- 3,486
- 5,161
Well if Whis wanted Goku not to do it badly it could be because it’d get on Whis as well if you wanna think of it like that plus Goku shouldn’t be able to breathe in space
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Dragon Ball Cosmology Revision
- Thread starter Aachintya31
- Start date
-
- Tags
- dragon ball
- Status
- 3,486
- 5,161
Universes are Low 2-C by default and RoSaT
- 3,486
- 5,161
So RoSaT is considered within the macrocosm still?
- 628
- 1,157
Right, this is exactly where I wanted to get at. Toei Goku's Instant Transmission works in this exact way and so does the Kai Kai, we can see them physically travel in a movement during the teleport space and yet it's still considered a Dimensional Travel.
It's established that in this verse, this is how it works.
- 11,910
- 4,281
when? there is no evidence that it is inside the universe in the first place, the only guide that suggest this is contradicted, plus the way they use "universe" in dbs is aways refering to the whole macrocosm, plus people showing citations that show that the wish covered all of universe 7, not just the living universe, plus we don't have any evidence that the rosat was affected by time travel regardless if it is inside the universe or not
we threat both cosmologies as the same, it is an accepted thing, plus even without that all the other points still exist
- 11,910
- 4,281
this is why the warp is not just normal flight, it has special properties like the no need for air, but it is still a physical flight
said well "by default" the universes in db have several anti feats and showings that they are not space times, such as being all affected equally by time travel made in only one of them
i don't see how the rosat matters anymore
no
where is this shown? and as showed, there is a physical space separating them, they would only be travelling in that
which means that they aren't space times or completely separated dimensions and that they are in the same physical space, since it is not possible to cross dimensions with just movement
- 31,372
- 34,118
If we treat cosmologies the same, then even Beerus's initial feat would be 2-C via Toei statements. Many others brought up the RoSaT is located within the universe given the extreme consistency that destroying it or breaking out of it puts them right at the Lookout.
Also again, every single "Anti-feat" you brought up was NOT an anti-feat as me and Executor brought up thousands of time.
Also again, every single "Anti-feat" you brought up was NOT an anti-feat as me and Executor brought up thousands of time.
- 3,486
- 5,161
But I’m kinda interested in the scan that shows that it reached every realm
it’s dimensional travel not an anti feat towards the macrocosm
The RoSaT disproves the time travel anti feat
I heavily agree with this I’ve been trying to make this point as well I
- 3,486
- 5,161
I didn’t understand any of that
- 11,910
- 4,281
we threat DBS manga and anime as the same, toei we do not
yeah so? why would this prove that it is inside the universe when we are directly stated that it isn't?
being all affected by time travel even said time travel only happens in one is not an anti feat?
what scan are you asking?
yes it is when said dimensional travel is made via physical flight, i agreed that it was dimensional travel, but being flight is the problem
no it does not, there is no proof that it is affected by time travel at all, heck by the new standards it might not even classify as an different space time anymore
why does everyone think about toei cosmology? we thread both anime and manga of super as the same cosmology, not toei, why does everyone bring toei?
- 3,486
- 5,161
Dbs manga and anime aren’t canon to each other there’s no reason to assume the cosmologies are the same it’s legit the same for toei the toeiverse legit has basically the same cosmology as the normal dbs anime but the only difference is due to statements it’s actually accepted as seperate Space times
the rosat isn’t stated not to be in the universe it’s the opposite actually
the scan that shows that the wish covered all of universe 7
dimensional Travel that’s used via an ability called warp that’s been shown to be able to go to alternate timelines yes
well if it’s accepted as part of the macrocosm yes it would
because your logic is the same as using toei the events are literally different funny thing is the events of the dbz anime and dbz manga are closer than the events of the dbs manga and dbs anime
- 31,372
- 34,118
Statements from original manga and guidebooks apply to both sure, but DBS manga statements shouldn't apply to DBS Anime
For one, why is DBS Manga the same as DBS Anime when there are a bunch of demonstrated differences? Second, if it's inside the Lookout which is inside Universe 7 then it is inside Universe 7; case and point.
