show that gap between universes cannot be accessed via usual flights of character and that includes usual dimensional travel as well between.

But it being a default case comes with problems, such as all the verses who has concept of universe or timeline containing more than one bodies of space or realms will be upgraded to 2C when universal in size they're.

 

[Stefano4444]

Rather the distance between the universes have to be 5D strictly when are in the same timeline, but mentioning 5D is not necessarily needed. Verse can still show that gap between universes cannot be accessed via usual flights of character and that includes usual dimensional travel as well between.

So if parallel universes that can be reached via regular flying/speed (not counting Immensurable Speed), or with regular dimensional travel/teleportation, will disprove the universes be separated by space-time? Even if the verse cosmology had higher dimensional spaces?

So i guess even verses with massive cosmologies are not safe from the potential downgrade if parallel universes are accessible for non Immensurable Speed characters?

 

[KLOL506]

Rather the distance between the universes have to be 5D strictly when are in the same timeline, but mentioning 5D is not necessarily needed. Verse can still show that gap between universes cannot be accessed via usual flights of character and that includes usual dimensional travel as well between.

But it being a default case comes with problems, such as all the verses who has concept of universe or timeline containing more than one bodies of space or realms will be upgraded to 2C when universal in size they're.

DT said it doesn't have to be 5D to qualify. A larger 4D space encompassing the timelines would also work as per his word.

 

[Reiner04]

with regular dimensional travel/teleportation, will disprove the universes be separated by space-time?

Uh no, not teleportation or portal creation but physical dimensional travel is different thing. Dimensions/realms aren't necessarily always lies on multiversal/5D axis but they can still be within 3D space while still being separated from each other and enclosed. In that case, they must not accessible via 3D travels, even if that 3D travel includes physically dimensional travelling.

DT said it doesn't have to be 5D to qualify. A larger 4D space encompassing the timelines would also work as per his word.

Yeah, the main point here is that gap in fiction never gets described easily (either 5D or 4D), the reasoning to deduce if the universes are within same dimensional space are applicable, then they're not separate spacetime.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Vietthai96 read the page before you make assumptions like this. Nothing about this is mentioned to include speed, and read my comment, time travel as an ability. Did you forget the part where I highlight ability explain my point?

 

[KLOL506]

with regular dimensional travel/teleportation, will disprove the universes be separated by space-time?

No. Teleportation and portal creation are hax, they lack a distance component and thus by definition can never be speed. If anything, mandating teleportation/dimensional travel via portals will almost always prove the spatial separation of the two universes.

 

[pineappleman]

That’s not remotely close to the same argument. Dimensional travel is you literally being able to get to other dimensions through an ability. Speed has no factor there. Same with time travel as it as an ability has nothing to do with speed.

Are you arguing that all dimensional travel should be instantaneous?

 

[Reiner04]

Are you arguing that all dimensional travel should be instantaneous?

If it's not instantaneous or portal like hax where distance component aren't involved, then it's 3D movement for SDBs, cubes and will not account for spatial separation.

 

[pineappleman]

If it's not instantaneous or portal like hax where distance component aren't involved, then it's 3D movement for SDBs, cubes and will not account for spatial separation.

What's your criteria for distance component? People moving around while dimension traveling?

 

[Omegabronic]

This is extremely bad argument, everything that move through the air, space, etc... can be considered as physical movement, even infinite speed and immeasurable speed is physical movement, dimensional travel and time travel too, when it involve movement, it mean physical. By this logic, i could debunk the notion of different timeline in DB because Time Machine also "fly"

the time machine shows disapearing and then appearing again, with no proof of itself "flying" to another timeline, whis's warp is shown to be a physical flight, it may have some special properties to it, but it being flight at all is the problem since it is impossible to "fly" to another space time

Not really. Goku is just guessing

it is implied, whis doesn't disagrees with it, so we assume that goku is right until further evidence

 

[Omegabronic]

What's your criteria for distance component? People moving around while dimension traveling?

if you are taking time to get somewhere, and you describe your ability as flight, then you are crossing a distance physically, it is simple

 

[Reiner04]

What's your criteria for distance component? People moving around while dimension traveling?

if you are taking time to get somewhere, and you describe your ability as flight, then you are crossing a distance physically, it is simple

SBDs and cubes fly cross dimensions.