Yes, that is not an anti-feat as Executor, AKM, and many others have said. It just means timelines are expansive. Also, none of the timelines are technically "Effected" per say as in rewritten, but rather it's more accurate said more branching timelines are birthed as a result.
- 7,486
- 7,677
Is the OP up to date with the current agreements so far?
- 9,982
- 10,819
No, agreement: @Theglassman12 , @Planck69 , @Maverick_Zero_X
Disagree: @DarkDragonMedeus , @Antvasima
- 7,486
- 7,677
Thank you, but were any modifications done to the proposal's premise up to now?
- 9,982
- 10,819
Yeah, the new things were brought up in the thread and with their counter arguments.
SDBs, Cubes, whis all can fly cross dimensions, universes via 3D dimensional flight, so universes aren't spatially separated.
Counter arguement: it is a not normal flight and shouldn't be treated as a confirmation. Dimensional travel are haxes that specifically made for Crossing dimensions.
Also @Executor_N0 brought up a structure suggestion in which even spatially separated is enough to argue that cosmology is 2C by being serviced by single time dimension which will or is being discussed in tier 2 revision thread. Until then, the thread is on hold.
- 11,910
- 4,281
well, they are currently, this is how it is currently, this was a thing even before the last thread that made the rosat not part of universe 7
story and featwise? yeah there is, but cosmology wise? not so much, the logic is that both are equally canon the the z manga, what one does cosmologywise retroactively applies to the z manga, which in turn applies to the other since the z manga is canon to both
it isn't inside the lookout, the lookout only has a door with a portal to it, if you destroy the door, them there is no way to get in the rosat
this is a more extradiordinary interpretation rather then they all simply sharing the same time but not the same space, plus the fact that what separates the universes is clearly not a higher dimension but a normal cosmos also suggests that they aren't individual space times
explain what you mean, i don't think i understood
if it has statements about cosmology not said in the dbs anime, and if it doesn't have anything connecting both(such as how the z manga connects both dbs anime and dbs manga) then it would be a different cosmology, simple
yes it is, we talked about this in this thread in the series it is never said to be part of the universe, but a completely separated dimension closed off of everything outside of it
there is two, firstly here where it is said that he will become the strongest outside of the "gods themselves" he uses the world "gods" as in plural, the living universe only has one god in it, beerus, suggesting that it is also talking about the other realms such as the afterlife and the kaioshin realm and the gods that are inside of the said realms, and this the oracle fish says that the wish will shift the balance of universe 7, and that the strongest in the universe 7(which sugest that it is talking about granola and his wish) will arrive, suggesting that all of the universe 7 is included in the wish
warp is physical flight, it has never been shown to be able to go to alternate timelines
(good thing that it isn't part of the macrocosm then) no it wouldn't, a separated time flow is not enough to be considered a space time anymore, but if it was, there is still no proof that it was affected regardless of it being part of the macrocosm or not
it isn't in the slightest, the toei continuity is not canon the the manga of db, not is it canon to anything that it is canon to the manga of db, both dbs manga and anime are considered equally canon to the db manga, so their changes retroactively aplies to the db manga, which aplies to the other since the db manga is canon to both, such conection doesn't exist with the toei continuity
not even close
- 7,486
- 7,677
@Aachintya31
Can you please revise your OP to include all the current arguments for the proposal?
Can you please revise your OP to include all the current arguments for the proposal?
- 31,372
- 34,118
Even Toei has some consistent cosmology stuff similar to DBS and guidebooks have been consistent for both versions; only difference so far is Toei describes afterlife as having a different flow of time and/or separated by time and space.
That still doesn't dismiss the fact that someone breaking or exiting the RoSaT takes them straight to the Look Out's locations; making it connected to U7 is the most logical interpretation. Plus, it still exists within side the Timeline.
Well Executor already pointed out that the opposing interpretation is knit picking at best. And none of that is still anti-feats.