 

[pineappleman]

SBDs and cubes fly cross dimensions.

You didn't answer my question

 

[pineappleman]

if you are taking time to get somewhere, and you describe your ability as flight, then you are crossing a distance physically, it is simple

and neither did you

 

[Omegabronic]

and neither did you

how did i not? i am a little confused by what you are asking

 

[pineappleman]

how did i not? i am a little confused by what you are asking

if you are taking time to get somewhere, and you describe your ability as flight, then you are crossing a distance physically, it is simple

SBDs and cubes fly cross dimensions.

You've answered me as if I'm making a point concerning the SDBS and the Cubes, I have not yet. I'm asking about this:

If it's not instantaneous or portal like hax where distance component aren't involved, then it's 3D movement for SDBs, cubes and will not account for spatial separation.

Reiner said that dimensional travel is either instantaneous or portal like hax where distance component isn't involved. I'm asking what is their criteria for the distance component not being involved?

 

[Omegabronic]

You've answered me as if I'm making a point concerning the SDBS and the Cubes, I have not yet. I'm asking about this:

Reiner said that dimensional travel is either instantaneous or portal like hax where distance component isn't involved. I'm asking what is their criteria for the distance component not being involved?

oh ok, basically, if it is shown to be done with a type of movement, and they take time to get wherever they want to get, then distance would be involved, it is logical

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

This discussion is exactly why I don’t like how the speed aspect of the new standards is treated as a default. But anywho

Speed can be treated as evidence against separate space-times if it’s treated as finite speed right? Like if the characters clearly aren’t moving at infinite/immeasurable speeds and that it takes time to go between the universes?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

None of what's being brought up is a counter against Tier 2 cosmologies; dimensional travel is possible with finite speed and Executor is being the most level headed debater here when it comes to our Tier 2 and above policies. But it seems the other thread is where that's being debated now, so might as well stop spamming at least until that is concluded.

 

[AKUTO123]

I'm asking because I don't understand. what's the proof that DB universes are low 2C right now?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

None of what's being brought up is a counter against Tier 2 cosmologies; dimensional travel is possible with finite speed and Executor is being the most level headed debater here when it comes to our Tier 2 and above policies. But it seems the other thread is where that's being debated now, so might as well stop spamming at least until that is concluded.

Oh so the thread that’s discussing the tier 2 standards as a whole isn’t actually accepted or concluded yet?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@AKUTO123 They are stated to be different bodies of space, Universe 7 does contain the RoSaT which means other flows of time exist within some of the individual universes. And universes having the same flows of time isn't a counterargument against them being the same space-time continuums. And branching timelines can still be larger than Low 2-C sized and it's possible for there to be multiple Low 2-C structures within a "Timeline". Also, Executor elaborated saying that effecting/destroying multiple bodies of spaces that are universe sized individually while also effecting time and space can be 2-C.

@ProfessorKukui4Life Yeah, it's still on going and there have been circular arguments here and there but so far the majority votes seems to be in Executor's favor though DontTalkDT and AKM haven't commented on that thread yet.

 

[Omegabronic]

Universe 7 does contain the RoSaT which means other flows of time exist within some of the individual universes.

it doesn't, that was already accepted in this thread that is the whole reason this revision started, the rosat is not contained inside universe 7

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

And that was later refuted as just being outside the living universe + afterlife, not outside Universe 7. And it was exclusive to the Manga version of DBS at worst again.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

None of what's being brought up is a counter against Tier 2 cosmologies; dimensional travel is possible with finite speed and Executor is being the most level headed debater here when it comes to our Tier 2 and above policies. But it seems the other thread is where that's being debated now, so might as well stop spamming at least until that is concluded.

bro, close this topic until the other one is finished, to avoid spam, and when the other one is over, we'll open this one back up.