I'm pretty sure you already heard of the grandfather paradox theory? About killing your grandfather effecting time and space to the point of you never being born? It wouldn't quite change history of the already existing timeline because when one travels back in time, they aren't going to a time period within your own timeline, but rather the time period of a new timeline and that timeline goes down a new path. Like when Trunks went back in time to warn Goku about the Androids, it didn't change history of his own world but rather formed a new timeline where Goku never died of a heart virus. Also, sometimes a simple action creates multiple timelines in a single move; Beerus created a timeline when he erased Zamasu in the main timeline. And Whis also mentioned an already existing timeline where his and Mai's loved ones are still alive where they are taken to by Whis after their old timeline was erased.
- 9,982
- 10,819
- 9,982
- 10,819
I mean, is there anything that stopping from single universe to be 2C? I don't think there is any. This is perfect time that things gets corrected. We have toei cosmology as a side stuff. We have @Executor_N0 points. Rules aren't something that cannot be wrong, Toei cosmology has been changed already.
- 2,127
- 1,726
- Thread starter
- #623
i'll do it in a moment.
Edit : @Firestorm808 i have updated the OP. Nothing much was added because most of the arguments are circular
Last edited:
- 12,116
- 6,084
I think these rules shouldn't even exist with so many declarations, we have three Universes declared within the macrocosm, like hell, Makai, and heaven.
- 12,116
- 6,084
in the timelines mention of having totally different history, as well as different time flow, one timeline does not affect another and vice versa.
Last edited:
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,053
- 5,983
it has been accepted and concludeed and actually applied already
I don't know what you saw, but the thread is actually concluded already and the FAQ has been updated, we were trying to create a separate page for Space-time continuums and do the formatting of it, Executor asked if he could comment either way and I said it is fine, Executor points has to do with the physical travel aspect and how we deal with the universes and time, but that as a whole does not affect the purpose of the thread.
And Donttalk was part of the thread from the beginning and was the one who applied the changes to the FAQ.
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,053
- 5,983
Anyway to reiterate I know nothing about DB but, according to the current standard, since normal 3-D physical travel is possible, without the use of any portal or teleportations or the likes and also the fact that time travel affect the whole 12 universes, they are not spatio-temporally separate.
Also this thread has gone for too long already and you guys are just going around in circles, so I will be unfollowing this now
Also this thread has gone for too long already and you guys are just going around in circles, so I will be unfollowing this now
- 9,982
- 10,819
Anyway, as this crt is based of cosmological revision and we already have everything at hands and basically what @Executor_N0 brought up about single time Dimension servicing every universes and Dimensions is something I brought up in my very second crt here on vsbw which was basically me interpreted the explanation of @DontTalkDT . So, we can make single universe 2C, we already composite dragonball cosmology. Universe can be 2C..
- 12,116
- 6,084
is a single DB Universe 2-C now? to be more exact, einer, the other 12 Universes also contain afterlife, actually all 12 Universes and including other timelines
- 5,703
- 3,230
They should'vd been 2-C from the start, lol
- 9,982
- 10,819
- 12,116
- 6,084
I think so too, there are so many proofs for 2-C, every time this is discussed it turns into a huge bullshit and there is always a discussion rule.
- 12,116
- 6,084
So, I'm going to call the two administrators who were here for this to be applied.
- 9,982
- 10,819
There is no rule now. Rosat has been eliminated. There is nothing about the universes can be done. What will be applied to universes can be equally applied to Dimensions, come to think of it, mortal realm is already referred as "universe", everything is at place. Cosmology is composite. We just have to upgrade the universes and then timeline eventually will stay same. Any other logic will be just came into question and won't fit without RoSaT.
- 12,116
- 6,084
I understand, the characters now that go on to destroy macrocosm of universe 7 and among others being 2-C?
did the manga characters also become 2-C as well or will it remain 3-A?
- 9,982
- 10,819
Let's wait for this to be concluded, characters are different thing.
- 3,486
- 5,161
Nah because In BOG the condensed energy ball was omnidirectional and was gonna destroy it basically instanteously so time is already in the equation unlike the manga
- 12,116
- 6,084
now it all makes sense, at least the anime will be updated, I think it's good.
- Status
